Toronto or Waterloo?

Disjoint has a point.

Go to Ivey if they accept you. Better still, try to get into McGill.

If not U of Toronto is the next best bet. Never heard of Waterloo, must be a really sucky school.

Did you apply for the bba co-op program at university of toronto. If so its pretty sub par for banking recruitment so neither are any good for consulting or ibanking. Go to the one where you can get a higher gpa and transfer to ivey for third year.

If you get accepted into ivey right now, go there. That's on a purely banking recruitment standpoint. You seem to have a lot of uncertainty so I probably wouldn't choose a school based solely on that.

Others have covered it already, but do NOT go to a school based on who will be going with you. That is a huge mistake. People change over those four years and the friend you enter with might not be your friend coming out of school.

@Disjoint: I don't blame you for having that kind of view, but I don't fit with your pot-smoking pussy-hunting high school student. I've only been to one "party" where pot was involved, and it was really a school band trip anyway. I stayed inside and told the stoners to do it on the balcony at the hotel. Pot smells like shit. I had a hangover a few months ago and I haven't had a drop of alcohol since, that shit is bad for you anyways. I also go to an all-guys school and I don't have a girlfriend (along with more than half of my class, we're a bunch of shy people haha =.=). Those what-ifs you mentioned are highly unlikely.

Your story about the high school sweet heart is funny, reminds me of my friend who's going to Waterloo for chemical engineering. He dumped his girlfriend so that he wouldn't be tied down. She still wants to be with him but he ignores her entirely haha... you seem like the complete opposite of him from what you said. Man, as long as you don't regret it anymore I think it's fine.

As for the school atmosphere; I think Toronto wins.

Didn't apply to McGill, the idea of going to Montreal irks me. And no, I didn't apply to any undergraduate business programs.

@tdot: Yeah, that's why I didn't apply to any undergraduate business programs. Even if I want to do it later I just have to work hard and keep that option open since HBA can be entered in third year. I don't know where I'd get the higher GPA though... wouldn't Ivey take that into consideration though? I'm sure I can't just go to lets say Nipissing University and get a 4.0 GPA and guarantee a spot at Ivey (Not trying to diss Nipissing here, but I'm just trying to make a point).

Nihil,

I am currently studying at Waterloo, enrolled in the Mathematics/Chartered Accountancy. I don't think UW is very well known in the IBanking/Consulting circles but that doesn't mean you won't be able to get in. I personally know people who were in math, and did their co-op terms at ML (T-dot office), and JPM (NY office).

Whether you'll be able to get the marks required to get into one of those firms is a different question. Waterloo might not be very well known for business-related disciplines, but it definitely has the best mathematics program in the country. With the amount of funding we've been getting from RIM (their main facilities are within ~10 min walk from campus ), the school has been hiring a lot of really smart people, some of which are concentrated purely on research and some are actually teaching... Frankly, I think you'll have a far better chance of getting the marks you need at UofT (no offence to UofT...).

ps. Living with a girl might not be such a bad idea, actually. It might make you stay organized, and maybe even clean your room once in a while. Strange things happen to those nice looking dorms when u got 2 guy friends living there. After a while you might stop being able to find your books, notes, etc. - I'd give the girl a chance.

hope this helps a bit, and don't hesitate to ask, if you've got more questions about waterloo programs.

UofT and Waterloo are not the best choices if you wish to enter banking/consulting. While Ivey may seem expensive, it will give you great recruiting prospects in either field.

If you wish to enter Ivey after two years, you need a 3.7+ (80%).

Whatever you decide, do NOT base it on what your friends are doing.

Waterloo, Waterloo, Waterloo go there. All S&T firms recruit there, so does Barclays for NYC and London. You will need very good stats in the single degree though if you want to goto NYC, most of the double degrees get the top trading jobs at UW. I know people who just did internships at MS S&T and JPM S&T in NY, who were double degrees with 85 averages or so.

I know a bunch of UW kids on bay st, in banking/trading/structuring. More in trading, not sure why as a math grad you want to do banking really, since trading would fit much more. But if you want to get to NYC you will need to work hard, and get good ECs.

If your gonna do math, it's hands down Waterloo. Probably best math program anywhere. Most of the banks that recruit here are looking for math/engineer types for their S&T jobs like adehbone said..

Business at Waterloo's not that great.. I'm in the Accounting and Financial Management (AFM) program, and it's probably the closest thing to Business in Waterloo, but I don't think it compares to Commerce at Toronto, after all Toronto's where all the jobs are anyways.. Most of the people in this program has accounting and the Big 4 as their life goals. And I don't think there's alot of IB/consulting going on here at Waterloo, more tech/trading jobs for math and engineers. I'll be doing co-op next term so I'll see how that works out..

As for marks, AFM @ Waterloo is pretty easy for marks. (first year)

Like I said earlier, everything is very vague to me right now since I don't know enough to make a good decision - which is why I'm on this forum =P

I plan to work in Toronto but that's in four to five years so you never know. I don't have any plans to go to NYC or anywhere in the States except for school. Hong Kong is also a possibility.

What's S&T?

Note: I'm not very keen on investment banking, but consulting sounds very interesting to me.

If you aren't sure about what you want to do career wise, don't feel the need to rush or decide!

At this point, focus on what's in front of you.

In my view, if you really love math for its own sake (you're a math nerd and proud of it), then you should go to Waterloo - it's got the best math program in Canada, and you'll likely be in the best school that nurtures and celebrates the math nerd-dom -- giving you the ideal environment for you to be with like-minded souls (again, if you are a math nerd).

On the other hand, if you're not a hardcore math nerd and you feel that the math thing may just be an initial jumping off point that may or may not lead to other interests/majors/subjects/disciplines, you should go to UofT -- the university experience there will simply be a lot broader than at Waterloo in terms of the academic options and overall student community. The flipside of that is being in Toronto (and getting a lot of students who already live in Toronto), it can feel more like a commuter school than Waterloo - where 90%+ of the students aren't originally from Kitchener-Waterloo. In other words, it may be harder to make friends or to "find your niche" at a larger urban commuter-type school like UofT compared to Waterloo.

I really don't think there's any real benefit to even thinking about careers until maybe your junior year (third year). Take full advantage of your first two years to really explore (and try not to get sucky grades). On balance, you'll have decent job options coming out of either school so it shouldn't really sway your decision since you don't really know what you want to do career wise anyhow.

As for undergrad business programs, my opinion is admittedly biased based on my own values and experiences -- in my view, I would avoid undergrad business. It's more of a job placement program than an education. You can always go back from an MBA later on in the future.

Alex Chu

To everyone, thanks for your advice - the more information I can get my hands on, the better.

Currently I am leaning towards Waterloo, and my "career" goals still remain undecided.

Before I share my perspective with you, an intro: I did my first 2 years at UW Math (dean's list) and then transferred to Ivey for years 3 & 4. For starters, you have some pretty legit advice up there.

Your best bet is to goto Western into the Applied Math program. Once there take the required courses, do some extra stats and econ courses. Of course also take Biz 020 and Biz 257 which are the pre-reqs for Ivey. Goto Ivey in year 3 and then decide if you want to pursue both your HBA and BSc App. Math.

Let me tell you why this is your best bet.

First, your decision is much more complex and should be thouroughly looked at from more than from a recruiting angle. This is your fucking UNDERGRAD man.

1. Your experience and success at uni will depend on who you are, your performance and the decisions you make. So don't over think this -- do the analysis, go with your gut and then enjoy life!

2. The personalities of all 3 schools are totally different. UofT (as above) is a commuter school and your uni experience will be diluted because of it. The campus is sprawled across TO, meaning there really isn't much of a core campus where most students hang out, where you bump into people etc. Basically, UofT is not in a "college town" like some of the best US and Canadian schools are ... Western is a huge party school, but I'm sure there's something there for everyone to the extent that I will assure you that you'll enjoy yourself the most there. Waterloo has a conspicuous lack of personality, and in terms of the student experience it's down right lacking!

3. Seems as though you're (most) interested in Consulting, yet would like to have your options open, and are also interested in math. Doing Ivey + the math at Western will broaden your horizons academically and also practically. The case method at Ivey is great for this (expanding your perspectives), while the app. math will give you a solid quant grounding. After exploring both you can make the most educated career decision possible. The UW math curriculum is notorious for being extremely focused.
   Next, Consulting recruiting at Waterloo is absolutely horrible. McKinsey (best consulting firm) hires one random engineering student a year. But when you look at the other top firms, both Ivey and UofT do much better, with Ivey taking the cake. Plus, the HBA with its extensive application of the case method and broad range subjects will give you a great business sense and will likely be most appealing to someone who enjoys consulting-style stuff. Lastly, Ivey also helps you through deciding what you want to do ... at Waterloo this process is very DIY ... even if you get the best job in your year at UW - this might well be trading exotic interest rate derivatives at BarCap UK or trading pension liabilities at Lehman. This is extrememly focused (and kind of random) stuff ...

4. You want to recruit in Toronto mainly. Ivey sets you up the best for that. Hands down. I went to Waterloo, I know guys who've worked at these New York S&T firms adehbone mentioned. First of all, since when do all S&T firms recruit at Waterloo ... this is ridiculous. (Unless things have changed dramatically in the last 2 years). I know guys working at BarCap, DB, Citigroup, Merrill, and some Canadian banks out of UW and even interned at one myself. But these jobs are extremely few and far apart. Also, UW students are generally hired straight onto a desk, usually a very quant desk, meaning once you're at the firm, your options are quite limited (you can clearly still move around, but that's not the firm's intention). Similarly, UW and even double degree kids do not get much attention from investment banking groups (as I said mainly niche desks pick them up). So Nihil, if you want to work in TO, then from a recruiting standpoint there's no advantage to being at UW (even if you want S&T)

Hope you can make your decison soon!

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dunno, but i'd go with Waterloo.

If you don't even know what S&T is, maybe you should just relax and go where you'll be happiest.