Chimps,
Simple question, should a third year analyst be doing the same work as a first year analyst? E.g., random, one off analyses, PIBS, data dumps and meeting prep books (not pitches) vs. live deal execution work, client requests, meetings, etc.?
The way the role was explained, there was supposed to be a significant change as a third year is now considered an "associate in training". Hard to focus on live deal work at client sites when you are still getting requests for PIBs in the middle of the afternoon.
I get it...still an analyst, but what's the point in staying for a third year if the work isn't any different?
Not really learning anything at this point. Is it time to move on or just suck it up and stay until associate?
Generally, that's where your start to delegate the work to someone more junior. if your firm lets you do that
Your job is to do what's asked of you. As someone who is considerably higher on the totem pole than you are, I will tell you that you NEVER stop having to play down sometimes.
Look at any major bakeoff or deal you've been working on where maybe a Chairman/Vice Chairman was involved. All of a sudden the MD who ruled with an iron fist is running around chasing data points (like the sycophant that he is) as if he were a first year associate. It never ends. Mostly, your ability to delegate should improve and your responsibilities will increase assuming you've earned that. In the instances where you are playing down, take solace in the fact that you're not the only one.
My first summer job was being a 'carhop' (the kids on roller skates) at a sonic drive in. The district manager came in one day when we were severely understaffed, and helped us deliver orders/clean.
The point is: you do whatever you can to help the deal get done, and nothing is beneath you.
Be happy. At least your MD is not asking you to get coffee like the guy in this thread.
Thank you for the feedback. I'm happy to help out on actual deal work and do whatever needs to be done to get it done. That hasn't ever really been an issue. Very familiar with the Sonic metaphor (family friend owns 50+ in TN and still flips burgers).
I'm more focused on the internal BS analyses and "what ifs", PIBs, and random intro decks that have nothing to do with live deals are concerned. Why is/are the 1st years going home at 5pm on a Friday while I'm stuck here doing an internal screening exercise while trying to manage my own workload on 4+ live deals? lol Therein lies the frustration.
I hear you on your frustration and it sounds like it's a function of culture. Do your mid-level guys encourage you to delegate on some tasks or do you have an intern / first year analyst staffed with you on some files? It largely depends on the group and firm but I don't think it's unreasonable for you to try and offload a bit of that stuff every now and then. Is there an associate or vp you can talk to about trying to take on more "meaningful" work?
Keep in mind, like Novian said above, in banking you've always got to do some sht that you'd rather not be doing anymore. I've been doing this for a handful of years and am one of the most experienced juniors at my firm and I still have to pull research / do management overview slides etc. from time to time. Everyone has to roll up their sleeves sometimes and just grin and bear it.
In the eyes of the overlords, you = reliable, the 1st years... Not so much.
With each SA / analyst class, that first row seems to just grow longer and longer. We had issues with some in our SA class last year complaining all the god damn time, not wanting to work, and being such fucking nincompoops that a "quick update" on the social media policy had to be delivered by HR.
It might not even be something that your staffer can help you with if the tasks are 'insignificant' enough that they were passed off to you directly. The higher-ups know that if they pass the work off to you, 1) it'll get done, 2) it'll get done well, 3) they won't have to listen to hyperbolic declarations of workplace injustice, and 4) there won't be any selfies with your monitor visible in the background or straight up snapshots of whatever it is you're working on floating around on the internet thereafter. Might not be a staffing blip, in which case your staffer will just end up giving you the "what can I do when everyone's requesting you; my, look how far you've come!" spiel (ie I am very tired and I have to get to the dermatologist to discuss laser rejuvenation for my rapidly ascending hairline please do not make me have to try and rearrange this shit)
This is a pretty easy thing to address. Talk to your staffer about it. Say that you are struggling to get live deal work done in a timely manner because you are getting a lot of one off requests, and you noticed that the first years are leaving at 5pm regularly, Offer to help manage and quality check their work product. These requests could be driven by the fact that the mid and senior level guys know that you will get it done correctly the first time, and they don't trust the more junior analysts yet. If you ensure them that you will make sure it is all correct, I doubt they'd object to you passing off the actual work.
agree on all points. senior guys just want their shit done right the first time and hate having to work with first years in my experience.
being tight with [/being able to pretend that you can stand the] staffer is your biggest trump card as an analyst (especially when they're asshats). i've gotten out of so many jams through this.
PIB = Put In Butt right?
Does seem to be a step backwards
I would assume you have the authority to delegate things like this to even more junior people and just start doing it.
'Be' the associate now.
I would make it a habit of assuming you can get what you want and can delegate to other analysts until someone above you pushes back. Even then, you should be able to justify why you took those actions. Nobody above you really cares how the work gets done, just that it gets done and gets done well. It seems like you are considered someone who can get the work done efficiently and accurately. However, now it's time to prove you can delegate. Nobody looks at a person and thinks they have leadership skills if they wait until he/she has formal authority to lead people.
Believing you have the authority to delegate, actually gives you the authority to delegate most of the time. Just do it and watch your career skyrocket.
This guy just oozes wisdom
I'll think of you every day when I look at new analysts and interns.
Dickfuld, maybe you should have done a little less delegating on those Subprime risk reports.......
Thank you. This is very helpful. Have started delegating more over the last week and it has made life much much better.
Yes and No
Yes: First of all you have to earn your role. As someone mentioned, even an MD will have to chase down data at times, so while the portion of your time will shift as you move up, you never completely grow out of any one type of task.
No: While you may still be doing the same types of task your 3rd year as your 1st year, one would hope that your pie chart of your time shifts to less of the remedial tasks and more managing or thought leadership (minor shift, think baby steps not leaps). However this is going to be based on your own "internal leadership". => Speed of execution: When you get a 1st year like task as a 3rd year, does it take you the same time or can you do it in 2/3 the time (freeing you 1/3 time to do something "bigger")? => Guidance from more senior staff: When you get a 1st year like task as a 3rd year, do you need the same amount of hand holding and guidance/time to review the finished product? (from the senior staff perspective will they feel they/sr staff is more freed when giving to you vs a 1st year) => Quality: Similar to above, but is the outcome better or the same as a 1st year (don't think because it is basic task quality is non-issue) => Thought Leadership: When given a task, do you start to see areas of concerns or improvements... Are those comments the same quality comments that a 1st year give or more meaningful (from the senior staff perspective, not yours) => People Leadership: Its easier to do something yourself. Training someone to do it and having them struggle through it and guiding them is a skill in itself. Are you delegating, training, and guiding a 1st year analyst. Someone gave the task to you. You own it and if its crap you own that too. So if you delegate it to a 1st year, its on you to make sure they do it right.
Truth is, difference between a 1st year and a 3rd year is all internal leadership. If you had a seasoned professional change careers and become a 1st year associate, he will more than likely be doing work like a 3rd year extremely quickly do to internal leadership he/she has already developed over time. As you said the tasks are quick basic, so no reason after a short period of time anyone who has the internal qualities couldn't be doing more delegating and thought leadership. Its on you.
Your job is to shovel shit. The size of the turd doesn't matter. Just shovel.
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