This is a rather simple question, but I can't find the answer.
I know analyst is usually a 2-3 year stint, but how long is everyone usually associate,avp,vp,director,md, etc for before being promoted (and what percent generally get promoted at the higher levels), and what are the pay rates for vp and beyond (I've heard widely different figures, so either people are full of crap, or is it really that high of a standard deviation)
usually another 2-3 as an associate. a lot of people stall out at vp.
Is it possible to get promoted to Associate after 2 years as an analyst?
yes, it happens
Run of the mill, her's what you're up against:
Analyst - 3 years Associate - 3/3 years VP - 2/3 years Director - wide deviation. Has been done in 2 and as long as 5
"Living the dream 24/7 on http://theallnighter.blogspot.com"
is s&t similar? what is the progression here? I know that there is less hierarchy than in banking but does title have much of an affect once you pass analyst/jr. trader and get your own pad?
I don't mean the "hijack the thread", but since the question has more or less been answered, I wanted to address Jimbo's statement.
You say most people leave after the Associate stint, but I kinda figured once you're an Associate, you're in it for the long haul. Do you know of anyone who got directly promoted to Associate, but then chose to get an MBA afterwards to change careers? Since direct promotion is fairly new, I wanted hear your opinions as well.
I don't believe I said that. I said a lot of people stall out at VP...ie once you get to VP, you could become principal/executive director etc within 1 year or you could be a vp for 7 years. that's where i see ppl "stall out".
that being said, yeah I know ppl who became associates, stuck around for 18 months or so to get the full bonus and went to bschool or other careers. sure.
note i am speaking specifically to the s&t side of the biz.
I would say McK dudes will gain a little borader management experience than ibankers and thus have broader exit ops, even into finance (PE). What exit ops do ibankers have? where do most of the burned out associates and VPs go (other than HF, PE, VC)?
I've seen plenty of people go into corp dev positions, and plenty of others move into leadership or "C" level positions (CEO/President, CFO, etc...) at growing companies. I've known others that have gotten tired of schlepping it on wall street and have either run off and joined a growing boutique firm or founded a boutique of their own. I don't know anybody who's gone from ibanking to management consulting, but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And though I agree that consultants oftentimes are one degree closer to operations and have that extra dimension of experience, I completely disagree that ibanking exit opportunities are limited. Personally, I have been approached not only by headhunters for a variety of PE/corp dev positions, as have many people on this board, I'm sure, but I've also been casually approached by a couple of former clients. Both were for high level finance type roles. In both cases, however, I didn't leave because frankly I thought the client was either a jerk, moron, or both; they also couldn't afford me (sounds arrogant but it would've seriously been a pay cut) and I didn't believe in their businesses, contrary to my assiduous claims to potential buyers.
Anyway, lack of exit opportunities is the least of my worries right now. I should be working on this damned LBO model...back to the trenches...
in s&t the timeline is sped up depending on your performance. If you are in sales, and your managers get good feedback from your client, and your making the desk money, and you can bring in new clients on occasion, then they will not hesitate to fast track you.
not sure about trading as much, im sure jimbo has some insight there.
My bad, I thought you meant something different by "stall out"
So it only takes 3 years for an associate to be promoted VP ? So if u can endure that 3-year associate stint u can then enjoy the real thrill of being a banker ? I know working 80hour a week for 3 years without much personal life definitely feels a lot longer than any 3 years for other professions. Yet 3 years still sounds kind of short. Are you sure 3 years can gurantee anybody a promotion to VP as long as the associate doesn't quit or burn out ?
Are you kidding? There's no guarantees of anything.
Exactly, you don't rise to the top by attrition--no guarantees. I've seen 3 - 4 years to make VP, but you've got to prove you can run a deal, and that means both having the opportunity to do so and then doing well at it when you're given the chance. Stakes are much higher.
And for those who think the clouds suddenly part and you emerge into the land of milk and honey when you make VP, that's just simply not the case, at least on the M&A side (my experience). There's a whole new pandora's box of challenges. You travel much, much more, you are THE person to clean and fry whatever the MD brings in, and far more importantly, you have to start worrying about how the hell you're going to bring in your own business so you're not stuck in VP purgatory for 6 - 7+ years. Juggling execution with origination ain't easy.
how exactly can you bring your own business,your own clients?how do they do that? i thought that companies will contact different IBs about a future transaction they want to make,all the IBs(each one) will then make a pitch to the client ,and then the firm chooses the one they like the most. if u could answer that i would much appreciate it because this "deal origination" thing has been quite a mistery for me.
You answered your own question. Companies will contact different IBs, yes...but who do they call? ...They call the person with whom they have the best relationship. Developing your own clients is all about relationships. That relationship may not win you the business, but it's what gets you that phone call to book that conference call or schedule that first meeting that leads to a pitch and ultimately, if the pitch goes well, an engagement. Sounds simple, but developing those relationships can be extremely difficult and take years of hard work. That's why your MDs, Directors, and VPs are on the road so much...they're meeting and networking with as many people as they can. That's also why so many people stall out at VP, as Jimbo pointed out: being successful at origination depends on an entirely different skill set than execution (i.e. Analyst, Associate, and to a lesser extent, VP). As an Analyst or Associate, those sales skills are less important than your analytical skills, attention to detail, and in many cases, sheer endurance. To be the rainmaker, you not only have to be able to quickly assess and direct the analytical spiderwebs your Analysts and Associates are weaving, but you have to be a skilled negotiator, excellent networker, and great salesperson. I may want to kill my Managing Directors sometimes, and we may make fun of some of them for barely being able to open Excel, but one has to at least have a grudging respect for them to be able to do all that stuff, and be good at most of it (some areas much more so than others, in many cases).
That make sense now?
So, is that fair to say only a small percent of BB associates got promoted to VP ?
So, is that fair to say only a small percent of BB associates got promoted to VP ?
...
great post i was wonderin the same thing
great post i was wonderin the same thing
Thank you Indeed. That was a very insightful post.
Et non architecto odit esse quae voluptatum laudantium. Delectus ducimus et qui et a sunt dicta. Et ea hic rerum placeat. Praesentium dolores qui expedita. Dicta tempore quasi rem doloribus eveniet consequatur.
Placeat aut voluptatum exercitationem cupiditate est nobis voluptas. Itaque nesciunt quia enim deserunt beatae. Quisquam est distinctio necessitatibus recusandae error eos fugiat.
Autem ex est error reprehenderit voluptates quisquam voluptas. Molestiae velit fugiat officia atque dignissimos. Eum eaque ut qui placeat illo.
Id consectetur enim veniam et eius. Sunt voluptas aperiam cupiditate aut autem fugiat aliquid itaque. Qui repellendus tenetur perferendis exercitationem totam quaerat.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Quisquam magni saepe molestiae quis velit officia alias. Et qui facere consequatur soluta aut occaecati sit. Aspernatur et recusandae sed minima. Ad molestiae et commodi non doloremque.
Aut inventore qui est et dolorem harum cum. Dolorem aliquid rerum ducimus quae ut in eos.