Unemployed and living in parents' basement, losing hope

freydo's picture
Rank: Senior Monkey | 82

Graduated in December, moved back to my parents' because I'm a worthless human being. Have applied to ~500 jobs, have had 10 phone interviews, 1 in-person interview. Have contacted ~80 alumni, barely any responses. Day after day, its the same fucking thing. Sending my resume/application into a black hole, refreshing my email, looking at LinkedIn/Indeed, etc. I have read the WSO networking and behavioral guide, talked to an interview coach, etc.

My parents live in the middle of fucking nowhere and I'm applying to jobs all over the country. Such a demoralizing process. I've lost any bit of hope. I started drinking a 6-pack of piss water beer every night and playing video games to keep myself somewhat sane. Deleted all social media so I don't have to see people live non-miserable lives. I barely even talk to anyone anymore. Life is pointless and I don't know how much longer I can handle living like this.

Comments (121)

Feb 20, 2019

I graduated in 08'. Not exactly the best time to get out in the job market. I had issues finding work as well. What I ended up doing was getting in with a Investment Advisory firm and my interview was essentially

"look, I want no part of this career. at all. but I'm desperate. so lets call it what it is. you want to pay me shit and I want your contacts"

So for the next year or so I was paid horseshit but I spent that year talking to all of the advisors in that office and getting to meet business owners, bankers, etc. to get my name out there. It was a terrible damn year but I did what I had to.

    • 7
Feb 22, 2019

You should SIT ON YOUR ASS, start playing WORLD OF WARCRAFT and drink MOUNTAIN DEW

Or alternatively you can refuse to give up, stop feeling sorry for yourself, apply to 500 more places, and GET THE JOB you unemployed fuck

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Feb 27, 2019

Never give up on your stupid dreams you fucking cry baby pussy

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Controversial
Feb 20, 2019

"learn to code" (free from youtube, freecodecamp.org and many others)

just learning this basic skill (for free, in your parents basement) can get you a job paying ~100k, in almost any industry...and then you can lateral from there.

This should be a pre-requisite in our schools....no idea why its not.

just google it...you're welcome

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Feb 26, 2019

Bullshit. Most coding jobs are outsourced.

    • 1
Feb 26, 2019

search for javascript, python, or any other modern programming language on indeed, in any major city, and you will fund hundreds of positions.

just google it...you're welcome

Feb 20, 2019

Stay hungry man. Usually the biggest breakthroughs happen when you're just about to give up but instead you keep going. If you keep going you will be successful. Did you think this would be easy? Be easier on yourself.

Spend some of the time you're playing games/drinking to instead analyze your interviews. What went well? What didn't? You must stay focused. Watch videos on personal development. Maybe your resume needs a face lift? There is always room for improvement.

If you don't like the results you're getting you need to work more on yourself to be able to add value; also important is the ability to demonstrate your capacity to add value. Are you tailoring your resume for each application? Could you be doing more preparation? Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results. You need to go back into the lab and re-calibrate your approach.

Here's a video to get your mind right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiVkYo7ci7g

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Feb 20, 2019

No I didn't think it would be easy but I'm not even applying to front office roles. It's hard to "analyze" interviews, no clue where I'm going wrong. Like I said I've read the behavioral interview guide and M&I articles, and have my answers outlined.

I'm using the M&I resume template and I've had people look at mine. No I'm not tailoring my resume for each application because all of them are shit entry level roles, and I'd be getting diminishing returns.

Tony Robbins lol. I think thats a sign that maybe I'm destined to do MLM on Instagram.

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Feb 20, 2019

Take what the brofessor has said to heart. Really solid advice for you. Stay strong and best of luck.

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Feb 20, 2019

Go slum it on the couch with a few of your friends in big cities for a few days, and set up info meetings with companies you want to meet with beforehand. "I'm in town the week of the xth, Do you have a few minutes to meet for coffee one morning?" You'll probably have more success with reaching out to alumni / cold info interview requests, and it'll help you get back to reality and keep connected with your friends

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Most Helpful
Feb 20, 2019

first things first, if your mind goes to a really bad place, take a step back. I realize things seem hopeless and listening to people who "have it made" can feel like a waste of time. most people have had ups and downs in life. I was laid off in the financial crisis, it took me thousands of cold calls before I had any clients, I had my meal plan based off of coupons and free subs, worked out at home because I couldn't afford the gym, and spent some nights contemplating ending it all. I can't claim to know what you're feeling, but we've all been to dark places.

now, realize you're 2 months removed from graduation...that's not that long. it took me maybe 9 months to find a good job, and I'm sure it's taken others longer if they didn't have the predetermined path of summer associate jobs with return offers. so while it's frustrating as hell to not have something after graduation, it's still early brah

couple of random thoughts

  1. are you aiming too high? I know you've said you're applying a lot of places, but are you applying to front office jobs at places you have no shot? look, I'm at a point where I could compete against the big boys, but if I look at myself when I was your age, I had no business applying any of those places. give some thought to lowering the bar. not saying you shouldn't reach, but all goals should be realistic.
  2. what exactly is your approach? be really specific. something tells me you're casting such a wide net that you physically cannot follow through on every opp you're chasing, and without any hustle, you get rejected, and when you get rejected you get dejected. here's what I would do if I had to find a job today and assuming I had a view job postings I was curious about: find someone I know who works there or someone in the organization, call them. yes, call them. I'm also not above waiting in a lobby for when they have a minute. tell them you want to learn more about the position and are considering applying but wanted to be sure it was a good fit. this is absolutely doin too much in channels like IB, but I get the sense you're not looking for IB, so you can throw out that playbook. then, if it is a fit, apply online and get a sense of when you can expect to hear back. assume 2 weeks. call after 15 days, if you get someone, ask them when they expect to make the next step in the process (interviews most likely), ask them if they mind if you follow up at that time, if they say yes they mind, stop right there, they'll likely say no or give you a half assed "sure that's fine." again, follow up 1 day after their deadline. they'll get the sense you're serious. if you do this enough times (AND ARE CONSISTENT WITH FOLLOWUP) you will get job offers, guaranteed.
  3. how are you reaching out to alums? are you just asking for advice, or you doing something specific. if I were in your shoes, say I wanted to move across the country and work for a pharma company. "hey, I noticed you're at ABC medical, I've got no experience in the industry but am contemplating making a change. can I steal you for 10 minutes during your commute and pick your brain?" some will tell you to fuck off, some will accept. this is an informational interview, and I cannot stress enough how important this is: DO NOT ASK FOR A JOB, ASK FOR ADVICE. a couple of things could happen: you get good advice and make a next step (good), you get bad advice or the sense that this is a terrible job (also good), you get an introduction (even better). your goal is to get intel, I'd usually ask the question "what would you do if you were in my shoes?" and "is there anyone else in this field you think I should be talking to?"
  4. what has your interview coach said? my gut tells me it might be your process (not following up) rather than you, but that could be wrong. I've seen so many kids with good looking resumes that just present absolutely awfully, and while I've got the stones to tell them how to improve, many times people just go "well fuck that guy, he stunk" and never give you any guidance, so there's a possibility you just aren't good interviewing but haven't had anyone tell you this
  5. how are your soft skills? is your shirt pressed, your posture good, your breath fresh, your hair cut, etc? that stuff matters
  6. stop self medicating. use alcohol and video games as a reward, not as a vice. you won't have interview success every day, but you can always accomplish something, whether that's researching a new potential job market, making a list of places to call, making a certain number of calls, whatever. don't reward yourself until you've achieved something. I still do this today, if I had a bad week (lost a client to death or something, lost in final rounds to another firm, etc.), you better believe i'm not out there partying after work. the first thing I do is reflect and ask myself how I can get better. you can't solve those problems right away, but you can make honest self assessments in the moment and this will eventually help you improve. then, and only then, do you crack open a beer

finally, I would not write off therapy if the psychological aspect gets significantly dark if you still haven't found something 6 months out.

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Feb 20, 2019

1) No I don't think so, i'm not even applying to FO positions. I've applied to a few FO roles as hail marys but I didn't count them in my "~500"

2) My approach is basically applying for any financial analysis role in a few different cities on Indeed or LinkedIn. No I haven't been cold-calling places, most job postings now-a-days say not to contact their professionals.

3) I've contacted like 80, using a few different templates from the networking guide.

4) Interview coach told me to apply for any analytical type role and to get repetitions in. What do you mean following up? I don't follow up to job applications or even after HR phone interviews, because I don't want to seem desperate or annoying. Obviously I could improve on presenting or selling myself, because whatever I'm doing isn't good enough. Which is why i'm applying for analytical roles, not to be a fucking salesman

5) Yeah I have two tailored suits (not like I use them anyway) and everything is dry cleaned. Just paid $200 for a professional headshot too (scam). Yes fresh breath and nice haircut, I'm not socially inept or homeless. (Once upon a time, a long time ago when I wasn't a basement dweller, I used to talk to girls.)

6) How else am I supposed to feel something?

Therapists are a scam too. "Oh, just go outside, take a hike and get some sun, start looking at everything from a positive point of view." Amazing, here's $150 for 30 minutes of your time

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Feb 20, 2019

I can tell you're upset. I will try to help you here, but take what I'm about to say very seriously: your attitude determines your altitude. you have a defeatist mentality, and that's understandable at the moment, but if you respond to me the way you respond to criticism, you might as well give up on ANY hopes of getting a good job. lose the attitude or you really are hopeless.

there's your reality check, now onto advice.

(not responding in order)

your reluctance to call/follow up sounds like the issue. hustle is key. follow up is key. I'll say it again, here's a good way to get employed: get informational interviews to get the lay of the land, get advice during said interviews, take said advice. when it comes time to apply, you likely know the company, know the market, or at least know the hiring person. apply, and then follow up. it's only desperate or annoying if your approach is wrong. on your comment about most postings saying not to contact, it's a free country, there's nothing prohibiting you from contacting them for informational interviews and then referencing your conversations during your actual application/cover letter.

in reaching to alumni, it's quality not quantity, heed my advice about informational interviews here, I'm not responding to a template email from anyone, and I doubt this has led to a ton of great job offers in general

by following up, I mean exactly what I said. call 2 weeks after you apply, be nice on the phone, speak to the HR person, find out the process. perhaps there's multiple rounds, I've been told "hey, thanks for calling, but we've got until end of quarter before we close down incoming applications, so don't expect to start reviewing them until then," I might ask "so if I am to hear about a potential interview, it won't be until after then?" if they say yes, then you have your follow up window. call a couple days to a week after quarter end. if they want you out of the pile, they will tell you. this won't work all of the time, but it does work.

I've personally weeded people out who never followed up and I know many HR people act this way. if a HR manager has 100 applicants and only 3 follow up, guess who's making it obvious they actually want the job?

more on this: think about if someone were to hire you for being a tutor. let's say you had only 2 spots and 12 kids wanted to be tutored by you, all with relatively similar backgrounds, how do you pick? well, if one of the kids emailed you saying how excited he was for the opportunity to learn, he might go to the "yes" stack versus the recycling bin. if, however, someone just sent a resume off with no context, no follow up, no cover letter, no reference, I would assume they're just trying to tell the unemployment office that they're looking, or that they don't really want the job they're applying for.

on drinking and gaming, you will feel something if you treat these as rewards rather than vices

I wish you the best of luck.

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Feb 20, 2019

Yeah, hard to keep a good attitude and there's no point in being positive or getting your hopes up when it consistently just leads to being let down. It's not like I bring an attitude when talking to an interviewer. I appreciate the advice/criticism but I'm mostly playing devils advocate because it's all stuff that's regurgitated on this site. I am from a non-target and there is no pride that comes with being alumni of said school. So it isn't as easy as just "reaching out to alumni".

That whole following up thing seems unconventional and weird. Maybe I should just go to their front desk/office and beg for the job on my knees.

One major problem there is that I can't even get any informational interviews and I'm running out of options. The "templates" are tailored each time a little bit.

I often get a rejection email from the company within a few days so I can't necessarily follow up.

Your logic is flawed in the tutor analogy, and I would tutor whoever paid me the most.

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Feb 20, 2019

this post tells me everything I need to know, you're beyond help. sorry for your predicament and I'm sorry I wasted my time trying to help

I hope things turn around for you

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Feb 20, 2019

Why call out for help if you're just going to reject the advice from those who you sought it from? We've already achieved the success you wish for and are trying to help you. Sure, our advice may not be congruent with your current view, but your results speak for themselves (and so do ours). You need to make adjustments - we are giving you some actionable steps.

Don't let your anger and frustration get the best of you. Accept what we have said as truth, channel your frustration and go kick some ass.

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Feb 20, 2019

I'm the resident sucker on WSO. I can't even recall how many times someone has asked for my help and then argued with my advice because it's not what they wanted to hear. anyone who asks for help and then doesn't believe the advice is either delusional or a complainer (more than likely, they just want to complain).

if you try to help people, you will run into ungrateful ones, the trick is not letting it spoil your view of humanity.

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Feb 20, 2019

Yes I hear you! A good number of people seek advice but are not prepared to truly listen.

Feb 20, 2019

You must've completely missed the part where I said "I appreciate the advice", "I've tried reaching out to alumni", "I've read the behavioral and network guide", etc.

There was also the advice of "just learn the basic skill of coding" in this thread. Ah yes, the oh so simple skill of coding. I should just go learn the basic skill of Java programming

And yes there is a fine line between being delusional and being positive.

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Feb 20, 2019

if you are spending time drinking and playing video games...well...that time would be better spent learning to code (Python, then Keras if you want to go work in finance....JavaScript if you want a career backup option as a web developer)

there is nothing wrong with learning the skills to get a 100k entry level tech job, getting said job...and then continuing to interview for finance jobs in the meantime. If you need to make money to buy food and pay rent...then this is a reasonable thing to do.

or you can choose.....Darwinism i guess...

and btw...i went to a state school with 18k+ students....not "elite" or target anything...my first job in finance was mostly VBA and SQL (entry level stuff)...worked up to being a desk quant over a number of years...and then got a seat on a trading desk....and now i'm a prop trader.

just google it...you're welcome

Feb 20, 2019

the part where you said you should go to their office and beg on your knees tells me you're not taking this advice seriously.

look, I came from a non target that doesn't even have a football team, hardly any tenured business professors, etc, so don't use that excuse with me.

I'm suggesting that what you've tried isn't working, and to try a different approach, the one I outlined above. I'm not saying you need to send me a thank you note, but a little less attitude when someone's trying to help you would be nice.

I'm not saying you should be a coder, I'm suggesting you change your attitude and change your approach. your unwillingness to try either is very telling, and is likely the source of your failure.

insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. if your current approach doesn't work, why don't you try something new? I've given you something to try, and the first thing you do is dismiss it? I understand being down in the dumps, but cmon man

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Feb 20, 2019

What exactly do you even do and when is the last time you even applied for a job? There isn't contact info of someone for me to just ~reach out to~ in job postings..

I'm aware that what I've been doing clearly hasn't been working

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Feb 20, 2019

I remember going for a mortgage with my wife and the mortgage broker telling us "well (wife) you don't need your husband to co-sign for this mortgage as your salary is more than sufficient". I jokingly, but knowingly, asked if the same would apply for me, if I could apply with just my income "no. no you cannot" as the mortgage broker looked at me dead pan, not even giving me the courtesy laugh. At this time I was working 12-15 hour days, eating PB&J and studying for the CFA program. Life fucking sucked man and sadly I looked at my spouse as the silver lining, not because of our relationship (which was great, not diminishing that). But because her salary afforded me a place to live and that I can make a PB&J sandwich for the day and not have to ration one out over three which my salary afforded me.

Remember marketing myself and meeting with people knowing I had to cover the coffee/lunch and wondering if there was enough money in the account to not go NSF on me.

You're in a shitty spot it seems. Definitely. But man, you're not the only one. I went to a CFA xmas mixer two years ago. Remember bitching to my coworker on the way there about how shitty the week was. We get there and this son of a bitch comes up to me, introduces himself and then within 30 seconds offers to work for free for me. Really put shit into perspective that the grind is real and that though I had to have a shit period to get to where I'm comfortable at, others are willing to work for free just to get out there. I'm not saying do that but I'm just saying that of the 500 applications you sent, 500 people may have thought outside the box to avoid putting a post like you did just now. To avoid eating PB&J for a year like I did. To avoid offering to work for free like that dude did.

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Feb 20, 2019

Don't be so hostile, freydo. Your last sentence acknowledging that your approach hasn't been working is the first step!

Now, you must improve your approach; that's why you created this post, correct? We are attempting to help you.

There is a lot of valuable information here for you to absorb whether or not you realize it yet.

Pro tip: Break down your large goals into simple, achievable, daily routines/targets. For example, since you've applied to so many positions, a new routine could be to do 30 push ups and then make one follow up phone call every day. Nothing more. Then you can work up to 40 push ups and two calls. Soon, you'll be physically feeling better, will have made the proper follow up calls and will have kept your conversation skills sharp for your next interview.

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Feb 20, 2019

Jesus christ, first you guys don't even think I brush my teeth or cut my hair, now you don't even think I can do 40 push ups?

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Funniest
Feb 20, 2019

I mean, I can't do 40 push ups....

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Feb 21, 2019
freydo:

Jesus christ, first you guys don't even think I brush my teeth or cut my hair, now you don't even think I can do 40 push ups?

Am I supposed to find this hilarious? Im a bad person.

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Feb 21, 2019
freydo:

You must've completely missed the part where I said "I appreciate the advice", "I've tried reaching out to alumni", "I've read the behavioral and network guide", etc.

There was also the advice of "just learn the basic skill of coding" in this thread. Ah yes, the oh so simple skill of coding. I should just go learn the basic skill of Java programming

And yes there is a fine line between being delusional and being positive.

You must have missed the part where you were coming off as an ungrateful dick to @thebrofessor.

Honestly, everything he wrote was spot on. Sending applications into the online black hole is a complete and total waste of time for you. Pick up the phone and get it done or just accept that unemployment and living in your parents basement will be your reality from now on.

    • 10
Feb 22, 2019

If you aren't even willing to go onto a FREE website and commit 25, 50, 100 hours to TRYING to learn how to code (let's face it you're not doing anything else that's value add with your time right now, so 100 hours isn't even that much), then you're beyond help. The fact that you just write it off shows you're not cut out for anything that requires hard for, consistency, and dedication.

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Oct 15, 2019

Dude stop feeling sorry for yourself. A big part of your issue is your mindset. No, changing your mindset may not get you a job, but it will get you through the rough times that you're going through now. You're in a position where you can legit do anything with your life. Time is scarce, and you're using it to drink and play video games at night. I understand that it's not easy to get out of a rut, I was in your shoes 18 months ago at this time, but being in a rut and staying in a rut isn't going to help you. Go for a run, get a part time job stocking shelves, do something to stay active and get the mind right.

Also, the Brofessor legit wrote you essays and all you did was give a "Thanks but no thanks." Besides- If I told you that begging on your hands and knees for a job would get you hired, would you do it? Whatever you're doing isn't working rn, take some chances and stick your neck out there a little more.

Like i said tho, get your mind right first. You're gonna be fine, but tell yourself that first.

Feb 20, 2019

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

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Feb 21, 2019

Sent some SB your way for the time it must have taken to write those posts! Great advice, which hopefully will sink in one day...

Feb 21, 2019

You're an ungrateful brat. The bro has just given you invaluable advice and this is how you respond.

Change you attitude, your current state of mind will lead you to no success.

Mar 1, 2019

You should've gone to McDonalds or Hardee's!! That's where you belong!!

Feb 25, 2019

Hey! I'll accept your help if you have 3 minutes to spare reading this.

I was in a situation like OP and took up a random job to make some $$$ while I searched for my next job. I am looking right now for this entry level finance position in commercial banking. I am targeting the lowest hanging fruit which includes support positions, credit unions, and remote regional banks. I am not having any luck. I am trying to smile more and relay my motivation but somehow they don't like me, they don't believe that I am willing to move, or they don't think I am willing to be a good sport in a support position. I always invite them to voice any concerns they have after the interview to put them at ease but nobody bites. I even apply on-line and provide salary expectations on the low range just to get started.

I tried networking and met some good folks and learned some things. I never asked for a job or got a job through it. My network is small and at this point I wouldn't like to open up about my situation beyond what I am typing here. I am in too deep.

Due to my track record I don't know if reaching out for informational interviews is still a good strategy. I am pushing through and using online resources to review topics in finance. I am not really studying like I would for something like the CFA, but I review topics until I understand them completely and move on. Unfortunately outside of a technical interview I don't believe this really helps. Retention is non-existent, but it helps with getting up to speed when I do land the job or get that technical interview.

I looked into places like AXA advisors but that would leave me spending more money than I actually make. I am pretty sure I am blacklisted from a certain well known agency for finance and accounting jobs. They don't even call me anymore with their nonsense booth work.

Any tips?

PS. Anyone reading this. Don't pm me any info you wouldn't post on the comments - account is not secure

Feb 25, 2019

delete

I posted more constructive feedback later

Ty

Oct 14, 2019

Bruh u paid $200 for a headshot...don't worry about getting a job go to kindergarten first

Feb 21, 2019
thebrofessor:

I still do this today, if I had a bad week (lost a client to death or something, lost in final rounds to another firm, etc.), you better believe i'm not out there partying after work. the first thing I do is reflect and ask myself how I can get better.

@thebrofessor If you lost a client to death, how can you "get better" from that?

Don't @ me

Feb 21, 2019

What I meant was if a client dies and the kids take the money elsewhere, we could've done better at securing their trust

Feb 21, 2019

You advice is always so fuckin good man.

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Feb 26, 2019

I'm somewhat in this guy's same situation..

This is damn solid advice to follow, thanks my man!

Feb 26, 2019

This may be some of the most detailed advice I have seen on this website. Great content. Unfortunately it is wasted on this one (rather toxic) individual. Everyone else here in a similar situation - study this post. Life does not come easy, and your attitude ultimately projects into your life.

Also - therapy is a great resource. Meditation does wonders as well. I personally believe everyone can benefit from both.

Feb 20, 2019

might as well post a link to your resume (remove name and enough details to make it anonymous...then share it from your google drive and post the link)

just google it...you're welcome

Feb 20, 2019
freydo:

Have applied to ~500 jobs, have had 10 phone interviews, 1 in-person interview. Have contacted ~80 alumni, barely any responses. Day after day, its the same fucking thing.

If I could read your future and tell you exactly how many times you'd have to try and fail before you finally broke through, what would you do? I expect you'd enthusiastically go out there and keep trying and failing until you finally hit that number.

You're discouraged because you don't know the number. But believe me, it exists. You're a college graduate, and you're not going to be unemployed forever. You feel bad about yourself right now because others are out to a faster start. In five years, you'll have forgotten all about that. Run your own race.

Reconsider what @thebrofessor had to say. He knows more than you and he's giving you good advice about how to fail better. You dismiss him at your own expense.

And if nothing else, stop drinking out of boredom. The rest of these issues are in your head, and won't matter in five years. But a bad drinking habit will follow you.

Feb 20, 2019

Actually, I was in the same situation but when I say middle of no where, I mean population of under 1000 with the nearest town 80 miles away. Barely any cell-phone signal.

Took me a year to find a job. Drinking that beer and playing video games isn't going to help. If you aren't using every dying second to apply and study for those interviews then you're wasting your time.

I set a deadline for myself and made it during the last month. My problem was that I wasn't great at technicals and really focused on improving in that area. If I went passed the deadline I was going to use the 18x contract to give army special forces a shot.

Misery is relative but watch this and tell me if you still feel sorry for yourself:

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

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Feb 21, 2019

I'm from a relatively dead end area (much bigger than 1000, but more of a shithole than isolated) so I kinda sympathize with that background. I also thought about 18x when I was unsure if I could break into finance. Seemed like a cool alternative cus Green Berets are hardcore. The timeline you set for yourself using it seems like a really good idea, too. Glad you were able to break in man.

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Feb 21, 2019

I would consider speaking to someone if you suspect you are depressed. Personally, I have never found anyone that was worth a damn at therapy when times are shit, but you may. What I have found is that, for me personally, there were medications that helped me get through a very rough patch (the difference was night and day). It may be tough to compete for positions if you are suffering from major depression. Everyone has rough patches and do not be ashamed to get help (depression has claimed multiple "tough guys" in my family).

With that being said, you are inherently at a disadvantage as a long distance candidate with no experience. I would recommend moving to one of the "It" cities that is growing at an enormous rate and trying there for jobs. I am not sure if you have any friends or family you could bunk with temporarily until you get established, but having a local addresss is helpful for getting through one of the HR screening mechanisms. I know at my current employer we hire inexperienced people left and right (just a F500).

Feb 21, 2019

If your problem is just related to work then start prepping for the GMAT and head to grad school.

Feb 21, 2019

I agree with the above post, OP might be depressed. If that's the case, it's incredibly easy to feel that everything is pointless. With that mindset from the get go, it will impair your execution and good intentions. And people or firms you meet with won't know that you have a negative attitude because of circumstances... they'll just simply see the negative mindset and assume the worst (he won't be a good fit / team player / won't be hungry or proactive and etc). Might be good to chat with therapist / psychiatrist.

There's really nothing I can add here since @thebrofessor and the others covered it in detail. But I would echo / add a few things:

  • Try a different approach - as @thebrofessor said, your current way isn't working, so what have you got to lose by trying something different? People here all shared their stories of failures and how they were able to turn it around (and this could take 6-9+ months). You're at the start of it. To develop relationships, build a knowledge base, develop leads on potential opportunities takes time. Doing all the things people outlined above is like planting seeds - it takes time to materialize.
  • Cast a wider net and keep an open mind - have you looked at other roles outside of finance ones that still offer an "analytical" component (strategy/ops, bus dev, maybe certain product teams) and outside of finance industry. Some startups for example might offer opportunities to do a bit of everything... and it's a good way to figure out what you like and dislike.
  • Set smaller / short term goals, take breaks - don't try to do everything at once - cold emails / networking, industry research, building up technical skill sets, prepping for interviews is a lot of work. I would say set realistic short term goals. If can be really overwhelming to say... get a reply from an alum to meet tomorrow out of the blue, then frantically trying to cram industry research and technical study in a day. Consider setting aside some time to focus on only one or two things. Maybe it's technical study (valuation, financial modeling) and industry research on careers you want to pursue. Do that (at a measured pace, and fit video games or exercise or meeting with friends in with some downtime). And then getting to a good baseline level of comfort you can reach out to firms and networks again. That way, you have more confidence, context, and comfort to have a more fullsome discussion with people (and a better likelihood to develop a positive first impression). By having baseline fundamentals down, it also allows you to better internalize the advice and knowledge that professionals you speak with share, and it creates a better feedback loop into your knowledge base.
  • Get out of the House / meet friends / exercise - this will help you improve your mindset. Having people to talk to, providing yourself with occasional breaks. dont stew alone. It's really easy to get down on yourself and lose perspective if you try to do too much too fast and by yourself.
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Feb 21, 2019

Man, some of OPs responses have been so cringe worthy that I'm hesitant to even get involved. But here's my $0.02 - take it or leave it.

  1. Sack up, get out of the basement, and interact with the world. Go down the street in your small town and get a job. ANY JOB. Learn what a hard day's work looks like. Get your sense of pride back. Stop playing victim and start making moves. Literally any move is better than what you're doing.

I know how depressing it can be and how hard the initial move is to make. I spent 6+ months living in a windowless closet washing dishes a the restaurant below my apartment. The situation was so depressing that washing the dishes became the highlight of my day. 6+ months. At least there WAS a highlight to my day. Go find your highlight (a productive one ie Job) and embrace the process.

  1. Develop your social skills. From what you've been saying and the way you've reacted to people's advice (specifically on following up) I can tell you have very little understanding of how people work socially. Step 1 will be a big help with this. Hell, you can even have your beers, but do it at a bar and force yourself to meet someone new with each round.

When you've started making moves and learn how people work you'll be setting yourself up for success. People work with people. So know how people work.

If all else fails you could always teach yourself how to code ;)

"Out the garage is how you end up in charge
It's how you end up in penthouses, end up in cars, it's how you
Start off a curb servin', end up a boss"

Feb 21, 2019

Lol what, getting a job here isn't even an option. I live in a town so small there isn't even a traffic light in this shithole. And I want absolutely nothing to do with these rednecks. Learn what a hard day's work looks like? This isn't my first job. My responses are the way they are because its an internet forum ffs and I'm being treated as if I'm retarded

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Feb 21, 2019

we tell coal miners who get laid off to learn to code. you went to college...why are you above "learning to code" ?

just google it...you're welcome

Feb 22, 2019

The first step is to stop drinking completely since you are an alcoholic.

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  • Developer in Acct - Audit
Feb 25, 2019

I thought you snapped and made an alt to rage.

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Feb 25, 2019

Lol take my banana good sir

Feb 22, 2019

You gave very little context here.

What kind of school did you attend? Is it even ranked?

Do you have any internship experience? Hard for firms to consider offering you full time roles if you barely track record. At this point you might have to consider doing unpaid just to get experience. You have to make yourself seem somewhat appealing to the recruiter. Step into their shoes and think I chose freydo because of xyz and abc

And of course you aren't retarded but don't play as if it is you against the world.

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Feb 22, 2019

Shit state college, shit GPA, data analyst internship.

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Feb 22, 2019

Don't worry about your shit GPA or shit school. You're not going to be breaking into IB right now - the first goal is to get you a job, any job.

People always say this because it's true, "It's easier to get a new job when you already have one."

Go for the low-hanging fruits. Entry level, basic jobs. $45-50k/yr. Any city. Can't be picky. Your first job is only your first job. Doesn't even have to be in your major/field of study. Probably won't be to be frank.

It's primary function won't be for making $, but to give you some momentum.

"Out the garage is how you end up in charge
It's how you end up in penthouses, end up in cars, it's how you
Start off a curb servin', end up a boss"

Feb 22, 2019

why did you have a shit GPA at a shit state school?

state school is where it should be easy as fuck to get a 4.0

are you just not very smart? whats the deal?

just google it...you're welcome

Feb 25, 2019

TWO THINGS YOU ARE GOING TO DO

Get adobe acrobat reader, the free trial for seven days, and "edit" out that shitty gpa on your transcript and replace it with a good one. DON"T FUCKING ANYONE GIVE ME SHIT FOR THIS....you're in an ass position, time to make some ball busting moves.

Do the same with your resume.

Hopefully You will have more luck from now on. Only apply to entry level positions that will see your "edited" experience as a plus but not as a requirement or stepping stone. By that I mean if you add some research or tech experience in your resume, don't apply to tech positions ( I know you won't) that will considering hiring you based off those fake qualifications, instead go after consulting positions that don't care that you had good tech experience but will consider you as a better candidate because of it. By doing this you can fake your story better.

I still think you're an ungrateful moron, but this should be a good start. You seem like the person who would cut corners, so fucking go ahead and do it, Don't listen to that dishwasher guy, you don't need to scum so low.

Best of Luck

Ty

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Feb 25, 2019

Master of accounting

Tradeschool

Coding boot camp

Military

Those are your legitimate options. Don't go into too much debt, if at all, for the first two.

The posters here are well-intentioned but the reality is that a bad gpa from a bad state school makes you about as employable as a high school graduate. Actually less maybe, since a high school grad could learn a trade. There isn't some magic bullet to get you out of your situation. You can "network", get a new suit, follow up with alum, but there is simply no compelling reason for someone to hire you when they can hire someone with experience or hire someone who interned for them.

I am not trying to make you feel bad in any way, but this is just the reality. You are not getting job bites because you don't offer anything to potential employers. You, likely through minimal fault of your own, completely missed the boat on post college professional opportunities. You need a complete reset to have a chance at a modest life.

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Feb 26, 2019

have you considered working for the govt?

just google it...you're welcome

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Feb 26, 2019

Code Academy isn't the only option for learning how to code. There's also Udacity, Udemy, and edEx, and they're free. There's also Free Code Camp, too. And yeah, I get it that learning to code is hard and that not everyone can do it. Or at least, not do it well enough to get a coding job.

Feb 26, 2019

As a disabled 52 year old woman from generational poverty that struggled for six years to re-enter the workforce after decades of being out, trying to get a chance for a job (only to not ever get one) against the obstacle of age discrimination (on top of sex discrimination and straight-up classism on the part of the gatekeepers), who was a non-traditional aged AND first generation college student who went to a backwater state college, I understand what barriers to employment are all too well. If all else fails, here's what you do: Get a small amount of money (minimum of about $500), either from selling your video games or putting some stuff up on eBay. Then, take that money and open a trading account with Ameritrade and request level 3 options trading privileges. Download the Think or Swim trading platform. Learn your way around the platform. Then, start paper-trading. Don't put real money on the table until you've gotten a firm grasp on how to read and interpret the charts of a few stocks and ETFs that are highly liquid that many people trade. Learn the patterns. And learn the assets (the stocks or ETFs you picked to track - i.e. the SPY is a good one). Look for a pullback setup, and buy 1 Call option on it, with an expiration date 3-4 weeks out. Watch it over a 3-4 day period, but probably shorter. You're looking for a 20-50% profit. Take your profit, close the trade. Then patiently wait for another good setup. Rinse and repeat. There's TONS of really good free trading tutorials out there, so this is not that hard from an academic standpoint. You won't make a million with a $500 or even a $2000 account. But you CAN get up into the tens of thousands within a year or two, if you play it right. And from there, you can compound it upwards - as in, the sky's the limit. When nobody else will give you a chance, make your own opportunity.

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Feb 26, 2019

Not sure if serious or trolling.
1) Paper trading is completely pointless and removes one of the main aspects of trading, psychology.
2) Retail trading is a negative-sum game. Something like 90% of retail traders lose 90% of their capital within 90 days.
3) Trading chart patterns is a joke.
4) That is not a profitable strategy and I suggest you quit while you're ahead if that's what you're doing.

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Feb 26, 2019

I'm dead serious. I'm not trolling. I've been trading for awhile - much, much longer than 90 days. I didn't lose 90% of my capital, either. I plan my trades, and I trade my plan. I obey my own trading rules regarding position size and what kind of risk I'm willing and able to accept and I stick to that rule. And just because you think technical trading is a joke, that doesn't make it so. I merely offered up a suggestion as someone who has been unable to get employment, who faced significantly more barriers to middle class employment than you ever will, throughout my entire life, and I'm probably old enough to be your mother. Maybe even your grandmother. So I know what it means to have a difficult life because of not getting a chance for a good job despite having done "all the right things" and having no choice but to try to create my own opportunity. I thought I'd be helpful by sharing with you what I'm doing (because it is working for me) since you seemed to be in real distress about not getting chances for jobs. You scoffed at what I had to suggest. Fine. Suit yourself. Trading probably isn't for you.

I noticed that several other posters on here tried to interact with you and you basically insulted them and were quite rude to everybody - which is NOT going to make a middle class job in your field fall out of the sky like manna from heaven and land in your lap.

Well, I'm going to go look for an end-of-day setup for a swing trade, if there are any (if not, I'll wait for one - I'm patient).

Have a nice day.

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Mar 8, 2019

That's because 90% retails traders are retards and buy what is shilled on bloomberg or some random radio station

Feb 26, 2019

With all due respect, what did you think was going to happen by going to a shit state school and not even getting a good GPA? Like you've clearly not put in the work and effort thats required for the jobs that you are applying to. My advice would be to get a sales job, and apply to a master program in a couple of years (accounting or finance).

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Feb 26, 2019

actually...i think this kid would be better off not starting out in sales...but starting out in a very boring govt administration type job. Every state has entry level govt jobs, which you can find at your local dept of labor office. While these may not be sexy...they get you working, which will force you to learn all the things that are required to be a productive part of the work force. After just 1 year, anybody will have learned enough about themselves to figure out what they would really like to be doing that matches up with their abilities / interests...and you get paid to do it.

this is much better than playing video games in the basement...and i think this kind of structure is necessary for a kid like this, who clearly lacks self-motivation.

for example, i see lots of jobs in ny state dept of labor that pay 50k+ with minimal experience required. project managers, research analysts, etc...

just google it...you're welcome

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Feb 26, 2019
MPAstud:

With all due respect, what did you think was going to happen by going to a shit state school and not even getting a good GPA? Like you've clearly not put in the work and effort thats required for the jobs that you are applying to. My advice would be to get a sales job, and apply to a master program in a couple of years (accounting or finance).

You think a guy who is afraid to pick up the phone and ask for orders (who has zero follow-up) should go into sales? I'm confused....

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Feb 26, 2019

here is another idea...apply to be a guide/counselor for outward bound (or a similar organization). Get you out of your routine to energize and shake things up. Will also help you find direction and inspiration (while getting paid), and you'll be in a position to help younger kids who need to learn leadership skills (you'll learn some yourself also).

just google it...you're welcome

Feb 26, 2019

Hey man!

Thanks for posting this as I'm going through something similar, even though you might be second guessing posting it :). Keep in mind my advice isn't about changing one thing to get an interview, but what I've learned that makes this process less dreadful - I hope you might see it as relevant and helpful. Some will be irrelevant, but read through it, it might help. I've also taken the liberty of skipping over most of this thread because the advice isn't worth filtering out the drama, and I don't give af. The brofessor's initial advice, which I think is spot on, is tailored to be universal and may not be directly applicable to your situation, like seeking a shrink or suggesting you're going into interviews with socks and sandals. It's not like you're going to blow your brains out because of being in job purgatory. Don't take that stuff personally; you know it's not the case.

A lot of negativity from the frustration with your situation is seeping into and reflected in your posts, which is why this thread has morphed into an MTV reality show/youtube comment section. I do appreciate some of it, though, as the drama precedes a blatant barrage of more advice that can help me :). Anyways, their comments are in direct response to the negativity stemming from the natural perception of your situation, creating a cycle that is making your situation worse. They leave unchanged, but you're definitely going to feel bittererer applying to jobs later. Understand that so you can leave here unscathed. I'm sure I'd feel a little butthurt if some of these things were said to me.

My personal situation: I'm switching from corporate finance into ER/IB. Went to a target school - I still think this terminology is egoically elitist, but I'm partial having come from one - and got into a solid finance rotation program. I was on a fast track within the corporate world and knew most of the execs, but felt that it was an endless stream of learning menial tasks and repetition. Even the underlying concepts felt ritualistic and relied on a relatively straightforward cause and effect notion. It was less the drastic strategic changes in case studies and more-so keeping the business alive by feeding it reports and journal entries. Everybody left at 5 and I found myself degenerating into a corporate drone. I lost my drive and had no idea what to change. I also kept getting conflicting advice about the necessity of MBA's/CPA's/CFA's, so I didn't pursue and feel like I was getting smarter. So, after discovering corp. fin wasn't for me and finding this godsend of a website, my life now has meaning lol.

I'm familiar with the void that a resume seems to enter. It was much easier in school; they came to us. But now my resume is not competitive with anyone who has IB experience/referrals. My target school & stellar corporate finance track record are bogus without that IB exp. And without meeting me, there's no way for these clowns to realize that, instead, the other applicants are who don't stand a chance.

Anyways, the division/company I worked for shut down and I decided to redirect towards the unknown. I started out with what I hope was a worse mindset, otherwise you might actually might want to see a shrink. I binged t.v shows and a bunch of video games, when I didn't even enjoy them, because I avoided considering leaving a strong career path to start over. I was Castaway lost, but once I made that decision I had a goal and more clarity. Besides, I don't want to have to answer what I did these past months jobless with "learned some Fortnite dances or some bullshit." When I found a specific "why" for what I do, I rekindled the drive I lost and could turn that Tony Robbins thunder to action. I removed all the garbage habits (t.v, video games, etc.), not doing them at all, and now wake up at 4 after 6 hrs of sleep, work out twice a day, started learning French and Japanese, practice guitar and drums, bought whatever books were recommended on here - Warren Buffet likes tomes, not picture books btw - among quite a bit more. More importantly, my situation doesn't affect me, and therefore not how an interview will go should I get one. While I don't get the sense you're at the bottom yet, your current trajectory is headed there solely based on the language of your post. You'll have to change your outlook; your situation can get worse.

Personally, I'd disregard the self-help Tony Robbins stuff. While well-intentioned, it's only helpful to those who can point that motivation in the right direction. It's analogous to taking pre-workout for a race and having no idea which way to the finish line (hopefully that makes sense lol). I watched a lot of those videos and was inspired for 30 min before regressing. However, I appreciated it because today was leg day.

Furthermore, they posted that because they see through the negativity in your post and believe that to be the issue, as if that is conveyed to a recruiter or indicates a lack of effort on your part. I see that you're merely reacting to all of the bad stuff going on and that there must be a better way. But by reframing everything going on, doing what it takes to get into finance gets way easier. The stuff that's been recommended is actually necessary and I'm realizing it, too. I'm averse to cold calling, even though I know it's not going to be anywhere near that bad. Maybe I have some genetic trait that makes me avoid being told to go away by HR. Maybe frame it as someone paying you a lot of moola (signing bonus) to cold call a ton of people. That's how I'll be thinking of it calling these bozos.
Here's a link in case you haven't found it:

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/the-best-netw...
For the coding bit, the advice is solid, but misses the mark that I'm sure you're aware of: knowing how to code and putting it on your resume isn't the missing piece of the puzzle to landing an interview. However, being that I have been unemployed for an absurd amount of time, and wasted what I would presume more time in negative habits, can say they lead to a downward spiral. Being unemployed is painful to my ego and therefore is an all-day job. You'll feel bad for wasting time and then do it some more to feel better because job hunting is pointless etc. From my own experience, once I cut that garbage out, became proactive, and starting doing a lot of healthy habits (not just learning how to code), your mindset changes and you gain momentum. One habit won't make an impact, but a lot might change your mindset from "about to send another pointless app that I know will get rejected" to "I'm sending them more because I'll be successful and I'll call these mofo alumni up so they can reference me when I ask for 'advice,'" or something equally gung-ho. Never give up

@thebrofessor: Thanks a ton for the advice as it's a huge help. From what I've read you're more of the resident psychiatrist than the resident sucker :). Obviously, don't take offense to whatever bloodshed occurred in this thread, this stuff blows and what appears as disregarding your help stems from the frustration with the situation/low success rate.

@Jacqueline Homan: I don't know what you're talking about, but you had me at "you can get up into the tens of thousands within a year or two."

Don't blast me into the past monkey trolls if you disagree haha and silver banana my prose, English majors, so I can evolve.

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Feb 27, 2019
CivilWarVet:

@Jacqueline Homan: I don't know what you're talking about, but you had me at "you can get up into the tens of thousands within a year or two."

Well, yes. I should have been more specific, however. It depends on position size, amount of starting capital (with $5K to start, this actually is not unheard of), the patience to wait for a really good trade setup, as well as the discipline to take your profits before the trade moves against you instead of holding out due to greed, and cutting losses that you can recover from within a reasonable amount of time instead of riding them to the bottom and blowing up your trading account.

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Feb 27, 2019

freydo, I'll offer you some things you wont hear from the rest of these guys. First, I feel your pain, I was in a smaller town in fly over country with a degree from a non target liberal arts school (waste of time and money), had a subpar gpa, and even was charge with a felony (went joy riding with the school presidents golf cart -- charges were later dropped and sealed from record 6 months after graduation but plenty of damage done and had uphill battle) so just so you know it could be worse. You could've made your hole even more deep. Many primary/secondary educators (especially females -- sorry ladies) are rife with the socialist mindset. Someone else will always help me achieve what is necessary to achieve. Why? Because you now believe its up to the guys on this site to help you...I was similar after leaving college. Hoping for the best but thinking it would be someone else who will help you get there or get you there. THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN. Sorry for the honesty. I think these guys have some good things to say especially brofessor so I do not want to discount their advice, only want to give you incite into personal reality change; helping spread the idea. The sad truth is, that one guy from that fucking movie you like to day dream about calling you will never happen by pure happenstance, unfortunately, and you won't just go into an office you've never been rejected from and know how to run into the right guy at the right time. You have to channel/figure out your dog. You have to be more of a dog. Clearly, you can wash your face, shave, type, and find wall street oasis but so can 100 million others. People all want this shit bad man. You disrespect yourself and the profession you get into if you think it'll just happen one day because someone liked your name. Then you won't even respect the job, yourself, and your life. Listen, I do not know it all, I know very little. What I do know is you have to turn into more of a grinder. Unplug the video games, those are by far the worst addiction. I have less of an issue with beer assuming you aren't sucking them down like water but limit yourself, it can easily make you weak, soft, lazy. Download audible and listen to atlas shrugged, fooled by randomness, skin in the game, 12 rules for life, mastery, etc. Listen to podcasts "we study billionaires", dan carlins hardcore history, etc. Get some tools to help gain attributes people in the jobs you wish to have would desire. The information will also make you and your conversations more interesting and in depth. Get to the gym more. You got defensive about the gym/30 push ups earlier. Harden yourself. I am sure you are in perfectly FINE shape but most others are too and what are you? Someone with a low gpa, from a state school you are not proud of.. why risk being perceive as being more mediocre if you are not? Get up at 6 am, seriously, and work out. Make a coffee, do what you have to do, just like if you had to go to that job you really want, get a real breakfast, TREAT YOURSELF DON'T CHEAT YOURSELF, then grind, consume information, whether it be audiobooks, paper backs, coursera, news aggregator sites, this site, whatever it is that is sellable/useful information aka not video games and similar bull. Get another workout in at noon or 2 pm when you feel tired. Get out during the day and find anything you can do for a little money even if its painting or cutting grass, get yourself a little money. Money to take a trip to a city, buy some better dress shoes, save up for a security deposit for an apartment in a city, get a video camera and make a vlog series about trying to get a job as a kid from the middle of nowhere in a big city. I don't know but do something. Be great man and do not do it for a job do it for you. Then once you start being that dog you always want to be you stop day dreaming about getting there because you will be so caught up in improving yourself and your competence.

I know this is not what you want to hear. You probably won't get that job in a month or even 3 months. If you want be great though you'll get that routine down, that, "I'm going to be a beast no one wants to fuck with." Then you'll get that look in your eye like you are serious and you'd do some zero dark thirty shit to get where you needed to go. Then you'll be less depressed and not focused on how everyone around you your age has it and you don't...why? Because you will be out being a dog. Waking up early to grinding hard, learning more, and being a better product. It will not come easy though my man. You have to get addicted to grinding first. But it will be worth every second of it.

For me, the job did not come either. For years.....years, years. So much so I will not even say on this chat out of fear of mockery. In fact, I still do not have the job I wish. It is not the job that will make the man, it's the man who makes the job/business/anything.

Clearly, you know there are rich kids with connections and interview gods who are incapable of performing the requirements of the job. You are not one of those people. So you can continue to hope your interview mentor or whatever sends you that magic connection. Or you can go out and become a threat. It may take years but people who you wish to have respect from will have respect for you when you finally do go rogue as a nose to the grindstone dog.

That is what matters. Spend your days learning. The more you learn the better your clarity will be. Clarity never comes first, unfortunately. Wasting time on fortnite hoping for a call to move to a city paid for by them won't happen. Does a man get married and she offers to pay for the engagement ring? C'mon kid. Save, move, do whatever, show you are committed to greatness. As they say, "real recognize real". Great MF'er's will notice a man who is determined to succeed, they want great people on their team and will want you riding with them. After all, they too have it on the line. Always remember the order of operations though. Grind first. It will suck sometimes..oftentimes but if you want to be great then you have to do it yourself...then people notice.

You have not been descriptive on what you enjoy or want to do so as for specific information on those topics, I will not offer much. Commit to yourself instead of wallowing in self-pity. You have a story, its different, it can be great, but you have to become great before anyone will want to hear it. See you on the other side.

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Feb 27, 2019

I appreciate the advice/insight.

I'm a big fan of Nassim Nicholas Taleb, as well. Will look into those other audiobooks/podcasts.

There's no gym here unfortunately, and I was being satirical about the 30 push-ups lol

Feb 27, 2019

The recruiting process was brutal for me too. I submitted so many applications and never heard back over my entire final year of college. I came from a non-target and didn't have any impressive internships, but talking to a recruiter really turned the process around for me. After just a few days reaching out to various third-party recruiters, I had a number of interviews for jobs that I was interested in. Recruiters might not be the best choice for everyone, I've heard at times you might end up with a lower salary when placed by a recruiter but they really can get more looks at your resume and help you get in touch with the people looking to hire. I can't say enough good things about having a full-time advocate during the job search.

Feb 27, 2019
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Mar 1, 2019
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just google it...you're welcome