Those who recruited for FT IB 2020 Positions, how was it?
What was your junior internship and where did you end up? If you had a return offer, do you wish you just accepted it? Any recommendations or is it not worth?
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Junior summer: lower-tier BB IBD, non-nyc, received return offer FT: Top BB IBD, non-nyc albeit different city than summer
Thanks for the input. Any advice for FT process? Did you target a specific city or were mainly looking for a "better" brand
Hey, would it be okay if I PM you about non-NYC IB question?
Summer was at MM IB, received return but decided to recruit and signed FT with a not-quite EB. I will say that a pretty big drive behind wanting to move banks was a personal thing, and it is highly unlikely I would have taken the risk for prestige/comp alone. It worked out for me but I literally have no clue how everyone else at the superdays fared, so take my success with a grain of salt.
Do you happen to have any advice for the process? When did your return expire and when did you get the not EB offer? If you don't want to expose, would you mind PMing me? Thank you!
Yes would prefer to keep details private but I can't PM when you use an anonymous profile
Summer: intern at regional office EB.
FT: Recruited at NYC EBs and MF PE analyst roles, ultimately signed with MF
From my understanding of the process, the best time to reach out to people was about 4-5 weeks left in the summer internship. Realistically, it's when you have enough experience to justify wanting to switch banks/groups without being too late and missing the boat for interviews. For two of the banks I targeted, I got put on the FT interview shortlist after just one phone call and the analyst/associate I was speaking with told me there was no need to reach out and network further; HR would just reach out for an interview.
I went back and forth about reaching out to people before the summer started, ultimately decided not to except for an analyst that I had a very strong connection to. (ended up being an 2 hour coffee chat about recruiting and the group and what not). However, he recommended I wait until halfway through the internship to start networking.
The process for interviewing moved incredibly fast. I'm talking phone interview + superday + offer in a 72 hour window the week after all the summer interns finished.
Thanks for your insight. I'm in a similar position for the upcoming summer. Could you PM me? I'd be interested in hearing more about your process.
Are you at a H/S/W? Feel like it's a crucial detail to seeing how transferrable this advice is
Was not at either of those schools or a target. Just networked hard with any alumni who I could find.
Not to say I'm at a complete non-target, but at T20 school with a slim presence in NYC finance.
Thanks for info.
Two quick follow-ups: when recruiting for FT in NYC, did you find that there was any sort of stigma against you because you did not intern in NYC?
Also, regarding pre-summer networking, I was of the school of thought that it might be better to try sending out emails in May to establish a relationship before an internship... but do you think this sounds like a bad idea? Like the perception might be that you're already sending out feelers for other firms/departments before you've even started your internship? And I wonder if you might have a different opinion if it turns out that the interships turn out to be virtual for the summer.
Okay, thanks!
There was no stigma with me not being in NYC. In fact, it made the reason for switching groups much more legitimate than that of an intern who wanted to move up the “rankings.”
.
How did you network while doing your internship at a EB? Wouldn't you be working until late at night? Also, since you were in a smaller regional office, wouldn't it be harder to sneak out and make a call during the day?
You’re not doing work 14 hours a day with hawkeye supervision. You can step out for 45 minutes and if someone asks where you went just say you had to call your parents or something.
Junior summer: small M&A boutique
FT: Stint at MM shop
I networked a lot in advance and built out my network for FT.
how far in advance did you network for FT? and did you focus only on alumni?
Mostly networked with alumni. I had my informational interviews with alums 2-3 months before starting my stint and just kept following up with updates.
Did you network before your internship started, or during the summer? And would you recommend one versus the other? Okay, thanks!
Summer: Specialized IB Boutique in SF Didn't get return offer FT: Signed with other Specialized Boutique in NYC 1. Did zero networking before applications 2. Only recruiting for NYC roles (I'm from the WC) 3. Was only looking at Boutique (no BB / non MM)
Thanks for sharing and glad it worked out for you. As an East/Non NYC intern looking to transition to the west coast, do you have any tips for the FT process at SF banks?
Thanks for info. Two questions...
How did you spin your not getting a return offer? Was it difficult getting NYC interviews since you didn't intern there the summer before?
Okay, thanks!
Summer: MM (non-NYC), received return offer FT: Top BB (non-NYC, same city)
Only started networking after receiving my return offer
Did your return offer expire by the time you were interviewing with other banks? In hindsight, would you recommend networking prior to the internship ending?
^^^
Summer: Tangentially related non-IB role (i.e. Valuations)
FT: Mid BB IBD, non NYC
which state?
Junior summer: MM IB coverage, received return FT: BB, same coverage
Summer: BB BO FT: Non-NYC Boutique, M&A
SA: MM IBD Return Offer SA: BB IBD NYC
Did my junior summer at top BB IB (MS/GS/JP), non-nyc, did not receive return due to headcount.
Accepted FT at EB IB (EVR, CVP, PJT). Happy to answer any Qs
Would you love to hear what you said when they asked about why you didn't get a return offer? Did you prove yourself during the interviews by mastering technicals? On campus or off campus process? When did you start FT networking?
Sorry, that might be a lot so I can PM instead if you prefer.
Looks like it was because of headcount
I accepted my FT in NYC and originally hail from this area. I explained it was a mutual decision given my team knew I wanted to be close to home. I left on good terms and had them listed as my main reference.
I proved myself by having a great story, and showing that I knew exactly what is going on in this industry/LOB.
Off-campus. I'm non-target.
Mid-Summer when it was clear I didn't want to be living in [Insert Tier II market here]
Did anyone who summered at a lower tier BB (UBS, DB, etc) recruit FT successfully at a top tier BB (GS/MS/JPM)? If so, how did you frame the move during interviews?
Summer: Top BB- product group Did not get return offer. FT: MM Buyside
Summer: EB in SF (received return offer)
FT: One of GS/MS/Q
Started networking with ~3 weeks left in the summer, interviews kicked off first week of august. I interviewed with everywhere I networked - as long as you have a well thought out reason for leaving, folks will be very receptive to speaking with you / advancing you in the process (in my experience at least)
Glad it worked out for you. I imagine you're still based in SF? I'll be interning in a MM tech group non NYC looking to transition to the West coast/SF due to the tech presence/stronger banks. Do you think this move would be feasible? Any tips for SF IB? Thank you!
Yes, still in SF - feel free to DM me to chat
You mentioned that as long as you give a reason why you're leaving, people are receptive to listen...
Did you state the reason in your introductory email? Or was the first email more general, as in "I just would like to ask you about your experience at X in the Y department?"
Okay, thanks!
Summer: NYC EB, received return offer
FT: Applied for FT at top BBs, other EBs with slightly better exit opps, didn't receive interviews for any of the above. Interviewed for MF PE analyst role, didn't get the offer. In the end, accepted the NYC EB return offer.
School: non-target
Out of curiosity, what do you think made it hard to get interviews from EBs for full time? Thought having done an EB internship should get you interviews from other EBs as well. Thanks so much.
That's a good question...I think there were a few factors in my case:
(a) I didn't start aggressively networking until the second to last or last week of the internship out of fear that word would get out I was shopping around. In retrospect, I should have started a few weeks earlier
(b) It was a tough year for headcount on the street. PJT M&A had one or two open spots I think, both of which were filled about by the time I was conducting outreach. GS Classic was totally filled by internal transfers.
(c) EVR rarely looks at non-targets in my experience. I didn't get any traction on my outreach.
Summer: Finance at F500
FT: EB IBD in NYC
Cannot overemphasize the importance of developing real relationships with people during "networking." Especially key for FT recruiting since there are so few lateral spots, and most other contenders will have someone pulling for them, too. Process was initial call, more formal phone interview, superday, and modeling test.
Congrats on the move! How did you go about standing out against competition with more relevant experience? How did you prepare for the interviews/modeling test?
Thanks! Addressed my lack of IB experience head-on. Specific project I worked on over the summer at the F500 firm was pretty technical and related to an M&A transaction. Talked about all that I learned from that, and stressed the importance of having an operator's point of view within a sea of new grads that have only ever done IB. Obviously kind of a tough sell relative to other top-group BB summer analysts looking to lateral to an EB, but I figured it was my best angle (and also valid).
Decided the only way to really make my pitch compelling (and overcome the lack of IB) was to crush the technicals. Got all the major guides and crammed to learn everything. I think the 400-question guide is a good starting place. Also picked a couple companies and built DCF and LBO models for them for practice. Ultimately, making my own models for practice before the superday started feeling like a waste of time because it was taking longer than anticipated to master everything (and I got stuck in the weeds a couple times), but it was actually crucial knowledge when they sprung the modeling test on me.
To be honest, it was tough because not that many banks had open positions and many times, the competitive banks would have numerous people who were already networking and in close contact with members of the firm since the early summer. Most banks don't specifically plan to have open FT positions but depending on the summer intern performance, they have to recruit again. This may happen even as late as now if the summer interns they thought would accept actually end up turning the offers down.
Interned my junior summer at a lower MM bank and didn't have a return offer and was able to recruit FT for a MM bank. Both banks were in SF. Process was fairly quick beginning in late September and ended in October. My understanding is some of the MMs don't look to compete with the BB's FT recruiting and are less strict/organized on the timing of their FT processes.
I would recommend that if you had a return offer from your SA stint and enjoyed the team/culture, I wouldn't bother with FT recruiting as there are far less opportunities than SA recruiting. More than anything you risk burning bridges with your existing group when trying to jump ship to a "better" bank. I would only recommend FT recruiting if you felt you didn't fit in or liked the culture of your current group - not to move up the ladder of prestige/comp.
Thanks for your input. Did you go to school in the West Coast? What if you're looking to transition cities? I'm really interested in SF IB and was wondering if you could help me identify the stronger players (MM) in SF as there's limited info.
Yes, a non-target in the bay area. I can't speak to transitioning cities as I have always been generally in the bay-area. In regards to which MMs are strongest in SF, I think it is very dependent on each bank's coverage group. SF IB is much smaller than NY and most banks only have a healthcare, tech or consumer group in SF. With that in mind, I would narrow your search to coverage groups you are interested in (not sure if there are any product groups in SF) and look for which MMs are the strongest in those areas. As a starting point, I would say the strongest MMs in tech are Jefferies, Wells Fargo, and RBC and the strongest in Healthcare are likely Piper Jaffray, Cowen and Jefferies. That being said, this is also very dependent on the group as I know some of these banks are stronger on the M&A side vs ECM or vice versa. But this is how I would approach your search, on a more group/sector specific level as not every MM bank is good at everything.
Interned at BB (BAML, CS, Barclays). Got return offer
Interviewed with almost every boutique except for Lazard and Moelis because they recruit later. Signed with EB.
Can't emphasize the importance of networking to get Full-Time interviews. Half of the firms I interviewed with didn't even have an online application. For selective places such as GS, PJT, EVR and MF PE, having a partner or principal vouching is only sure way to get an interview because everyone will try to jump ship making it competitive. Best of luck all.
Thanks for your input. Would you mind PMing me (your anonymous so I can't PM)? l'll be in a similar position as yours next summer and I would to ask you more questions.
Any advice to those that didn't receive offers?
BB IBD (CS/Citi/Barclays) -> GS Top goup (TMT/FIG)
can you tell us a little bit about what that process looked like for you?
bump
Does anyone have experience with going from BB S&T junior summer to FT IB? Is it difficult to lateral within your own firm or recruit with other banks?
Summer was MM IBD in NYC. Got FT group specific offer (coverage) at one of BAML/Citi/CS. I was involved in multiple processes at other BBs and EBs but took the one I got immediately, mostly because it’s a top group for an industry I am interested in. I had begun reaching out to friends as soon as my internship started, but the formal process was very quick for me. I was surprised that my FT interviews were completely technical free and only about what I did that summer and “fit” questions.
Many times, the firms will trust your experience at your prior firm given the things you did or said you did on your resume. Of course, they will try to establish that you actually know what you're talking about, but at the same time, they are at least assured that you can do the job and just need to focus more on whether you can actually work with them or not (fit).
I know of some people who lateraled to better banks after their first year and for a good chunk of their interview processes, they were mainly asked non-technical questions. Of course, some banks are notorious for throwing model tests and the like at you like Evercore but for the most part, banks trust that you have good experience in banking and can actually do the job. Again, fit is more important for them to assess for lateral candidates as well.
Anyone know any banks still recruiting? I was in the process at a few firms and sadly got dinged
You need to continue to network and look up the various banks' open positions. Never stop hustling (I know it's harder than it sounds but you never know when a position might become open and because you networked, you were able to get into the process compared to anyone else).
Banks definitely post open positions for even FT entry-level IB positions on their job boards. For example, there is currently a BB that is looking for two FT 2020 analysts and has posted this position for the past month. I don't want to outrightly say it but those who are even slightly serious about getting an FT IB position will do the research and apply to this posting/network their way in.
i've sent over 600 emails and had 50 chats since August.
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