Wells Fargo Fires Bankers for Expense Policy Violations
WF crushing it, just saw this on WSJ. Expensing meals early is apparently a fireable offense at Wells. https://www.wsj.com/articles/wells-fargo-fires-ba…
WF crushing it, just saw this on WSJ. Expensing meals early is apparently a fireable offense at Wells. https://www.wsj.com/articles/wells-fargo-fires-ba…
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Unfortunately, WF taught its bankers everything it knew, then its bankers expensed meals early in its sleep. Ironic. WF encourages bankers to fake accounts and expenses for customers... but not for themselves.
Wish I could give multiple SBs for this reference. Well done
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Your memes are very impressive. You must be very proud.
Excellent. +SB
Site note - they could have done better than Hayden Christensen.
"We're coming in too hot."
Better acting yeah, but he certainly epitomizes what the character of Anakin Skywalker "looks like"
Given the impending Anakin cameo in Ep. 9, and the $$$ coming from merch, video games, etc; in the long-run the decision was a fine one
If you work for a good tech company, they will give you food in the office for free.
This isn’t WF only issue - most of the BBs have done something similar over the last couple of years and put stronger systems in place and/or got people in trouble. Unfortunately “well people have been doing it for years” or “everyone does it” defense didn’t fly. Same with cab / Uber receipt.
What's idiotic to me is that this seems to be just about ordering meals early, not people forging expenses. Like if you order a meal at 6:00 instead of 6:30, which seems ridiculous to me.
Perhaps they were doctoring the times and not staying as late as they claimed? I know a few banks in our city that have fired people for expense abuse (ordering something and sharing it with a gf, ubering to/from non-office/non-work locations)
Banks do this when they are struggling and want to lay people off without the negative appearance of a layoff. There's nothing unethical about most of the Seamless "violations" that the knuckleheads in compliance warn you about. Most of it involves getting the meal earlier even tough the banker is working late anyways.
That is pretty harsh. I wonder if they fired someone who got hungry at 6:20 rather than 6:30 and then proceeded to work until 3 or 4 in the morning...
On the other hand, there is always that person who orders dinner at the office on Friday at 5:30, meets the delivery guy downstairs, and heads home with it. Less sympathy there.
Why don't they give a heads-up and just take the money out of the analyst's salary or something? Feel that's more reasonable than firing someone and going through the hiring process
Because it’s fraud
Which Wells clearly has such a problem with...
It's kinda sad that the first thing that popped up in my mind was... when are full time apps opening up again?
I know this seems like a harsh reaction for a small offense. But technically they defrauded the company. They submitted and signed documents with information they falsified, specifically for the purpose of going around the stated reimbursement policy and getting paid.
I think many places would slap someone on the wrist for this, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was done with a wink and a nod from upper management. It also wouldn't completely surprise me if certain high performers who got mixed up in this received more lenient treatment. But this is Wells Fargo. Unless you've been under a rock lately you know they've got a culture problem with issues just like this, and they're desperate to fix it. I feel for those who lost their jobs over something so small. But at the same time, come on. No one should have known better that it was a stupid time to play fast and loose with the rules.
I'm shocked to see people defending this. Did you not read the article? Doctoring receipts seems like clear cut fraud. Can't imagine working for an MD who's judgement is so poor that they commit fraud to get $20 worth of Chinese food. Seriously, who does that?
I highly doubt they got rid of MDs for just that. It was likely worse they just are able to bucket them in there too.
You'd be surprised. It happens more than you might think. People who have a lot of money tend to have a way-above-average appreciation for how quickly money compounds, and it sometimes tempts them to do stupid things.
What does fraud even mean? Seriously. I hear that word thrown around a lot lately, usually by people who are trying to make a big deal about something that isn't really a big deal. Whether it's a US president paying off a porn star or an analyst getting an early meal, it seems like some people care way too much about stuff and start yelling "fraud".
Sorry - not formatting well but there are six factors here:
fraudulent misrepresentation when six factors have been met:
Clear cut fraud? Ordering dinner an hour early when you're working late regardless and changing the time on the receipt because they have an arbitrary time cut-off should not be grounds for being fired right before bonus.
Exactly. It's a shame some of our fellow monkeys here don't have any common sense, based on the hysterics around the technical definition of fraud.
They reported "a dozen" layoffs, but it was closer to ~30.
Their peers turned them in. Looks like some internal backstabbing/gamesmanship more than the results of an errant investigation.
WF never wanted to be at the top of the league table and they're actively reducing syndications and DCM. Sounds like they were looking to reduce staff and these folks volunteered.
Nope, they hired an outside accountant to audit
An outside accountant audits when people are leaving the office?
Bingo.
Rumor has it was mostly analysts and associates who were the culprits. Since the layoffs several senior bankers, including all (or nearly all) VPs and up in one vertical quit and went to another bank in response.
Do you happen to know which group/vertical that is?
Industrials. Not sure which vertical.
It was across many groups
Aerospace & Defense
Sorry but I doubt that. A group of officers uprooted themselves, forfeited unvested stock options, etc. to protest analysts getting fired for expense account irregularities?
I know it for a fact. Buddy works in the group.
It's very plausible. Not out of protest. But for two other reasons:
I worked for Wells Fargo in their multifamily real estate capital group and I traveled extensively. I always got the cheapest flight, the cheapest car, the cheapest hotel, and the cheapest meals. My colleagues would abuse the fuck out of the expense program, staying at expensive hotels in hot locations, renting nice cars, and going to expensive restaurants. For whatever reason, I just always felt an ethical duty to my employer to not abuse the system.
The banks policies are clearly outlined. Our travel is booked according to these. Staying at a 4-star hotel for a week during MPs isn't the crime you make it out to be. If people are staying at the Four Seasons, Ritz, etc., which is obviously unnecessary, the MD in charge of the client relationship has to answer to the expenses, so it doesn't affect you.
Occasionally, I found myself feeling the same way you do. But, when I was working until 4am back-to-back nights creating some bullshit ad hoc analysis because the CFO couldn't figure out how to use the ERP system effectively and efficiently, I quickly got over that and made sure to order $50 of room service for morning breakfast.
I didn't say it was a crime or a violation of policy. I'm saying I never felt comfortable pushing the limits of the expense reimbursement policy. Loyal employees SHOULD feel a responsibility to their employer's bottom line.
Oh yeah for sure. $75 per day while traveling was our policy. You can guarantee if I hated the client even if I flew out at like 10pm I'd get like a $50 meal easy at the airport or something.
I doubt a bank making 90 billion a year in revenue is hurting too much with you maxing out your expense budget.
There is often wisdom in the crowd, but this is one of the rare times when I can honestly say that I'm disappointed in the opinion of the WSO crowd. Like that one time when I criticized crony capitalism in investment banking--that also got overwhelmingly monkey shitted.
Surprised how much MS you got for that. My feelings are in line with yours, but I’m at a smaller place and can demonstrate my thriftiness benefits the bottom line.
I think a lot of the responses are just visceral reactions to their own companies’ expense constraints.
I'm guessing this also may have been a way to stealthily lay people off without labeling it as such and avoid paying severance. Definitely not a coincidence that the investigation happened right before bonuses.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner.
.
I wonder if any summer interns were affected, offers pulled for this scandal.
Seems to me the bank might have been looking for an excuse to cull their IB division and these people delivered themselves on a silver platter. Stick to the published rules and per-diem and you have no issues.
That whole place seems to be a mess; they're back on the news again this morning... maybe they just need to dismantle and rebuild themselves from the ground up.
This isn’t fraud if the people changing the receipts thought their meal expenses were being rejected because of an error in an automated system. Like if their policy states $25 for dinner if working after 7pm, and analysts order at 6:45pm with the anticipation that they will be working for at least 15 more minutes, then I don’t see an issue - they met the criteria for the reimbursement and are being blocked improperly by the automated system. Imagine if they were paying cash and ordering by phone - there would be no issue with calling at 6:45 for delivery after 7pm.
I think it’s much more likely that people were just straight up lying about their expenses.
This isn't fraud
i think it’s curious that an internal whistleblower raised the issue to management. banks have strictly regulated procedures surrounding whistleblowers which include making sure management takes action on any issues raised.
management might've felt like their hands were tied after someone flagged this to them. i wouldn’t be shocked at all if the snitch....whoops i mean whistleblower had some other motive besides weirdly strict compliance with late night seamless policy. based on the little i’ve read, it sounds like a lot of people were canned for breaking early dinner order rules that people violate every night in every bank and law firm across the country. If so, this really sucks and I feel some sympathy for the people let go.
Can confirm from friends that people were getting canned for leaving before 8. Kinda ridiculous considering some of those people apparently had worked till 2/3 am the night before and on many other occasions.
Yet another reason not to work at WF
I know a couple of analysts there so I have some insight here and it was not just ordering early, it was falsifying the receipts to change the timestamp (and sometimes the dollar amount), and people also were buying alcohol with their expense dollars (which is against the policy), and using doctored receipts to hide the booze. Obviously, we've all found little expense tips and tricks so it's easy to see the punishment as pretty harsh, but don't really blame management here. Doctoring the receipts isn't an innocent error or little thing, it's a pretty serious incidence of premeditated fraud. For a bank trying to change the culture, stay out of the news, and also cut costs, I get it. Feel bad for the kids, but I get it.
Doubt it was changing the dollar amount
From my knowledge, this is a pretty common practice on the Street. Times have changed though, everything is scrutinized under a microscope.
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