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Comments (94)

Apr 7, 2021 - 9:53am

Thought RBC was more of a lower BB? -> not sure if that effects their exit ops compared to the others.  I have heard that Blair and Barid have good exits and RJ could be alot tougher to exit from.  Just what I have heard antidotally. 

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Apr 13, 2021 - 12:55pm

Not sure. Maybe some people view rbc is more of a Wells tier where they are a balance sheet bank with a more well built out m&a and coverage presence compared to that of something like a bmo/nomura. So not necessarily a BB but just the upper tier of BS bank. Idk why it deserved MS tho these are all subjective and made up tiers to act as heuristics 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Apr 7, 2021 - 11:00am

RJ has good exits out of their tech group v solid into mm pe, not too sure of the other groups but fairly certain tech and services is their best for pe
 

Lincoln placed an analyst into audax past year and has solid placement into Chicago lmm/mm pe.
 

Hw is a top mm not lower, and places on par with the rest of the "top mm" banks. Arguably the most consistent pe placement of all the banks mentioned due to the outplacement program and culture on recruiting there.
 

Haven't really seen many cowen analysts in pe. Saw one or two at lower mm shops in tertiary cities but that's about it.

Just my thoughts and based on working in the space, conversations with friends at these shops, and looking through pe team profiles 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Apr 7, 2021 - 3:16pm

Jefferies (and RBC / WF) don't really belong in this discussion. They're in a weird null-zone between EBs/bulges and MM banks. They do a ton of large capital markets transactions, have somewhat larger average M&A deal sizes, and will randomly get some larger M&A mandates. 

When I think true MM I think churning out $75mm - $250MM sellsides constantly, which is what WB/Piper/Bair etc. do

Apr 9, 2021 - 11:55am

Would definitely consider RBC to be lower end to just regular BB. (Seeing as CS is considered fringe, I'd put RBC over the top) Correct me if I'm wrong though

Apr 13, 2021 - 1:06pm

Jefferies (and RBC / WF) don't really belong in this discussion. They're in a weird null-zone between EBs/bulges and MM banks. They do a ton of large capital markets transactions, have somewhat larger average M&A deal sizes, and will randomly get some larger M&A mandates. 

When I think true MM I think churning out $75mm - $250MM sellsides constantly, which is what WB/Piper/Bair etc. do

You think WF is the same caliber as Jefferies or RBC? What crack are you smoking

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Apr 7, 2021 - 4:19pm

Any insights into exits from non-tech groups at RJ? Know they have been growing the industrials practice a ton lately and have been doing some decent deals, but not sure if this is translating to strong exits?

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Apr 7, 2021 - 5:41pm

Bmo is again one of those weird ones like wf and rbc, but I'd put it somewhere between rbc and something like a Nomura/mizuho in terms of strength. This is purely M&A wise, as I don't work on the capital markets side. 

Apr 9, 2021 - 11:42am

Would definitely put WB in the top group, also Jef as arguably the #1 MM

I would classify top MM as ones that consistently hit 400m and top deals 800m+ or into the billions here and there.

Lower MM as ones that have top deal size below 300m. Middle tier sitting in between, many of the 'lower' banks you mention would be mid-tier by this standard.

Apr 9, 2021 - 2:06pm

You're right, I meant more along the lines of their *top* deals come in at that amount. I.e. Jeff/WB/Houlihan have top deals in high 100ms or in the Bs. If your top deal doesn't break 200-300m I think that puts you at lower MM.

  • Prospect in IB - Ind
Apr 9, 2021 - 11:56am

Interned at a MM before switching somewhere else for full-time. Obviously it varies by groups and other individual factors but broadly I'd group mm (including mm space balance sheet) bank exits like this 

- top: HL, Jefferies - MM and UMM PE are well in reach and MF possible for best groups (hl rx, jeff healthcare). Generally, these two line up with places like UBS/DB/Rothschild/Gugg etc for exits

- RBC

- mid/top: Baird, HW, WB - great banks, probably the best culture and good exits into MM PE

- mid/lower: RJ, Piper, BMO/Nomura/Mizuho - LMM/MM PE exits and one-off great placements for some really strong groups (rj tech) but exits gets harder at this level compared to above banks

- lower: Stifel, Oppenheimer, Lincoln, Truist - LMM and some MM PE exits but again just gets tough compared to top mm

By no means would I pick an offer just based on exit rankings though, if you're a top analyst wherever you'll get love and if you're bad at wherever you won't

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Apr 9, 2021 - 1:57pm

Would probably switch Lincoln and mizuho. Lincoln has definitely been getting better and mizuho does no m&a/has virtually no pe exits. Not too familiar on Nomura but have heard second hand it's similar to mizuho.

Also HL has too much variation and would split it up as HL RX which is a top RX platform and HL m&a which is more in line with WB, Baird, HW 

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Apr 9, 2021 - 4:14pm

Agree with the poster above. Lincoln should certainly be grouped in with the mid/lower group and Mizuho down a level.  

  • Director in IB - Ind
May 25, 2021 - 2:48pm

Agree with the comment on Lincoln. Much rather be at Lincoln cranking out $250M sellsides than somewhere like Truist/Nomura/BMO where the M&A dealflow is extremely choppy or nonexistent and you're mainly working on lending and capital markets stuff

To be clear, I'd rather be at Truist or BMO where at least you have a chance to do M&A at some point. I have never come across Nomura, Mizuho or any of the other Asian banks, pretending to have M&A advisory in the U.S.

  • VP in IB - Gen
Apr 9, 2021 - 12:29pm

Think RBC is it's own tier at this point, maybe alongside UBS where they are a large bank that does a lot of capital markets work, have average M&A deal sizes in line with the top MM but also now on then get on deals that are BB size.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Apr 9, 2021 - 3:44pm

Curious to see where Stephens stand? Specifically with the NY office. Also any info on DC Advisory? Is it more of a boutique or MM?

  • Incoming Analyst in IB-M&A
Apr 9, 2021 - 7:10pm

dc advisory id put as being similar to lincoln given the cross border volume and middle market focus, but probably below lincoln in terms of exits. Can't opine much on stephens ny, iirc its a consumer team there that does a lot of pitching but good personalities/culture

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Apr 12, 2021 - 1:13am

I have also heard the M&A is very elite and ppl put it with EB banks. If u guys get an offer there take it!

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Apr 11, 2021 - 11:17pm

Caveat that this is only for global advisory. Rothschild rx is much "better" for exits/prestige than their coverage groups.
 

I would say Rothschild is more like jefferies than the others. Avg deal size is roughly 800m whereas Blair/baird/hw are around ~400m. I'd say that exits in pe are slightly better, but there's also the geographical advantage of the New York office compared to blair/baird/hw. Think they're close enough that you would pick based on culture/geography than just brand name alone. Similar to jefferies 

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Apr 12, 2021 - 1:15am

Rothschild from what I have heard is the same some of the other mm banks like HW, Truist, Baird (mid tier) 

  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
Apr 13, 2021 - 2:25pm

Ton of misinformation on this forum. RBC isn't really a MM firm because they don't do high volume sponsor sell-sides. Not going to debate whether they're a BB but clearly unlike any of the other shops you listed here. Jefferies does more MM sell sides but wouldn't say it's their bread and butter. HL does do high volume MM sell sides

Top: HL, William Blair (may be the best shop in Chicago), Harris Williams, Baird in that order
Lower: Lincoln, RJ, Cowen >>> Stifel

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