Hi guys,
Can anyone opine on which of the top MM's and E-Boutiques are best? Especially the top MM's vs the boutiques that target the large deals. In terms of exit ops into PE, VC and top MBA's.
I am looking in to firms like Harris Williams, Baird, SunTrust, HLHZ compared to firms like Evercore, Jeffries, Perella Weinberg.
Thanks!
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I think you named them. Obviously there are others as well, but all you named are solid. HLHZ is in a different league than the other MMs you listed and I usually think of them more in the elite boutique category. FYI Baird finished SA recruiting in November.
My school has on-campus recruiting for Baird in January so that can't be true
Maybe they do OCR later? I know super days were held in Milwaukee and Chicago the 29th and 30th respectively. I'm not at a target for Baird but I know their SA class is only 7ish/office.
Minnebanker, in regards to placement the difference between elite boutiques vs MM is very different. Elite boutiques often are as good if not better than most BBs for PE or HFs. Generally, a list of the top boutiques would include Blackstone (M&A and RX), Lazard Freres, Evercore, Greenhill, Perella Weinberg, Centerview, Moelis, and potentially Qatalyst (Tech deals).
Top MM shops (not fully exhaustive) include Jefferies, HLHZ, Harris Williams, Baird, Blair, and most of the other large shops (RBC, Nomura, etc.).
If you can get an offer, I'd take the elite boutiques hand down over the MMs (personal preference).
Where does Sagent advisers stand in this list ? I am guessing EB but not certain.
For reference's sake, if you ever refer to Lazard or Evercore as a "boutique" in an interview, it's going to go over poorly. Also, it not "potentially Qatalyst" it's "Qatalyst is much better than all the other firms on this list right now."
Very few places like themselves referred to as a boutique. It is 'potentially Qatalyst' tough to discuss them in the same sentence- yes they are much better but also very specialized, much more so than the others. To the above- tough to compare Sagent and a place like WB or RWB that are 10x the size.
Thanks for the reply,
What about the difference between the top MMs? I feel like its pretty hard to rank them vs each other (Jeffries, HLHZ, HW, Baird, WB etc.)
MM just seems to be a name that captures everything else left (of really any decent size) after you take out the elite boutiques and BBs. You have firms like Jefferies, RBC, RBS (probably), Nomura- all of which are on the verge of becoming BBs or in some cases are (just in different parts of the world). Then you have places like Lincoln, Baird, Blair, HW&Co- smaller, true middle market players that do a lot of work with MM PE shops. It's pretty tough to categorize, but I would definitely separate those top 4 I listed (and maybe a few others)- worked in MM PE this summer and never saw any deals come our way from them.
So you're saying that smaller places that work on big deals (i.e. Jeffries, RBC) is better than a top MM (HW, WB)?
I think Sagent belongs in normal MM (below WB, Baird, HW?) but I am not very familiar with them
This designation is going to potentially sound fucking retarded, but I would call Sagent something along the lines of "Elite MM Boutique." Or stated otherwise, one could think about the scale differential as:
Greenhill : Barclays Sagent : Houlihan
Competes wells in their space, but with smaller economies of scale. Operates in the same competitive space for M&A, but maintains lean deal teams, close exposure to seniors, etc. Not necessarily better or worse, just a different experience.
Can someone place Suntrust, Lincoln, and Cowen in this list?
This is all pretty arbitrary. But anyways.
Lincoln is a true MM player- would put them in the same place as WB, RWB, HW (albeit maybe inferior to a few or all of those).
Cowen to me is more of a boutique real niche firm focusing on healthcare and some tech.
STRH I associate with places like RBC in the sense that they have a large regional commercial presence. However, IBD is not very strong and is incredibly regional, almost entirely in Atlanta and in the south, and in that sense they are almost in their own space.
Like I've been saying though, it is tough to break these down into clear cut categories.
hard to compare Sagent to a place like Blair or Baird because they offer so many types of services (ECM, ER, M&A, DCM, S&T, etc) where as Sagent/HW/Lincoln are pretty much pure sell-side M&A shops.
Jefferies is somewhere in the middle of a MM and BB since they also have a BS - hard to classify, since they do all kinds of deals.
Shops like Lazard/Evercore are pure strategic advisory firms that compete (or co-manage) with top BBs on M&A/RX deals.
So to answer your questions. First and foremost Suntrust, is no where near on the same tier as the other MMs you mentioned, but it is a great place to be at if you plan on living in the South.
In terms of exit opps to PE or HF, anything is possible, but you will have an easier time coming from a top strategic advisory firm like Lazard than from a place like HW. For VC it really depends on your deal experience and knowledge/passion about a particular industry. Lastly, assuming you have strong academic/GMAT credentials you will have a good shot at top MBAs coming from any of the shops you mentioned including several others.
I assume this statement is referring to megafund PE recruiting? If not, it is incorrect, as top MM banks like HW and WB have virtually 100% analyst placement to MM PE.
Lazard works on larger deals so of course they would have better placement to megafunds, but the top MM firms have excellent placement to PE firms that work in the MM space.
In response to the post about how middle market banks place just as well into non megafund PE as the top boutiques, that's absolutely not true at all. The good MM PE funds (New mountain, Berkshire, Madison Dearborn, etc) pretty much only take from top banks (GS and MS) and I can't see anyone from a middle market (or even a lower bulge bracket) getting interviews at these firms. Even many good middle market shops that are smaller will take candidates only from lazard, evercore, or the bulge brackets.
Yes, everyone from good mm banks might get offers at MM PE funds, but there's a world of difference between going to a top middle market shop that has $10 bn in aum, pays $250k or more, and sends all their associates to Harvard or Stanford business school and a fund with $500mm under management. In fact, I'd argue that there's a bigger gap between a top MM PE firm like new mountain and a $1 billion shop than between a KKR and Madison Dearborn per se. Saying that MM banks have just as good placement because all their candidates go to MM PE implies that there's not a big gap between name brand and weaker Mms, which is like saying that Duke and Skidmore are on par because they're both non Ivies
lazard's not really a boutique anymore, you get staffed into verticals
Yup, so is EVR.
Evercore does in fact have industry verticals for analysts. You get placed into one after like six months of working on generalist deals. There is also the GAG group (i think thats what it's called) which you can get placed in which covers multiple industries. This is for M&A; you apply separately for RX and I'm not sure if you get placed in a vertical for that.
Just call them Bulgetiques.
Well aside from the BB's and the "Bulgetiques" as BTBanker calls them, I am having trouble distinguishing between the rest of the firms in terms of exit ops and prestige i guess
Maybe get offers and then figure it out?
How would Stifel, GCA Savvian, Guggenheim, Imperial Capital, Duff & Phelps and Oppenheimer place into this list? All for IBD of course...
bump! :)
Solid MM firms but I would place all of them below the top MM tier of Harris Williams, William Blair, and HLHZ/Jefferies if you consider the latter two as MM.
Pay will be similar but deal flow and exit opportunities will be less attractive than the top tier MM firms.
^ i know they arent boutiques...but are good MMs nonetheless and some of them pay street (ex- Imperial, GCA, Guggenheim) so curious how they are looked at since some have good deal flow/are growing
^ Also interested. thanks.
Is RX big enough for verticals...? I feel like its not
^Bowser, how would you compare rothschild, gleacher and qatalyst to HW/WB?
Rothschild: I don't have much personal experience with them, but they seem to focus on larger deals than typical MM banks and thus are not a good comparison to HW/WB.
Gleacher: Used to be a great boutique but is on the decline with a big exodus of talent. I would stay away.
Qatalyst: Outstanding tech boutique that competes for the biggest tech deals out there. Completely different focus than MM banks like HW/WB.
I think it is very difficult to compare MM banks to boutiques due to the different focuses and business models.
Well then, which would place better, a top MM (HW/WB) vs a lower E-Boutique that works on big deals (HLHZ, Rothschild, Gleacher)
interesting...i've been to several HL info sessions and have had multiple rounds of interviews in 2 years with different groups and they have never called themselves an elite boutique or boutique or even elite for that matter. they're a MM by definition lol they deal with small/mid-cap public AND private companies all the time (look at the tombstones on the hl.com website, not public for lots of them) so this again refutes that they are elite or elite boutique. they also have many non-target kids and the ones i know that took offers from LA Colleges were kids that only had to take them for SA/FT since they couldnt get a BB or another better MM
everyone knows that aside from HL RX, they are a good back up if you dont get a BB or top MM (ex- HW, Blair, Jefferies etc). No one picks them over a BB like they would a Lazard, Moelis, Greenhill etc. (unless you get RX, their corp fin is okay and FAS isnt IB) so they are clearly NOT an elite boutique. sorry just annoying how people throw around terms on this forum and ignorantly classify shit
This is true - some firms just don't fit well into the "BB", "MM", "elite boutique", "true boutique" categorization structure that is thrown around on WSO so often. In terms of deal size, HL probably fits best into the MM category, but it's far more than most MM banks because it offers more services than most other MM banks. Another example is Lazard; everyone on this site likes to call them an elite boutique, and in terms of what they do and their deal size, that's probably the best category for them out of the ones I listed above, but they are by no means actually a boutique in the sense that they are more accurately described as a global financial advisory firm, which is how they also describe themselves. Truth be told, none of the elite boutiques are really only "pure play" M&A/RX boutiques (at least anymore). LAZ has capital markets activity as well as ancillary advisory services such as asset management, GHL has other fund raising services as well for PE and Real Estate funds, Moelis owns multiple asset management businesses, etc. Their IBD groups may be separate, but none of these firms are truly boutiques by only doing M&A (or RX), such as, for example, Miller Buckfire (which also touts capital markets activity as part of its offering, but I have a sneaking suspicion that part of this capital raise function is related to its primary activity of advising distressed companies).
Just want to clarify what you are saying here...You think HL is a backup for HW, Blair, and Jefferies? Based on what? It seems most people would place HL corp fin in the "top MM" bucket and probably above those listed (with Jefferies being a different type of firm with larger capital raising and attempting to participate outside of the middle market corps).
AnalystMonkey thanks for the clarification!
lol no problem. still a great firm nonetheless.
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