Returning to Work & George Floyd Riots

Seems like we won't be returning to offices as the riots will likely stretch out the protest? Looking outside my window and it isnt pretty.

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Comments (249)

May 31, 2020 - 2:27am

yea I heard now they have curfew stuff in Chicago things r so messed up

Expected to graduate from UBC Sauder School of Business in the year of 2024. Planning on taking Finance as my major.
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May 31, 2020 - 2:36am

Are people even maintaining social distancing at all with all of these protests? I've seen pics of thousands of people all scrunched up together. Won't this easily cause the coronavirus to infect everyone again?

I think at this point, people are still ok with WFH for now, right?

Will update my computer soon and leave Incognito so I will disappear forever. How did I achieve Neanderthal by trolling? Some people are after me so need to close account for safety.
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May 31, 2020 - 3:16am

Never ever call US a first world country.

I'm old enough to remember three weeks ago when the media were very certain that protests were dangerous and irresponsible because they would spread the virus and kill thousands

May 31, 2020 - 10:34pm

That's still a problem but I think people are more worried about a Civil War now

Array

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May 31, 2020 - 4:46am

LA is pissing me off. I tried to go get groceries but the streets were blocked off. About an hour later I see all the vandalism and fires. I live in Beverly Hills but closer to the east side, just 1.5 miles away from the main rioting. What does all of this do? I'm all for peaceful protests. I think it's the most American thing to do. I understand frustrations of people and think the improper use of force was wrong. But stealing Luis Vuitton and Adidas shoes doesn't do shit to better the situation. I just don't get the mentality of people.

There are no adults. It's so surprising how irresponsible we are as a human race with our power of free will...

“The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.” - Nassim Taleb
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May 31, 2020 - 4:57am

They straight up destroyed nyc. I couldn't even take my dog for a proper walk and had to carry him home because there's glass all over the sidewalks. Fucking animals

These weren't protesters, these were degenerates. It was literally all white kids breaking windows and shit too

May 31, 2020 - 6:15am

Bro come on. The people looting shit and protesting are not always the same person. By grouping them together, we coimpletely dismiss the ideas that protestors are trying to communicate...And don't try to act so inconvenienced...You live in Beverly fucking Hills for rucks sake.

"Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

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May 31, 2020 - 11:22am

I understand your sentiment but a few things to respond:

  1. Correct, the looters and not the protestors. People who loot don't care about the message, they're just selfish animals.

  2. I agree with the cause. I think there is systematic racism and injustice. Like I said, peaceful protests are the most American thing ever.

  3. For me it's difficult to get groceries because I'm busy 7 days a week. Saturday evenings and Sunday evenings are my only times I can get groceries for my wife and I. I wouldn't want her going by herself in this situation. That's why I'm irritated at it.

  4. My wife and I made a lot of sacrifices to live in a nicer neighborhood. We didn't get to travel more than once, we postponed our honeymoon, we had a wedding of immediate family only, etc. I don't need to justify why I wanted to live in a nicer and safer area.

  5. On point 4, I'm not saying my life is hard. It's objectively good. The fact that I'm complaining about groceries shows my life is pretty good. I'm not saying woe is me. Billions of people have it way worse. I'm expressing my frustration that people can't control themselves.

“The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.” - Nassim Taleb
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May 31, 2020 - 11:46am
Corporate Raider:
Bro come on. The people looting shit and protesting are not always the same person.

They absolutely are not the same people. Peaceful protests have been co-opted nation-wide by bad faith instigators in order to provoke violence.

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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May 31, 2020 - 10:53pm

Clealry you can't see past the symbolism. Perhaps the items are a symbol of the rich, many of whom these protesters are not and absolutely hate.

Array
Controversial
May 31, 2020 - 6:10am

From what I have seen so far:
- another victim of police brutality;
- legitimate protests;
- protests hijacked by looters and antifa, big corps like Target, Nike and McDonald hit, low income neighbourhoods also most affected;
- big corps social media openly support riots (Nike, Adidas);
- liberal media openly support riots;
- CNN raided by rioters;
- Hollywood actors financially supporting looters and antifa (who, mind you, are mostly rich white kids);
- Minneapolis mayor and other prominent liberal politicians and media say looters are ''white supremacist'', NYT claims Russia is behind it;

I think any healthy society would have stopped at n.2 Everything else is result of that mental disease called liberalism. Nothing makes any sense whatsoever. The left is pushing for the destruction of their own areas, then whining because of the damage.

It's no surprise that only liberal bastions are affected, because that's simply society fixing itself. Excessive stupidity leads to decline and finally collapse. The best way forward is to simply let the liberals burn their own cities, create quarantine zones around them and don't let anyone out. Conservatives will rebuild society from the ashes. One more time. This time, without liberals.

And for anyone whining, daily reminder that this is what these people believe in:

Endorsed by twitter with their precious blue check. The same twitter that censors the President for condemning looters. The same twitter that censors those who protests against the CCP at the request of the latter. There's no possibility of dialogue with this kind of evil.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

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May 31, 2020 - 8:58am
neink:

Conservatives will rebuild society from the ashes. One more time. This time, without liberals.

Lol, you are a walking parody. Conservatives two weeks ago were storming state capitols because they couldn't get a haircut.

At last check, you were a European who had never once lived in the US but was weirdly obsessed with our politics. That still true?

you didn't make good choices; you had good choices

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May 31, 2020 - 9:10am
Alt-Ctr-Left:

neink:

Conservatives will rebuild society from the ashes. One more time. This time, without liberals.

At last check, you were a European who had never once lived in the US but was weirdly obsessed with our politics. That still true?


Ad hominem. The lowest form of debate since at least 2000 years ago.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

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May 31, 2020 - 11:33am

you have some really good points in there and some weird ones too. the media is so untrustworthy it's insane. they control the minds of people who are easily willed.

this leads into a problem with what you're saying. every society has this number of people, on the left AND right who are easily swayed / sheep. they are actually the SAME people- they just have different core SENTIMENTS (feelings) and try to fit the world into their worldview. for every white supremacist there is a pink haired SJW.

every country has people who get pandered to and purchased. in poor countries they are literally handed money. remember Pablo Escobar running for office? of course it might be building a building or this or that nowadays but it's the same. pandering to this group will always happen. the USA is not full of smart people as it is stupid people who have the freedom to get shitty grades watch tv and the kardashians and get drunk or smoke weed all day. but they have the FREEDOM to. that shouldn't be ENABLED by free programs in principle by disincentivizing people who CHOOSE not to. in America we are federally a republic for that exact reason and I hope to PRESERVE that freedom which makes us American.

it's important to tolerate CA (SF,LA) and NYC, Chicago, Detroit, etc. because they fail and fail again with horrible ideology. but people should be given the freedom to shoot themselves in the foot and that's where I disagree with your underlying point about gaining control.

I agree that liberal idiots are destroying their own cities (e.g. these riots are happening in democrat cities etc) and that if ever critical, Democrats need to apologize for resisting at all and are called racist if they do shows the capacity of leftists. I don't think there's that problem on the right- white supremacists, alt right, are overly ridiculed but mainstream democrats, media, Hollywood have NO spine in standing up to the crap extremists pull and if they EVER do THEY apologize (crazy) for questioning 'the experiences of (insert oppressed group)' or 'invalidating' or not understanding because they are privileged. Insane and everyday moderates or regular democrats don't have any say in what's going on because of how disconnected they are from media. don't think that's true of the right though. overall, I'd say the left is full of those who are motivated by sentiment (which is why they tolerate any BS, because they use similar logic in their arguments always calling people racist and giving away stuff that's not theirs to give) and justice but the right is full of those who want to preserve freedom but have people who want control too. many reasonable people on the left could probably be put under the right now because of these shifts (eg classical liberals)

thoughts?

May 31, 2020 - 1:56pm

I don't particularly disagree with anything you say.

Freedom and responsibility should go hand in hand.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

Most Helpful
May 31, 2020 - 12:03pm
neink:
- protests hijacked by looters and antifa

You know, it's funny - you call out "antifa" but not the white nationalists, not the "Boogaloo Boys" organizing and training to "start a second civil war." Why are they not a target of your ire?

You point a finger at "liberals" while ignoring that systemic racism, police militarization, and police brutality started all of this. Why are you, a so-called conservative, not outraged by an inherently unequal society with authoritarian urges? Where is the fairness? Where is the freedom?

You say "Conservatives will rebuild society from the ashes. One more time. This time, without liberals," as if a single-minded right wing society would in any way reflect an America that isn't a rural Fox News fever dream.

Liberalism isn't a "mental disease" - and neither is Conservatism. They are different perspectives on governance and life, each weighing the responsibility of the individual slightly differently than the responsibility of the community.

Absolutism, however, is a mental disease. Vitriol is a disease. "Us vs. Them" is a disease. Anti-intellectualism is a disease. Bad faith arguments to paint the other side as the evil instead of just different are a disease. Ignorance is a disease and it it is a disease spread from some in the media and it is a disease spread from the highest office in the land and it is a disease spread by alt-right try hards on this website that accurately reflect neither conservatism or patriotism.

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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May 31, 2020 - 3:02pm
CRE:

neink:
- protests hijacked by looters and antifa

You know, it's funny - you call out "antifa" but not the white nationalists, not the "Boogaloo Boys" organizing and training to "start a second civil war." Why are they not a target of your ire?


When you have another Charlottesville or similar, you'll see me bashing white supremacists. They are not significant to the issue at hand.
CRE:

You point a finger at "liberals" while ignoring that systemic racism, police militarization, and police brutality started all of this. Why are you, a so-called conservative, not outraged by an inherently unequal society with authoritarian urges? Where is the fairness? Where is the freedom?

Minneapolis is a place where liberals have been controlling the executive, the judiciary, the police and everything else for decades. This is one of the things that gets me railed up. You want to say it's a bastion of ''systemic racism''? Okay, then it's entirely on the left, because the left controls all the power there. So, it's either the left is promoting systemic racism despite claiming to fight it, hence voting for the left makes no sense, or the accusation of systemic racism is bullshit. Considering that the term stems from critical race theory, a Marxist field of the academia, it's likely the latter. Given however that we don't seem to be able to stop parroting whatever the NYT says, then it's the former. The left is to blame for systemic racism in Minneapolis.

CRE:

You say "Conservatives will rebuild society from the ashes. One more time. This time, without liberals," as if a single-minded right wing society would in any way reflect an America that isn't a rural Fox News fever dream.

Okay, find me one society that has been built from zero, by the left and didn't collapse on its own. And I don't mean a society that was already existing and the left took over. I mean something like Hippie communities or the Communes in Paris.
CRE:

Liberalism isn't a "mental disease" - and neither is Conservatism. They are different perspectives on governance and life, each weighing the responsibility of the individual slightly differently than the responsibility of the community.

Are you defending that Olivia Gatwood in the tweet I posted above?

CRE:

Absolutism, however, is a mental disease. Vitriol is a disease. "Us vs. Them" is a disease. Anti-intellectualism is a disease. Bad faith arguments to paint the other side as the evil instead of just different are a disease. Ignorance is a disease and it it is a disease spread from some in the media and it is a disease spread from the highest office in the land and it is a disease spread by alt-right try hards on this website that accurately reflect neither conservatism or patriotism.

Yeah, now you say this. Then the next day you promote Russia collusion conspiracy theories to overthrow Trump, because you really don't like him. Then the next day you support the harassment of the Covington kids because CNN, NYT and Wapo horrendously misreported the news. Then the next day you claim the US is a racist country because Jussie Smollet was harassed by racists, when it turns out, it was a hoax. The Rubicon of patience has been crossed.

Evidence of this is the NYT still blaming Russia for stirring up the riots in the US. If there was a serious, sincere backtracking of all this bullshit, then I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, the last 3 years have proven over and over that signing a truce with liberals lasts at best one day, before something is immediately and intentionally misreported in the news to blame Trump, Christians, Western values, people of European descent, males, families or babies. Fuck that. There's no reason to tolerate any of this anymore.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

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May 31, 2020 - 9:38pm
neink:

From what I have seen so far:
- protests hijacked by looters and antifa, big corps like Target, Nike and McDonald hit, low income neighbourhoods also most affected;

Dude, Are you smoking crack?

I cannot speak about Minnesota, as I have not been, and do not know about the city structure there, but everywhere else it's been in the nicest neighborhoods in town.

-In LA it has been in/around Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills.

-In NY it has been in Times Square (if only they'd torched the place) and in downtown Brooklyn at Barclay's Center.

-In Chitown it's been Michigan Avenue.

-In Philly it was the commercial district between Center City West (main skyscrapers) and Rittenhouse Square (Poshest residential area where most of the downtown Philly scenes of Trading Places were shot) Here's a "Pub" in the affected area: https://thedandelionpub.com/ I promise you that no bar in a bad area offers both brunch and afternoon tea.

-The Bronx is not burning.

-There are no riots in Newark or Camden.

-West Philly is fine (Taking stuff from that discount store in NE Philly seems to have been an aberration)

-Compton is not on fire.

A white girl from upstate was even arrested for that molotov that torched the NYPD van.

EDITED: Spelling

I generally see somebody I know on TV on Bloomberg/CNBC etc. once or twice a week. This sounds cool, until I remind myself that I see somebody I know on ESPN five days a week.
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May 31, 2020 - 11:05pm

I was referring to Minneapolis. For the other places, you are right. Because those who are rioting are rich white kids with a college degree and the Antifa banner.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

  • Prospect in Other
May 31, 2020 - 11:06pm

Your argument - and style of argumentation - is riddled with fallacies that I'm glad others have pointed out. To pull together unrelated data points that are (often) scapegoats and denying / manipulating the truth to create your own worldview, it's no wonder that you're so enraged. You've created your own reality and narrative. There is no hope defeating the deluded..

May 31, 2020 - 11:07pm

Sony twitter account seems to be the wokest Antifa supporter of them all, cheerleading property destruction because ''cities can rebuild''.

And since we are at it, what happened to the lockdown? Liberal states were already the most infested, so much for social distancing now.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

May 31, 2020 - 9:08am

Riots are obviously dumb and unproductive. But note that many of the same people who will strongly condemn these rioters also ridiculed Colin Kaepenick's peaceful, silent protest and called him a son of a bitch, including the President. They don't want any protest or unrest or any uncomfortable reminder that we have a massive overpolicing problem in this country. "Shut up and dribble" as Laura Ingraham told Lebron when he had the audacity to wear a t-shirt.

Here's where I'm at: !tt

t: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZRu9NJXQAYKwoY?format=png&name=900x900

you didn't make good choices; you had good choices

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May 31, 2020 - 9:51am

I don't ridicule Kapenick for speaking his freedom. Him kneeling is just as productive (as we saw from at least a listening aspect) and obviously less violent than stealing TVs from Target or lighting Cop cars on fire.

However, the main issue people had with it was him using his employer (NFL) on a national stage to convey his message instead of creating movements off the field.

May 31, 2020 - 10:10am
NYYCRE:

However, the main issue people had with it was him using his employer (NFL) on a national stage to convey his message instead of creating movements off the field.

An off-field, off-camera protest would be invisible and ineffective, just like his naysayers want.

I can assure you Trump and his supporters don't call him a "sonofabitch" simply because he chose to protest while on the clock. It may be grounds for him losing his job, but not ignoring his message.

you didn't make good choices; you had good choices

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May 31, 2020 - 10:48am

as much as kapernick had a right to protest people have a right to criticize him. difference is he did it openly in a way that affected business and has every right to have his contract terminated (props to him for 'speaking his truth' because it's important that people are willing to even if it's stupid).

the truth is though that people just don't believe in what BLM protests in reality. all this rioting and victimization for a few injustices that no one disagrees are horrible, yet concluding the entirety of America and all white people need to re-evaluate themselves, etc. Who's saying that kneeing on someone's neck for 9 minutes is justified? people are making strawmen and creating enemies out of thin air wtf?

it isn't that there aren't reasonable people protesting things that are material like police abuse of power and corruption. but the racist spin, the white supremacy, privilege, reparations spiral can all be lumped as ridiculous because it's so stupid. the reality is BLM is stupid. there are 1-3 deaths a year that are questionable and about 20-50% of them are actually injustice. to say that millions of military, security, police personnel are racist is crazy (obviously). to justify any looting rioting etc is crazy. to blame your life mistakes on it is crazy.

not to mention that these murders don't scream racism. they just scream blacks dying to whites. there's a grey crossover of assholes who kill and abuse power regardless of color and just because it happens to a black person doesn't mean you should call every white person guilty and needing to say something or they are horrible people. protesting police brutality and corruption cool, racism hell no how are half of BLM cases racist at all... they could be but they could reasonably not be too...

going forward the rate of unjust murders will go down with recording and social media and increased scrutiny. pressuring chiefs, DA's etc to step down for not enforcing fairness before is a good step. difference is people in Michigan didn't actually loot kill hurt anyone. they showed up and implied something but didn't actually do anything crazy. that's not comparable at all to what's happening right now lmao

May 31, 2020 - 10:58am
NotSarcastic:

the reality is BLM is stupid. there are 1-3 deaths a year that are questionable and about 20-50% of them are actually injustice.

This is comically wrong. Please try to understand the viewpoints and experiences of people that don't look like you.

you didn't make good choices; you had good choices

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May 31, 2020 - 11:09am
NotSarcastic:

Who's saying that kneeing on someone's neck for 9 minutes is justified?

Well for one, the three officers who watched him do it and didn't try to stop him, thus proving BLM's point that police abuse is widespread and systemic?

you didn't make good choices; you had good choices

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May 31, 2020 - 5:25pm
NotSarcastic:

but the racist spin, the white supremacy, privilege, reparations spiral can all be lumped as ridiculous because it's so stupid. the reality is BLM is stupid. there are 1-3 deaths a year that are questionable and about 20-50% of them are actually injustice.

Please don't tell me you think the 2 or 3 incidents that gain NATIONAL media coverage each year are the only 'questionable' deaths of Black people at the hands of the subset of the police population that is racist and power hungry. Think about how many incidents couldn't be recorded because the victim was alone or video couldn't be captured fast enough.

  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 31, 2020 - 11:05pm
NotSarcastic:

Who's saying that kneeing on someone's neck for 9 minutes is justified? people are making strawmen and creating enemies out of thin air wtf?

Let me know if I'm wrong but I'm going to assume you don't interact with rural conservatives in red states much. Northeast/urban republicans oppose this because most of you are socially moderate/liberal but a sizable portion of Trump's base, hardcore conservatives believe the actions of the officer were justified to deal with the thug. I live in Trump country in a red state and I have to be careful talking about this when I talk to adults in my area because it's 50/50 on being against or defending the cop (edit: outside of my circle of friends, obviously, I don't hang out with racist rednecks). I was just talking to a guy earlier today who was coming over to work on something at my house and he went on about how the protests are stupid because it was impossible for the cop to cause the death because of the positioning of the cop's leg. This is part of the reason why it's a huge problem in our country, a lot of MAGA Trump supporters like the MPLS Police Union President don't think the police did anything wrong and believe police should use being more force, not less.

May 31, 2020 - 11:28am

Speaking of Kaepenick, I think his only fault was not explaining the full extent of kneeling and what it meant to him. He actually spoke with a Green Beret who said kneeling was a great way to honorably express dissatisfaction with America, by simultaneously refusing to stand (to show his discontent) while kneeling is also what military members do to honor the fallen. I think that's a great story behind what he was doing and more people could've understood it. But people, including the President, jump and act like he's the new Timothy McVeigh or something stupid like that...

“The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.” - Nassim Taleb
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May 31, 2020 - 11:40am

Sure. He made a lot of mistakes in his protest, including the pig socks, and more egregiously, choosing not to vote.

But when all is said and done, he will end up one of the most historically significant people of this era. Bring on the monkey shit, college freshmen!

you didn't make good choices; you had good choices

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  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 31, 2020 - 11:05pm

PERFECTION. The last few days I defend protesters because I am in the first 3 circles and then I automatically get accused with supporting the looting and the killing of cops.

May 31, 2020 - 9:19am

if George Floyd's death was a match, I'd argue the 20-25% minimum unemployment we have (counting furloughed, part time, underemployed) is the kerosene leading up to last night. I saw these protests/damages with my own eyes this is no joke, stay safe guys.

I would argue this is why testing, tracing, and actually having a freaking plan to open us up ASAP is literally as life or death a situation as the virus itself people. This is what unrest looked like BEFORE stimulus income ran out, realize that. This is only getting worse if Congress/the WH fail to supplant incomes or reopen businesses.

May 31, 2020 - 10:08am

Daytime protests are about George Floyd, sure. They have every right to peacefully protest, and they do. PEACEFULLY. But then again there are also a lot of the people out there who are not there out of empathy but more to earn their SJW badges and play woke on Insta.

The clusterfuck that unfolds once the sun goes down is literally a disgrace to any noble cause. Most of those people are fucking animals. It would be fantastic to have a tracking plan, but do you really think that these mindless buffoons would comply with tracing tech? They have absolutely no respect for authority or their neighbors or the people who will need to pick up the pieces in their wake, why would they follow any instructions from DeBlasio or Cuomo if there would be no direct benefit to themselves?

Then there are 1)the fucking morons who are drinking at their window bars while completely unaware of the pandemonium going on literally 2 blocks away, 2) people who would rather argue until their thumbs fall off than inconvenience themselves by putting on a mask, 3) anti-vaxxers and high-functioning schizophrenics whose self-importance delude themselves into thinking anyone would actually be interested in tracking them, etc. If anyone thinks that a tracing program can be successfully implemented in this god forsaken place, I envy your optimism

May 31, 2020 - 10:55am

tracking plan in what sense? I think I've heard of people trying to turn their phone location off or leave their devices at home when they riot but I haven't heard anything in the extent you're saying (genuinely don't know what you're getting at). I don't think tracking would work at all either (your points aren't wrong) but who are you arguing against?

May 31, 2020 - 11:01am

dude no one is going to agree to getting traced that's so weird of a statement. people aren't going to hand over their freedom like that. the protest would be 100x worse than it is now.

in my opinion easing things up makes total sense by allowing higher group numbers / as long as people are 6 feet apart to go with their lives. the truth is there is a large majority of people who work very low skill low wage jobs that are slaves to their labor and life. these people are frustrated at the world and the USA thinking they deserve a better life and more opportunity (though they absolutely had it growing up and do in the USA).

the harsh reality is that there's this sentiment that leads to people voting democratic and socialist (in terms of desiring 'free' programs) that if not addressed will flare up like this. whether or not it's valid, the extreme injustice people are FEELing is valid because it's inciting strong emotion and action. I don't think opening up solves the problem but at least loosens up some pressure people are feeling.

May 31, 2020 - 11:35am

just clarifying, I'm referring to tracking Covid19 not protesters.

Like it or not, the tools to track us are already in place. This initiative is already underway:

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/04/apple-and-google-partner-on-covi…

Again let me clarify before the MS, I am NOT saying I AGREE but merely stating FACT that the cat is already out of the bag on the privacy debate. We can argue about civil liberties here and now but practically speaking that debate is extremely overshadowed in public discourse atm.

May 31, 2020 - 11:31am

Most of the protests I saw near me were more about socioeconomic problems and hating rich people more so than racial injustice. This isn't quantified and just my personal observation though.

“The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.” - Nassim Taleb
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May 31, 2020 - 11:47am

all I know is these debates are getting highly emotional - as they do when discussing topics of race and inequality. But this is never a good state to be in when actually trying to discuss this shit in a constructive way with people. It's pretty safe to say the people on this forum are highly educated, intelligent people, so to all the commenters above I say: take a walk and try think of an opposing argument to yours before you get into a fight with someone irl or on this forum.

  • Analyst 1 in S&T - Other
May 31, 2020 - 10:22am

I'm all for demonstration over police brutality. But this is getting out of hand, very displeased with lowlife scums looting and destroying private properties.

May 31, 2020 - 10:33am

The entire riot is predicated on the assumption that African Americans are targeted and killed by police at a higher rate than whites when data to support that claim just doesn't exist. When adjusted for violent crime rates, African Americans are killed by police at pretty much the same rate as white Americans.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables…

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-p…

African Americans commit about 30% of the violent crimes and make up about 30% of police shooting deaths in any given year. Protest police brutality, sure I get that. But, the entire BLM movement is based on a lie that no one wants to call out.

May 31, 2020 - 12:09pm
DPFU1418:
The entire riot is predicated on the assumption that African Americans are targeted and killed by police at a higher rate than whites when data to support that claim just doesn't exist.

The peaceful protests are predicated on the assumption that police shouldn't be fucking killing people.

While we're at it, they shouldn't be arresting and/or shooting rubber bullets and tear gas at journalists and people just sitting on their own damn porch either.

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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  • Analyst 2 in RE - Comm
May 31, 2020 - 11:06pm
Pmc2ghy:

Uh oh, wait for people to start crying about how FBI crime statistics are inherently racist. The cognitive dissonance from liberals is awe inspiring.

It's certainly not awe inspiring to use your brain and realize that the justice system is inherently racist. Would you like to go in on an argument about that? I have a lot of time today.

May 31, 2020 - 5:35pm

BLM isn't about trying to prove that one race commits more or less crime than the other. BLM is about the fact that the majority of police are more likely to use excessive force (or even bullets) when interacting with Black people than White people.

Think of it this way: how is it that someone selling cigarettes illegally (Eric Garner) or allegedly using counterfeit money (George Floyd) is killed before exercising their right to due process but a serial killer / mass murderer (Dylan Roof) is apprehended without injury?

That's what BLM is all about: treat lives of all races equally when you (the police) are interacting with civilians because Black Lives Matter, Too.

  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 31, 2020 - 11:05pm

The thing with using counterfeit money too is that it could literally be any one of us. If someone hands me a fake $20 and I use it the next day, the cops could come for me the same way as they did for Floyd. Most likely, they are good cops but what if the pair of cops closest to me when the store owner calls the police don't care about my safety or following guidelines.

May 31, 2020 - 11:07pm

My problem is using a handful of encounters across a number of years in a country of 330 million people. For every Michael Brown and George Floyd, you can find cases like Daniel Shaver and Tony Timpa, two white men killed by police in recent years that didn't get near the exposure.

Here's a study that NPR talked about outlining generally what i'm saying.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/26/745731839/new-study-says-white-police-of…

Overall, I just generally believe the problem lies with police incompetence and powerful unions rather willful murder of innocent individuals. Like with all unions, police unions certainly make the punishment and firing of officers more challenging.

  • Prospect in Other
May 31, 2020 - 11:06pm

Adjusting for violent crime rates does not nullify the fact that AAs are targeted and killed by police at a higher rate.

Statement 1: African Americans are killed by at a higher and disproportionate rate.
Statement 2: African Americans commit proportionally more violent crime.

Your inference: African Americans are not killed at a higher rate adjusting for violent crime.

Not necessarily logical to control for and correlated wrt high profile killings committed by police in recent years.

May 31, 2020 - 11:02am

This riot is a big Rosharch test where you can see whatever you want to see and confirm your priors.

Police brutalizing innocent peaceful protestors? Check.
White people instigating violent riots? Check.
Police shooting non-lethal rounds at the free press? Check.
Black people looting? Check.

Or, watch this video where the police laid down their armor and marched peacefully with protesters in Flint. If it can happen in Flint, it can happen anywhere. Flip the script.

https://www.facebook.com/83040292558/posts/10158079365762559/?vh=e

you didn't make good choices; you had good choices

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May 31, 2020 - 12:06pm
Alt-Ctr-Left:
This riot is a big Rosharch test where you can see whatever you want to see and confirm your priors.

It also serves as a mirror.

If you are more upset that a Target got looted by bad faith actors than you are about systemic oppression in America, it's time you take a long look.

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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May 31, 2020 - 2:52pm
Alt-Ctr-Left:

This riot is a big Rosharch test where you can see whatever you want to see and confirm your priors.

Police brutalizing innocent peaceful protestors? Check.
White people instigating violent riots? Check.
Police shooting non-lethal rounds at the free press? Check.
Black people looting? Check.

Or, watch this video where the police laid down their armor and marched peacefully with protesters in Flint. If it can happen in Flint, it can happen anywhere. Flip the script.

https://www.facebook.com/83040292558/posts/10158079365762559/?vh=e

I'm too old to get into internet debates (or I just don't have the stamina to deal with the internet children like CRE does) but one of my largest takeaways from all this is that the militarization of our police force, from an actually equipping them with old / excess army gear, to the training that emphasizes violence over deescalation, to the mindset that they are always "in danger" and "at war" on the street has had and will continue to have deep, vast, and potentially irreparable harm to our country.

It's a product of our general conservative slant towards authoritarianism and our fetishism of war and guns, but the ripple effects (combined with things like inherent systemic racism and tribalism/white nationalism) make clashes like this and deaths like George Floyd's inevitable. When one side thinks they are at war and the system protects their war like actions, they will act in kind. Combined with outlets like fox news and breitbart telling people to drive their cars into protestors, that they are in a "culture war", and that the media/liberals/Trans people/feminists/"thugs"/etc are "enemies" and you've created a de facto army. It causes people to feel the need to fight back and the cycle continues.

May 31, 2020 - 4:45pm

I agree with most of what you wrote, but we are absolutely in a cultural war. Abortion is one obvious example. Without going down the rabbit hole, half the country believes it's not a human life, and the other half believes there's been a genocide of tens of millions over the last several decades. Another is the destruction of the family as the basic unit of society, primarily by absentee fathers, disproportionately affecting the black community. (Divorce is another example of the latter.)

There has been a trend since at least the 1960s towards encouraging the gratification of any urge an individual has without almost any consideration of the consequences (on those very individuals usually, but also on society). Society now generally considers the highest good to be satisfying almost any desire an individual has (rather than what policies and values result in the greatest flourishing of families); and if ones does not agree, and increasingly if one does not actively affirm these actions and the beliefs behind them, one is labeled a bigot. As an aside, even if I were to agree with some of the more extreme topics (e.g. pumping hormones into adolescents so they can change genders), I don't know how a society can be expected to move in one direction so quickly - only a decade ago Obama couldn't publicly support gay marriage. Without a literal revolution and takeover of the government, there's a limit to what can be achieved by progressives within a generation. I'm not even getting into some of the borderline unconstitutional policies in some areas that don't allow for religious services attendance with ample social distancing, but allow people to go buy two by fours at Home Depot - but rest assured, there are many people who see this as an assault on their religious freedom, even if all these orders in their different variants are constitutional.

Finally, most people don't seem to believe in an objective truth. From alternative facts on the right, to "that's my truth" / moral relativism type thinking on the opposite side, I'm not sure how one society can last when it doesn't agree on basic facts - without this, we can't hope to share similar values and beliefs.

May 31, 2020 - 12:42pm
sixshooter69:

nothing says "justice" like destroying the local community!

The protestors and rioters are not the same. Anarchists, white nationalists, and "Boogaloo Boys," don't give a damn about black lives - they just want to riot. Every single person arrested Friday night in Minneapolis was from out of town. It's no surprise as to why that is.

The people destroying the community weren't out for justice, they were out for mayhem.

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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May 31, 2020 - 12:55pm

Characterizing the rioters as "anarchists, white nationalists, and 'Boogaloo Boys'" is pretty misleading. No doubt there are people with various political agendas in these crowds, but any honest observer can see that the politics of the rioters, to the extent that they're political, is overwhelmingly left wing. And tons of them are black, so it's safe to say that they care about black lives.

May 31, 2020 - 3:49pm
CRE:

Every single person arrested Friday night in Minneapolis was from out of town. It's no surprise as to why that is.

This also is a myth. Most people were from Minnesota. The mayor of St. Paul said the arrested were all from out of state and that was repeated by national media outlets, but he was wrong, and he retracted his statement. See here:
link(https://www.fox9.com/news/jail-records-show-most-arrested-in-minneapoli…)

It's pretty funny how much silly conspiracy theorizing has been coming out of well-educated progressives in the last couple of days. The Breitbart/Fox News crowd is getting a run for its money.

May 31, 2020 - 12:51pm

Lol at this dumpster fire of a thread.

As Mark Bylth said "The Hamptons is not defensible position. It's a low-lying beach. Eventually people will come for you"

Interested in health tech, consulting, and entrepreneurship.

May 31, 2020 - 1:17pm
genes:

Lol at this dumpster fire of a thread.

As Mark Bylth said "The Hamptons is not defensible position. It's a low-lying beach. Eventually people will come for you"

The people in this thread don't have a house in The Hamptons either. They're just carrying water for the people who do, hoping that one day they'll be let into the club.

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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May 31, 2020 - 3:44pm

This is why people call BS on your claims here that you are just a regular liberal and it's the Republican Party who has turned extremists, and you're just some honest broker.

The comment re: the Hamptons is an explicitly Marxist one; i.e. they are rich so therefore may deserve to be physically attacked one day. Literal class warfare in that the rich are necessarily guilty of something by being rich.

Employees of the wealthy are "water carriers" - i.e. the "petite bourgeois" who enables the excesses of the rich.

These ideas are not much different than the antifa dipshits spray painting a chase bank with an "eat the rich" or some other edgy tag.

It is pretty clear you harbor some hard-left opinions as it relates to wealth and class; why not just be open about it? Identify crisis given your career in finance?

Array
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May 31, 2020 - 4:51pm

Not into the moon silly! Falcon 9 launched Dragon Crew to the ISS where they'll be for at least 210 days.

Pretty cool launch though. I was annoyed the rocket landing partially cut out during the live stream. Big day for the US space program, engineers, and scientists all together!

Go all the way

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May 31, 2020 - 2:17pm

It is worth remembering that the current protests and riots are caused by, and are a direct response to, police violence. Police violence is systemic due to many reasons - including racism, a "protect the badge" mentality, the motivations behind some of the people who become offices, and human nature for certain people when given authority - but another major reason is the militarization of police.

The militarization police is seen as a negative by people on both sides of the political aisle. It is defined by the conservative Charles Koch institute as the "process whereby civilian police increasingly draw from and pattern themselves around, the tenets of militarism and the military model." This process tangibly occurs when a civilian police force adopts the equipment, operational tactics, mindsets, or culture of the military. The ACLU states that [https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/police…](Federal programs providing surplus military equipment, along with departments' own purchases, have outfitted officers with firepower that is often far beyond what is necessary for their jobs as protectors of their communities)

But you don't have to listen to me, or the Koch brothers, or the ACLU. You can see for yourself.

  1. In this video, the Minnesota National Guard and Minneapolis police fired paint canisters onto a private citizen's porch as they were marching down a residential street with no protest activity.

  2. In this video, the cops are confronted with a tough situation as protests stop being peaceful. Their solution? Plow into the crowd with their SUVs, running people over.

  3. here(https://twitter.com/heyydnae/status/1267139396278661121), a random police offer fired a pepper pellet at a random protestor who was standing still amidst other protestors. The police were driving away - there was no threat to them.

  4. This(https://twitter.com/the7goonies/status/1266989439160590336) woman in Erie, PA was sitting on the ground. A cop kicked her over for no reason.

  5. This(https://twitter.com/ChrisSerres/status/1267098060938776581) reporter was threatened at gunpoint multiple times after being both gassed and pelted with pellets. "Enemy of the people" indeed.

  6. These college students in Atlanta were tased, torn out of their cars, had their tires slashed, and were arrested.

  7. This(https://twitter.com/Sifill_LDF/status/1266928343141752833) protestor had his COVID mask torn off by a cop just so that he could be pepper sprayed.

  8. This(https://twitter.com/ava/status/1266797973834395648) bike cop shoved his bike into a black woman. When a white woman confronted him, he backed down.

  9. This(https://twitter.com/MayaMedia7/status/1266554668328513538) person was just thrown to the ground by the NYPD.

  10. This(https://twitter.com/blinksaturn/status/1266544395677040642) cop on horseback trampled a peaceful protestor.

  11. There are many incidents the past two nights of police harassing and firing at the free press.

  12. As well as senselessly beating the shit out of people with sticks.

  13. And(https://twitter.com/JulianCastro/status/1266929391013109774) knocking over an old white man with a cane.

  14. And finally a NYPD cop flashing the white power sign. Because of course.

If you are outraged at the riots, I certainly hope you have some outrage left for where it really belongs.

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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May 31, 2020 - 9:47pm

you're absolutely not wrong at all. there are a bunch of people (like I'm sure you can agree) getting defensive because their "group" is being called out. However BLM and blacks are just as guilty of using this rage to do horrible things and hate all cops (essentially). That rage IS felt by lots of African Americans who think things will happen in disproportion when in reality they will probably never face this. Of the 1000 cop deaths 25% are black (when committing 50% of crime), of which an even smaller proportion are white on black deaths. Of which only a small proportion are called into question. At the end of the day, I wouldn't call racism for those 5-10% questionable deaths because it isn't clear. It could "simply" be abuse of power NOT racism or systemic racism. Do you think anything I've said is reasonable?

You can't conflate power abuse and widespread racism carelessly. I think you should be way more specific and careful going forward conflating the two because they exist independent of eachother. The crossover is yes when racist people are protected but this is a SMALL subset of power abusers and should not be blown up. To be honest, I'm going to piggyback off the rage of racism going on and try to advocate for change in the system, sure and on that end we're all on the same side and arguing isn't necessarily going to amount for much.

But I will try to comment on people being accused of systemic racism, white privilege, guilt, etc. when they shouldn't be especially because we are able to have the discussion on WSO

May 31, 2020 - 11:05pm
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