So you're sayin' there's a chance!
Stats: Unemployed '09 grad from what I'm assuming is a semi-target (Hamilton/Colby/Bates), 3.4 gpa, econ and natural science majors, SAT M-800 V-760, internships with no-name companies (both same industry), ZERO FINANCE EXPERIENCE.
Here's my situation. I'm able to spin my experience well enough to get the occasional interview at regional boutiques specializing in the industry I've interned in. I've spent some time (~20 hours) studying the crap they tell you to learn for ib interviews - DCF, financial statements, etc - and never had a problem sounding knowledgeable about the subject (for someone w/ no experience and no finance/accounting courses). Basically, I can talk the talk, but can't walk the walk (as of right now at least, but it definitely won't be hard for me to pick up, it ain't rocket surgery).
Question 1: How do I convince an MD to take a risk on someone with "no demonstrated interest" or experience in banking (I think the fact that I show up for interviews demonstrates interest, guess it's not enough). Rather, how can I convey that I'm interested in banking first, and the "afore-referred to" industry second? Considering the economic climate and level of competition for jobs nowadays, am I wasting my time even trying?
Question 2: Am I cut out for this business? I'm a pretty lazy person. During college I went out (hard) 3-4 times per week. I like to do hoodrat stuff with my friends. I'm the worst procrastinator you've never met. I've never worked more than 30 hrs/wk in my life. That being said, I'm blessed w/ a very high IQ (professor once referred to me as the smartest idiot he's ever met - obviously I took that as a compliment and like to brag about it whenever the opportunity presents itself). I do my best work under pressure, I love money, I have an appetite for risk (I always think in terms of EV), and I think it would be sweet to call myself an investment banker (Yeah I know, I'm in it for all the right reasons). Anyone else like me out there, or is it all ultra-motivated nerd types? After sitting around jaying it all day for almost a year I have no clue if I'll be able to show up and start working 70+ hours.
Question 3: What should I tell interviewers I've been doing for the past 10 months? (the truth is boozing, playing poker, weekend benders in AC, and overall having an awesome time except for the fact that I live at home)
Also, I don't really feel like working for free - that's for the birds. You guys think that's something I'm going to have to do, or is it possible to go full-time having 0 banking internships? Lastly, to all you Cornell grade grub types wondering how I've been getting interviews, the way to do it is cold email your resume with a stuffy sounding cover letter, never call (that only pisses people off), and sound as desperate as possible.
I know I'm a cocky d-bag, but I'm actually serious with these questions, especially Q1 - all suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to hearing from you soon.
step 1. stop being a lazy fuck step 2. see step 1
step 1. see above post step 2. sign up for the next season of tool academy
"and sounds as desperate as possible"
Unemployed - non-target- 3.4 GPA..You are as desperate as possible
I think you guys got leveled
i hope this is a fucking joke, but mickie d's is constantly hiring.
for someone with a "very high iq," you seem to be doing well living with your parents and working at wal-mart.
Dude, if you're being straight up, you'd fucking hate banking. HATE IT.
You've never been around so many entitled, Type-A asshats as you would be if you somehow got hired. You'd blow yourself out the first week. It seems you have a clear sense of ROI, and enough smarts to know that selling 4,335 hours of your life in a year for $80,000 is a dipshit move.
Go start a company.
@whateverittakes - "rocket surgery" sounds like something that may be required after a "bender in AC"
What has "drawn" you to finance? Is it the lifestyle (post-making dinero)? If so, you can make money doing other stuff. Have you found success in poker? Maybe treat poker more like a job rather than something you do while getting f'ed up in AC.
I agree with Edmundo. Find something you're interested in. Banking takes up a lot of time, but so does starting your own company. As long as you're doing something you like, the hours won't matter. Since you've shown no actual interest in finance maybe it's not the place for you to make your money.
At least he was honest.
whiskeytango... Im a senior at one of those three schools, in a very similar situation. Lazy as all hell, go out 3-4 times a week, and actually got my offer from a BB a couple months ago. If you are from my school, we do have a pretty good rapport with a couple of the BB. I know this year we sent 3-4 to the GS/MS/JPM crowd, and another 4-6 to the C/BOA/Barcap crowd. Not bad for a school of around 2000. PM me if you want more info.
Sure doesn't sound like you're as smart as you think. You may be book smart, but working in finance and banking is a lot more about motivation and drive, of which you clearly have neither. Don't waste your time. You better start networking, because what you bring to the table on paper is shit.
why would you even put yourself through ib if youre not motivated or driven? like i cant imagine a worse place for lazy people to be at
Haha, I love this guy:D keep doing what you're doing, maybe you'll get your shot and then you'll find out if banking is for you. Who knows...
hahaha wow, you seem like the tyoe of dude i would want to hang out with
fuckin hoodrat stuff brah
how the hell do you have surgery on a rocket?
I think rocket-surgery joke is from the movie - The Boondock Saints II. I will not admit that I have actually watched the movie :-|
Edmundo,
Thanks for the honest advice. You've confirmed my suspicions. I've been under the - likely false - assumption that the money and pressure would motivate me to stick with it.
I have one more interview then I'm out of the game for awhile. I'll go work in industry. I'd still appreciate any advice that would help me ace this last interview though. Who knows, maybe I'll get the offer, hate the job, and do something hilarious when I decide its time to get fired. I think the WSO readers might appreciate a good story.
Darwin,
The question "What has drawn you to finance?" has been a sticking point in all of my interviews to date (it's the reason I wrote the post). Originally I considered banking as a way to make connections for when I eventually do start my own business (i.e. access to capital). Of course, money and "models and bottles" are also both at the top of the list. Also I know I'm cut out for the type of work - whether or not I'm cut out for the amount of work is an entirely different question, and I now suspect the answer is no. I've been under the assumption that my genuine interest in the companies that work with the banks I've been applying to would translate into interest in the work I'd be doing at a bank. And Its not that I have no interest in banking, its that I have interest in banking for the XYZ industry ONLY (and while I'm sure it involves a lot of the same type of work you'd be doing in any IBD, it also requires more technical knowledge necessary for asset-by-asset analysis, and that shit turns me on, who knows I might even love it).
Here's my big problem in interviews: my selling point (the reason I get interviews in the first place) has been my in-depth knowledge of that bank's industry focus. I get the impression that this makes the interviewer think "does this kid know what he's getting himself into, and does he know we're a bank, not an XYZ company?" I'm sure its not the only reason I'm not getting offers, but I really think its a huge issue, and one that I might have some control over.
As far as professional poker, I make more than enough money to fund my current lifestyle and pad the savings account (which is why I turned down an offer for a solid non-banking job, probably a dumb play, though I'm sure I can get another). However, I get smoked when I move up in stakes. I stick w/ what works for now. Basically I know I could make 50k a year for the rest of my life, but I'm concerned about career advancement (I can't exactly put poker on my resume). Also having so much volatility in my portfolio is okay w/ me while I'm 22 and living at home, but I suspect it wont be when I'm 32. I also don't love it. I look at it as a job now and, aside from the fact that I can work and play on my own schedule, it kind of sucks - very antisocial lifestyle. You're probably thinking to yourself I should consider trading. I have, but I'm not really sure how to break in because no way BB S&T will give me an interview, and all the prop shops I come across seem like scams. Any suggestions as to where I might look?
Sorry for my stream of consciousness writing and going on and on but just to clarify; I think some people might have gotten the impression that I have zero interest in finance because I wrote the comment about "studying the crap..." What I meant was I've studied all the stuff the banks want you to be able to talk about in an interview - I used the word "crap" because I think that that shit, while important, is extremely basic. Having the ability to explain DCF is crap, being able to run a model is not crap. I am interested in the latter (maybe).
Everyone, back to Question 1. Any suggestions?
Bueller... Bueller... Bueller?
Guys like you get caught up in "ZOMG, Must do Investment Banking!!!!"
In reality, based on the personality traits you listed, you are a better fit for Sales- Fixed Income or Equities.
Even at the BBs, you can sweet talk your way into sales. Just know that being lazy is unacceptable everywhere.
I might have to make a new post because I definitely included too much information here and its detracting from my real question, but I'll give it another shot first.
In a final round interview setting, what might a candidate with no prior finance experience say, specifically, to convince an MD that he is passionate about investment banking?
I know actions speak louder than words, but I don't exactly have time to go out and intern before my next interview.
I've considered several different approaches, all of which have significant downsides:
1) Register for the CFA Level 1 and say I'm studying for that. Downside: It costs a g 2) I could say I registered for the CFA. Downside: I'd be lying 3) Say something along the lines of how I just discovered i-banking recently, fell in love, blah blah. Downside: sounds weak, who wants to hire someone that just "stumbled across banking" 4) Say my first love is the industry serviced by the bank I'm applying to, and I've decided that banking is a way to be involved in the big deals that affect the entire industry, global economy, etc. (especially because its a capital intensive industry, intrinsically tied to the markets, etc.) Downside: downplays my interest in banking, which is already in question b/c I have no experience
In the past I've gone w/ #4, which is also how I truly feel, but I think there's a better answer out there. Thoughts?
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