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Comments (43)
Thought RBC was more of a lower BB? -> not sure if that effects their exit ops compared to the others. I have heard that Blair and Barid have good exits and RJ could be alot tougher to exit from. Just what I have heard antidotally.
Sould say lower bank exits usually are to hire banks from my experience
You mean laterals right?
Hw is not a lower mm. Exits are as good as the rest of the "top" mm
Yeah I think OP has some misleading data about where certain groups stand.
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Learn moreDefinitely possible. Don't know a ton about MM exits and that's why I asked
RJ has good exits out of their tech group v solid into mm pe, not too sure of the other groups but fairly certain tech and services is their best for pe.
Lincoln placed an analyst into audax past year and has solid placement into Chicago lmm/mm pe.
Hw is a top mm not lower, and places on par with the rest of the "top mm" banks. Arguably the most consistent pe placement of all the banks mentioned due to the outplacement program and culture on recruiting there.
Haven't really seen many cowen analysts in pe. Saw one or two at lower mm shops in tertiary cities but that's about it.
Just my thoughts and based on working in the space, conversations with friends at these shops, and looking through pe team profiles
Very helpful, thanks you!
Cowen may have a harder time because for a long time they seemed to be very ECM heavy.
Does anyone know if Oppenheimer would be considered a "lower MM" or a "top MM", as well how the firm is viewed across the street?
Middle of the pack with sometime considered higher end
Personally never seen it grouped with the upper tier mm.
How about Wells Fargo
While rankings are dumb, here is my take:
Top: Add Jefferies, move up HW, RBC is not MM so I guess its above, Piper Sandler, and I would add Macquarie just cause they do good work.
Lower: Add Stifel, other BS banks like Nomura and Mizuho
Jefferies (and RBC / WF) don't really belong in this discussion. They're in a weird null-zone between EBs/bulges and MM banks. They do a ton of large capital markets transactions, have somewhat larger average M&A deal sizes, and will randomly get some larger M&A mandates.
When I think true MM I think churning out $75mm - $250MM sellsides constantly, which is what WB/Piper/Bair etc. do
Average deal size at Baird/Blair is closer to $400-$500MM. The range you referenced is more indicative of the "lower mm" banks, like Lincoln, Stifel, etc.
Would definitely consider RBC to be lower end to just regular BB. (Seeing as CS is considered fringe, I'd put RBC over the top) Correct me if I'm wrong though
Any insights into exits from non-tech groups at RJ? Know they have been growing the industrials practice a ton lately and have been doing some decent deals, but not sure if this is translating to strong exits?
Would BMO Capital Markets be classified as a top MM or low BB?
Bmo is again one of those weird ones like wf and rbc, but I'd put it somewhere between rbc and something like a Nomura/mizuho in terms of strength. This is purely M&A wise, as I don't work on the capital markets side.
I would say neither, they are more of a MM, but not on the same level as Blair / Baird.
BMO being on a higher or lower level than Blair/Baird?
Holy shit the term is BALANCE SHEET BANK
Lol for some reason i blanked thanks man
My understanding is that BMO is largely MM, but looks to compete with BB firms in Lev Fin space
Where would Stifel be?
Lower MM
Would definitely put WB in the top group, also Jef as arguably the #1 MM
I would classify top MM as ones that consistently hit 400m and top deals 800m+ or into the billions here and there.
Lower MM as ones that have top deal size below 300m. Middle tier sitting in between, many of the 'lower' banks you mention would be mid-tier by this standard.
Yeah by that logic I don't think any MM bank comes close. JEF has an avg. M&A deal size of more than $800mil.
You're right, I meant more along the lines of their *top* deals come in at that amount. I.e. Jeff/WB/Houlihan have top deals in high 100ms or in the Bs. If your top deal doesn't break 200-300m I think that puts you at lower MM.
Interned at a MM before switching somewhere else for full-time. Obviously it varies by groups and other individual factors but broadly I'd group mm (including mm space balance sheet) bank exits like this
- top: HL, Jefferies - MM and UMM PE are well in reach and MF possible for best groups (hl rx, jeff healthcare). Generally, these two line up with places like UBS/DB/Rothschild/Gugg etc for exits
- RBC
- mid/top: Baird, HW, WB - great banks, probably the best culture and good exits into MM PE
- mid/lower: RJ, Piper, BMO/Nomura/Mizuho - LMM/MM PE exits and one-off great placements for some really strong groups (rj tech) but exits gets harder at this level compared to above banks
- lower: Stifel, Oppenheimer, Lincoln, Truist - LMM and some MM PE exits but again just gets tough compared to top mm
By no means would I pick an offer just based on exit rankings though, if you're a top analyst wherever you'll get love and if you're bad at wherever you won't
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Would probably switch Lincoln and mizuho. Lincoln has definitely been getting better and mizuho does no m&a/has virtually no pe exits. Not too familiar on Nomura but have heard second hand it's similar to mizuho.
Also HL has too much variation and would split it up as HL RX which is a top RX platform and HL m&a which is more in line with WB, Baird, HW
Agree with the poster above. Lincoln should certainly be grouped in with the mid/lower group and Mizuho down a level.
Agree with the comment on Lincoln. Much rather be at Lincoln cranking out $250M sellsides than somewhere like Truist/Nomura/BMO where the M&A dealflow is extremely choppy or nonexistent and you're mainly working on lending and capital markets stuff
Think RBC is it's own tier at this point, maybe alongside UBS where they are a large bank that does a lot of capital markets work, have average M&A deal sizes in line with the top MM but also now on then get on deals that are BB size.
Curious to see where Stephens stand? Specifically with the NY office. Also any info on DC Advisory? Is it more of a boutique or MM?
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