Reasons for Rejection
Hello,
I've recently come across a slew of rejections in my search for a SA IBD position, and am trying everything I can to find out why.
In one case, I had an OCR 1st round interview with a MM where I answered every question (fit and technical) correctly, and even saw the interviewing noting "Good ...(ineligible)" a couple times. He even started selling the firm to me, and the interview turned casual. I'd also networked with the firm and even had a phone call with the interviewer himself the week before, so he was well aware of my genuine interest in the firm. Well I found out that I won't be moving to the superday.
In another case, I networked with a BB so well that I was invited directly to the superday and skipped 1st round. It got off to a bad start - the associate who was interviewing me first forgot about me and my interview was cut to less than 15 mins full of technicals. But the rest, including with a MD and VP, went well. The MD even kept commenting how I'm smart and that I should be proud of my resume. Yet I was dinged.
I'm sure that that there were some things that I could improve, but I just can't figure out what. If I'm answering all the questions well, what are other reasons that I could be dinged? I try to smile and have a good posture. Should I try harder and act all bubbly and joyful? Can something like appearing tired, or not sounding excited be enough for a ding?
Or, what are some reasons that one candidate stands out above the others?
If anyone has any advice, I'd really appreciate it.
Thank you
as I mentioned many times in other post, I was was one of the lead for analyst recruiting when I was in banking so I had the unfortunate task of dinging people. TBH, schools have gotten so good at prepping their student and info is so easily available these days anyway that dinging someone often isn't because the candidate has shown any deficiencies during the process, but simply because other candidates were better. I know it's not the answer people want to hear as it's hard to compensate and improve, but that's the reality when you are recruiting for such competitive jobs.
that may or may not apply to your case, it's hard to tell. I would insist on getting feedback though. If HR got back to you, feel free to email directly one of the banker you met during the process.
Thanks for the insight.
So what makes a candidate "better"? Is it their resume, GPA, school (meaning that even in superdays, it comes down to the resume)? Do they just give off a cooler vibe?
Once you get to the interview, people are more or less on equal footing, barring extremes. "Better" candidates mostly refers to interview performance I think. And yes, if you're answering everything "well" or "right", it could be a matter of not appearing enthusiastic/energetic/etc. I would caution you that trying to fake this too much will come off as worse than only showing it a bit though.
Thanks. What is the best way to get honest feedback from my interviewers? Whenever I ask, they give the standard "we thought highly of you but the pool was exceptionally strong" etc responses.
Often HR will prohibit bankers from giving very specific feedback. Email an interviewer you thought you clicked with and ask to set up a follow up call during which you can solicit candid feedback about your interview - may not work but probably your best shot
I have done countless interviews. I have never once told anyone that you 'should be proud of your resume'. That is extraordinarily patronizing.
Something was wrong. I couldn't tell you what.
Yes, I was told that at the end of the interview and felt immediately that something wasn't right. The same interviewer (a MD) also said he can tell within 2 minutes of an interview whether a candidate has what it takes.
When you were interviewing, if a few candidates were close to each other, what pushed one over the edge?
I've never seen a tie in an interview.
It may come off as harsh, but simply put, your competitors did better interviews than you did. These days, answering questions correctly simply isn't enough. You have to find a way to make yourself stand out somehow.
Thanks everyone. I agree that it comes down to the intangibles, like going to the same school or a shared hobby. If you don't mind, do you have any examples from your own interviews or someone that you know that led to an offer?
Could it be that I'm just too boring/plain in interviews?
I am sorry to say it but it also comes down to quite a good amount of luck, especially when the pool of candidates is very strong. A right word, a smile, a bad lunch, there are so many factors that could have influenced the final decision. For instance, very often candidates develop a connection with their interviewers, by coming from the same college, or because they lived in the same neighborhood or went to Australia etc... If you are not an exceptional candidate or a very poor one, chances are it will come down to almost nothing. Keep in mind that you are also competing with msc students, with more experience.
I can tell you that I had 5 interviews i ended up loosing at final round because the candidates have been felt strongly, and when asked feedback it was always a stupidity. E.G. during the test I used a manual input vs a formula (moved fwd at the stage cos of other skills but dinged at final) the reason of that being they were unable to perceive the quality of my modelling skills. Another, by the fact I answer a final question less indirectly, showing lack of determination ans so on. Ultimately, it's about your skills and what the people in front of you think can bring on board for the next 24 months, because as Analyst that your life expectancy at the firm. Do I have to spend "too" much time training him/her, is it a realistic goal? say majority of clients in Central Europe with focus on utilities that you speak 5 languages all west European and have TMT experience is not in their interest. and yes also luck.
It could also be because of your terrible English skills.
HAHAHAH true it may be! Still better poor English skills and contributing to the topic the writing just to get banana points!
At interviews, I think it's definitely an "intangible" thing. For me, I genuinely felt that in terms of pure profile, I was weaker than all the other guys in second-round with me. However, I think I showed:
a) genuine interest in working at that specific location for that specific firm (I did this by asking unique questions @ the end of 1 of my interviews with some EDs) b) showed I was legitimately DIFFERENT and how that trait made me USEFUL c) the "cool" vibe (I'm not cool by any means, but I really gelled with the associates I had met)
I've yet to do the bulk of my OCR interviews but from what I've seen in my peers who received/did not receive interviews during the accelerated schedule, when everyone has their technicals down pat, it all comes down to confidence. Some of the people who accepted offers were less strong on paper, but they were all very confident. I also saw some people who I thought would be shoe-in's for BB IBD who are still jobless and will have to do OCR with me. You weren't a nervous wreck during your interview & had politically correct/polished answers. That's great. That's what got you the superdays, some people don't even get there so good job. During the superday however, you have to feel like a real person, not like a rehearsed news anchor that's trying to not step on anyone's toes. During first rounds, most people are nervous wrecks and those are the easiest to ding. As long as you can keep it together and don't choke your technicals, you'll probably be off to a superday. At the superday however, everyone can give the "right" answer. That's really your new baseline. Everyone is polished, everyone can more or less get all the technicals (you'd be surprised how many people choke some but still get offers) but some people will say a couple of riskier things as they start talking to more senior people. They loosen up. They embrace who they are and just go for it. They will risk not being "theoretically perfect" so to speak and just be themselves. During high-stakes interviews, that takes a surprising amount of confidence and belief in yourself. And being confident when everyone else is trying to be "correct" goes a long way towards helping you stand out. Don't get me wrong, it might get them dinged at some banks, but it also dramatically increases their chances of them connecting strongly to at least one MD during one superday. Again, not everyone will connect to your "true self", but no one will connect to you if you're just saying the "right things".
This is extremely accurate. It's hard to be confident as a student when your friends are getting offers and you're coming close, but don't get there. However, confidence is paramount to getting a job offer. I remember seeing candidates in interviews who didn't seem to care one way or another if they got the offer (not in a cocky way; they just knew that whether they got this particular offer or not, they'd still crush recruiting) and who genuinely had fun with the process. Like wintercoat said, they were genuine, even if their answers weren't by-the-book. Even if you get your last choice offer, knowing that you'll go somewhere is all it takes to get that initial boost of confidence for later/better interviews.
Well said.
Awesome comment. Especially the "and being confident when everyone else is trying to be "correct" goes a long way towards helping you stand out."
^ that quote perfectly captures the core idea.
Also all 3 points that lakesoup said.
Many students at superday had similar if not better resumes than I did. For the role I was interviewing for, I came from a semi-non-target school. To flesh out lakesoup's points, I stood out by:
("gelling well") getting along very well with the professionals with whom I sat next to for lunch/dinner socials - an MD, a new associate. Be curious about the person; learn about them as you would if it was Freshman Orientation day again, and youre looking to make friends. (Be mindful of boundaries ofc)
("genuinely interested...in the firm") by combing through their website. I knew about the firm's initiatives inside and outside of my division / department, and how each of them showed the firms continued commitment. And, I always wanted to know more, by asking many professionals I met at those socials. I even said one detail I personally liked about the firm and it so happened that my interviewer who had been with them for 10+ years (5+ at my location) later admitted he didn't know, and it was on the website. They'll know more than you but not every detail about the firm.
("different trait") by having unique hobbies / sports / extracurriculars that I was really passionate about. 2 of 3 of my superday interviewers asked me about them, and I went in describing a very memorable time. It was easily 3 minutes primarily me talking but the passion and imagery pulled it through ("show don't tell"). The other story was how I spent some vacation time learning how to model on my own and working with a team for a case comp. Others came from schools that taught that skill; I turned it around to show initiative.
("being correct vs a real person"). Having a few points on your resume you can talk about energetically helps, and I carried the energy to each of my interviews. My host was a great guy whom I again, tried to get to know more like a new classmate or roommate rather than my potential executioner.
Also, being courteous goes a long way. HR plans socials but are sometimes forgotten. When it was time to sit down for dinner at the restaurant (after standing and socializing), I noticed the two people from HR had given up their seats for the interviewees. I went and got them two chairs. Sometimes, its the little things.
Agree with some of the above.
Typically, the best way to get yourself noticed in a positive way is to show genuine interest in the work and role.
2 concrete examples:
GPA? School? Internship Experience?
Confidence is the most important thing, but it is reiterated over and over in the above so I'll skip. For non targets, passion is the second most important attribute. You have to show that you know your stuff and what you are getting into, and you are genuinely interested in it. You can achieve that through "why bank x" questions and Q&A sessions. If you really think about it, you are competing against kids who are going to schools with a small finance network, but they are interested in finance so much that they networked with 100+ people, did X,Y,Z internships, and have been following the market extensively. You need to give your interviewers a solid reason why they should hire you over these kids. If they are going to choose you over kids from Harvard or crazy go-getters, it'd better be for a damn good reason.
I feel you man. I was someone who worked hard to get interviews, and managed to make it to a lot of superdays just to ultimately come out with nothing. It's extremely tough, especially when you've worked so hard and aren't messing up any technicals and giving seemingly good behavioral answers.
I think what everyone said was true, mostly about confidence and luck. Looking back, I would say I played it really safe- I didn't say anything that would fuck me over but didn't say anything good either. The other part being luck is also true- maybe the interviewer was in the same frat as another kid, or competed in the same marathon (both real examples of what happened to other candidates when I was interviewing for the super day). You just gotta keep your head up and keep at it.
Thanks everyone for your inputs. And I'm sorry to hear that @kstyles.
During the interview, how can I exude confidence?
Should I lean forward with arms on table or lean back? Should I talk louder than usual? Anything else to consider?
The fact that you're asking these kinds of questions is a huge flag. Being natural and relaxed instead of locking yourself into one posture or tone is what you're trying to go for. From your posts, I can already get a strong sense of what you were dinged for. Do some mock interviews with friends and get their feedback - it'll be the most helpful.
"I answered every fit question correctly"
"Is it their resume, GPA, school "
I get two things from this. You may not even realize this, but you may come off as pre-rehearsed or robotic in interviews. Answering fit questions isn't about a "right or wrong" it is about answering and actually seeing a positive response from your interviewer. I suggest doing a mock and actually coming to terms with how your answers may sound "canned" and then trying to approach an interview less rehearsed sounding. This is what true confidence comes off as...remember, this is an interview/conversation...not a speech.
Two, I take it you are from a low/non-target and you likely don't have as high of a GPA as you think you need. The low/non-target part does not hurt as much as having a low GPA. As previous commenters have said, candidates are getting better at prepping and smaller things make the difference. And sometimes, when it comes down to it, many firms would have a 3.9er that does well in interviews to a 3.5ers.
You can't change the latter, but you can change the former!
I usually caught myself sitting at the edge of a chair, agitating to answer the question ASAP. Whenever it happened, I sat back and took a deep breath. It really helped me be more confident and answer the questions as if I'm talking to my classmate.
I have been trying for 3 years to get a summer internship/Graduate job and still did not get it. Again this year I got rejected from most BB banks already and my chances to land something are close to zero.
The closest time I have been from getting something was a month ago for an off-cycle internship at MS, but I guess that other candidates did better than I did since I have not heard back from them after the last round. I even sent an e-mail and no one replied (yet).
I guess that I should try now with small boutiques...
By the way, my resume is quite normal, my grades are too and I guess that although I tend to do things better than the average person, I do not really stand out in terms of IQ.
Good luck man.
Sorry to hear that. Did you also end up going to superdays but not getting anything? Or did you have trouble landing interviews in the first place?
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