Return to BAML for junior SA offer or accept GS offer?

Did sophomore SA at BAML in one of M&A/FSG/LevFin and was able to get an offer at GS industrials. That's all I'm saying to protect my privacy.

I really liked the team at BAML, and I wasn't able to get a good feel at GS from the interactions I had. They were nothing special. I am not sure if I want to exit to PE or do A2A. Both options are equally appealing to me at this point.

I'm leaning toward taking the BAML return, but I can't help but feel strange since the alternative is Goldman fucking Sachs. Anybody know what the conversion rate fro GS Ind is?

 

I know BAML makes sophomores sign for 2 summers (not sure if all), so be careful with jumping if you have already committed to another summer there. What a lot of people tend to not realize is liking your team/group and having a good culture is crucial (which you said). Why give that up and risk pissing people off for a small jump from BAML to GS

 

I wasn't given an offer for two summers. Everybody from my school who's done BAML sophomore SA has returned though.

 

Dude GS hands down, any bank feeds you all this tea about culture and get you all buddy buddy with your team over the summer, don't fall for the wining and dining, both are large investment banks with hundreds of analysts. Ultimately the value of a BB is the brand name, so if you have an opportunity to take debatably the best brand name, just take it. The short term virtual relationships you've formed this summer aren't as deep as it feels.

 

You have a point. How much weight would you put on interest in the specific group? I had a strong interest in my BAML group going into the sophomore SA, but I can't really say that Industrials sounds exciting if you know what I mean, so I was wondering how much weight to give that.

In addition, I really am considering A2A as equally as PE, so I'm not sure how much the difference in prestige would matter long term.

 

I think you should go with BofA. All the three groups you mentioned are the top groups, and if it’s M&A, I think that’s a really great group culturally. I have spoken to quite a few people this recruiting season and have really liked it.

For GS Industrials, I have heard that there are some pretty sharp elbows and it’s pretty rough culturally, and it’s not their top coverage group. that said it’s still GS.

I would go with BofA though, it’s a great organisation and you would definitely have a leg up over ur classmates because of the time spent and the trust built. You’ll be placed on better teams and so in and so forth.

 

Not sure if this is possible at BBs, I know someone who did it at smaller boutiques but it’s worth a shot.

Explain to your team at BAML that you really enjoyed the summer and see yourself working with the group in the long run, but explain that you want to just get a different experience the next summer. Then work at GS the next summer and see if BAML would be able to fast track you for FT recruiting if you don’t like GS (or don’t get a return). Best of both worlds because you then get to try out both groups and see what you like best. If the people at BAML like you, it’s likely they could put you on a short list for FT recruiting and you can land that offer.

 

because banks hate to be rejected, especially IB groups that are bigger than 20 to 30 guys.

 

I would say take GS. For A2A I'd rather be at GS Industrials, even if its not a top group there its still GS and being a GS partner is a great gig (better than MD at most banks, its a pretty special class of people). For exits, I would suspect LevFin at BAML would be better than at most non-TMT / FIG groups at GS (I'm not sure about Sponsors or M&A, but M&A is M&A and Sponsors generally has good exits at most BBs), but GS is still GS and if you're unsure about exiting and are considering A2A go GS.

I would like to say that culture matters -- it is better to be a top analyst at BAML, for A2A and exits, than an average analyst at GS. So if you really love your team at BAML give that consideration. It is easy to dismiss culture when you haven't worked in finance, but these are people you will work with for ~75-80 hours per week for two years if you go full-time, so you want to get along with them (and if you don't, you'll hate your life)

 

Do you know what the FTO rate is for GS Ind? That's really my biggest concern. I heard GS overhires, so I don’t want to somehow end up getting fucked with no offer.

 

GS historically has a lower return offer rate than other banks. Barclays, BAML, Citi, CS, MS traditionally had 80%+ offer rates (BAML used to be lower but has raised it recently), JPM and GS lower. I can't really give exact numbers but I had a friend in a non-Industrials group at GS with a ~60% return offer rate. Just by rep though it can be pretty low

 

Just to add another perspective, if you're interested in A2A, then its hard not to consider pay since you'll potentially be in IB longer than most your peers. Goldman is famous for the Goldman discount. It's easy to say that its worth it for great exit opps, but if you're looking for the a2a promote then the pay difference starts to accumulate.

 

Yeah I've heard about the GS discount. From what I understand, it doesn't go away until like MD? Not sure if I would make it that far... Honestly my biggest concern is the GS FTO rate for SA, since I've heard they over hire. That's the main reason I am leaning BAML. If it weren't as big of a concern, I'd probably pick GS.

 

BAML. Being a summer in the same group for 2 years in a row is special, especially in a top group at BAML which you are. You'll build strong relationships and trust because of that

 

GS is a risk tbh. I'd like to see what offer rates are like for this summer to rally gauge how BBs are looking at the economic outlook for 2021. Anyways, as people have already said, they over hire a lot. Returning for a second summer seems like the best option and those groups are great. You gain trust and people are more likely to remember you. It makes it easier to network and as long as you perform even harder next summer you'll have a good shot at getting a FTO. It also shows them that you really like the bank. I think you'd have to royally fuck up for them to not take you after your junior year Sa

 

Stick with BAML. This is how I would think about it:

Past a certain level of prestige--which a top group at BAML certainly exceeds--you will get opportunities from HH's at every PE firm you want. There will be no tangible difference b/w PE opportunities between a top group at BAML vs. GS IND.

Contrary to what others have posted above, your relationships from this summer should help you immensely moving forward into next summer and into FT. If you did a good job during SA, chances are the senior bankers will remember you and "take care" of you moving forward (staffed on better deals, better bonuses come FT should you choose to return, etc.). Compare this to what could potentially happen at GS. You said yourself you have no real feel of the culture of the group, so you'd be gambling.

Lastly, I know nothing about your candidate profile, but suspect that you can land a better offer than GS Ind. should you choose to switch banks FT. Going from a top BAML group into an EB/top group at BB should be doable for someone with your experience (BB as a sophomore). Have seen plenty of undergrads with similar profiles eventually land at top, top groups after graduation.

 

Do you mean recruit for EBs for FT?

Edit: Nvm. I didn't read thew whole comment before asking that lol.

 

Yes, and it wouldn't really be for exits (BAML is good enough for that). Given your interest in staying in IB long-term, you might be better off at an EB where the teams are leaner, there's a clearer path upwards, and the compensation increase is actually meaningful over a few years. Those would be the potential benefits over staying at your BAML group for FT.

 

Just for some perspective coming from someone who gave up junior offer from baml and jpm to stay at my lower-tier BB, in hindsight it was the best decision I could’ve made especially given the remote nature of this summer. you never know when the next black swan event would occur, and being at a new bank without an established network, u could be left hanging and facing the tragedy of graduating without an IB job. I’m generally not a risk-averse person but covid really changed my perspective. Also if you like the people at baml your 80h workweek won’t be as miserable. Genuinely don’t think you could go wrong with boa especially if u could make it into the stronger product groups such as levfin. Hope this helps :)

 
Most Helpful

I think BAML is a no brainer, for the following reasons:

  1. You already have established some rapport with the team there, having done your sophomore summer in the group. Assuming they've let you come back to the same group for junior summer, the conversion rate to a full time role should be nearly 100%. At GS who knows, you could get a return offer but you could not.

  2. You've worked with the BAML team, like the culture and there are going to be no surprises. I can't emphasize enough how important this is. Working with good people makes a huge difference to your overall experience as a banker. I would take good culture over a slight edge in prestige any day. GS Industrials for what it's worth, is one of the toughest groups at the firm, specifically known to have bad culture. I know a number of people who have gone through that group, and it absolutely lives up to its reputation.

  3. Your exits at one of the BAML groups you mentioned are going to be more or less the exact same as from GS Industrials. On top of that, you'll get more internal support to recruit (the people I've known at GS Industrials were incredibly close-mouthed about their recruiting and literally one of them wouldn't even tell me where he was heading, that much fear of his group finding out) and better culture = more time to focus on recruiting, work with the 2nd years to understand the process, ability to interview without making countless doctor appointment excuses etc.

Congrats on 2 great opportunities, it's a nice choice to have to make.

 

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