11/9/06

Hi, just wondering what is the percentage of people quitting during the IB analyst program. Anyone care to share some insights?

Comments (57)

11/9/06

I've been told its like 50-70% after the 1st year.

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

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11/9/06

who told you that? number seems waaaay to high

11/9/06

.

11/9/06

it's very high

very few analysts are still in the business (including PE and HF) a few years down the road

11/9/06

i dunno...a majority of analysts complete their two year stint and then leave the industry.

its rarer to see an analyst leave after their first year than finish a second year

11/9/06

Aspiringmonkey, what if I told you 90% of analysts drop out after their first year? And banks don't hire anyone else and the other 10% splits all of the bonus pool. Would you believe that and then post it online to confuse others? I enjoy your disclaimer but you should read it once or twice to yourself before posting "advice" on this site again.

11/9/06

Any reason why they leave after 2 years? Won't they stay to be promoted to associates?

11/9/06

I was told that by an associate, a VP and a bunch of analysts at different BBs. Granted only a few mentioned the 50%, but all of them said that a LOT of people quit after the first year, right after they get their bonus.

I wouldn't believe yours, because a) no way to tell if you are legit and b) 90% is not a credible #.

The disclaimer is there, so that I don't have to think about it. I can say whatever cockamaney crap I want.

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/9/06
aspiringmonkey:

I was told that by an associate, a VP and a bunch of analysts at different BBs. Granted only a few mentioned the 50%, but all of them said that a LOT of people quit after the first year, right after they get their bonus.

I wouldn't believe yours, because a) no way to tell if you are legit and b) 90% is not a credible #.

The disclaimer is there, so that I don't have to think about it. I can say whatever cockamaney crap I want.

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

Why are you spending so much time on this forum "answering" other people's questions when you should be concentrating on getting a job?

This forum is good for the occasional good piece of advice, but with the amount of time you are spending on here, posting replies like you are being paid for it, one has to wonder why you aren't applying all this precious advice to your own job search.

Speaking of "an associate, a VP and a bunch of analysts at different BBs", I know a lot of kids at non-target schools, and believe me.. if you really do know that many people in the industry, and are genuinely a likable person, it is not that hard to get interviews.

11/9/06

Some decide to stay for a third year and move on to the associate position. Others move to the industry or more frequently to private equity.

11/9/06

Some analysts may switch banks after the first year, since they have just worked 100+ hours per week for a year and might feel snubbed by their place in the bonus range, BUT, almost no analysts leave outright after the first year. For one thing, PE shops and other jobs that are traditional exit jobs for analysts start interviewing about a year early, so there's no way to leave after one year and get a reputable exit job.

11/9/06

will see...I plan to stay on at the moment..

11/9/06

yeah, plus the fact that banks need some sort of continuity with their analyst class...hard to run a group if 70% of your "would-be" second years leave.

11/11/06

I only know of a handful of Lehman analysts (Class of 05) that left after our first year. Many have positions lined up for after the second year at HF's and PE funds, but the vast majority will finish the two-year program.

11/10/06

Riiiight...because it takes me 20 minutes to come up with 1 response. I dunno how fast you type, but it takes like 30 seconds to type up a response.

I don't know them personally, they touched on the subject at their presenations.

and honestly...I dunno about you, but job search isn't a 24/7 job. I applied at banks(60), I exhausted my networking options, nothing else left to do.

So right now, I'm working on the website...this way I'm refreshing all the information, and started filling out non <abbr title="investment banking

">IB applications.

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/10/06
aspiringmonkey:

and honestly...I dunno about you, but job search isn't a 24/7 job. I applied at banks(60), I exhausted my networking options, nothing else left to do.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Investment Banking Interview Course

11/10/06

well what would you do?

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/10/06

I've never heard of anyone exhausting their networking options. There are people I know that have landed interviews by cold-calling MDs or waiting in popular bars at night hoping to catch an associate in his off time.

Not that you should employ these particular strategies, and I really have no idea what would work for you, but if you are really serious about getting into i-banking, you would spend a lot less time on this site, and a lot more banging down any doors to open up opportunities for yourself.

You live in Jersey for god sakes. That's a hell of an advantage compared to most non-target applicants.

11/10/06

Banging down doors doesn't exactly work when you need security clearance to enter a building.

As far as your other options...thats not networking...thats cold calling.

And yes I'm serious about getting into IB...but I know its not the end of the world...there is always the MBA-->Associate option...and this time around I'll be armed with all the right information, and will know exactly what moves I'll need to make.

The way I see it, if I don't get in at the analyst level, I'll get to skip 3 years of bullshit work being a bitch to 30 different masters. Why 3 years you ask? Because I know myself, I'm willing to sacrifice a lot more than most.

So I'm staying positive heh

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/10/06

what makes you think you can crack ibanking at the associate position?

it is a heck of a lot harder to get an associate position than an analyst position.

but im sure you knew all this already.

11/10/06

"Why 3 years you ask? Because I know myself, I'm willing to sacrifice a lot more than most."

Dude. Seriously. Kill yourself. If you sacrificed more than most you would have done so to secure a job or interview by now. Or maybe thats why you have not done so.

11/10/06
Ivybred800:

"Why 3 years you ask? Because I know myself, I'm willing to sacrifice a lot more than most."

Dude. Seriously. Kill yourself. If you sacrificed more than most you would have done so to secure a job or interview by now. Or maybe thats why you have not done so.

I said willing, I only decided I wanted to do IB 2 months ago. And coming from a non-target you really need to make that decision at least 2 years in advance.

11/10/06

well it breaks down into 3 things

1-School
a) I'll come from a better school(I'll make sure to get into a target, even if it means taking an extra year to reapply with better credentials)
b) Will get a better GPA(1st year really killed me in undergrad)
c) Get good ECs/Leadership experience
d) Access to on campus recruitment

2-Experience
a) Will get a summer internship
b) Better resume(more relevant experience)
c) Will know when to apply
d) Interview better, since I'll have more things to touch on
e) Won't be a fresh college grad, thats all starry eyed.

3-Life
a) Better Network(have relationships that lasted 2 years, not 2 weeks prior to applying)
b) More mature/older
c) More goal oriented.

Bottom line: I know myself, right now I set my goal for IB, with me thats pretty much a guarantee that it'll happen, because I'm very goal oriented. Within 5 years I'll be in IB.

You ask why I think I'll get an associate job if I can't get an analyst job? Because I only decided on doing IB as a career a little over 2 months ago, which is why my results aren't that stellar, don't have the profile IBs want.

With associate it'll be different, I'll have 5 years to mold myself, to fit the profile IBs are looking for. Target school, good GPA, excellent ECs, Internship, Work experience etc.

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Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/10/06

P.S. kill myself?

I don't believe in suicide, its for weak minded people.

Whah whah the world hates me . Grow a thicker skin.

Or at least spice it up, make it a murder suicide, that gun of yours holds more than 1 bullet, might as well make national news by killing a few people for company, instead of quietly croaking in your bedroom.

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/10/06

"With associate it'll be different, I'll have 5 years to mold myself, to fit the profile IBs are looking for. Target school, good GPA, excellent ECs, Internship, Work experience etc."

You along with every other MBA student will have those credentials.

Plus, how do you plan on cracking into a top MBA program? People with GS resumes have a hard enough time getting into the Harvard and Whartons...it'll be that much harder for you.

Being goal oriented and "really wanting to do ibanking" doesn't suffice.

11/10/06

yes thats right, same credentials as other MBA students, which is still BETTER than where I am at now, where my credentials are a level below. Shitty school, shitty GPA(yes its good but not good enough), no experience. While now its an uphill battle, at that stage it will be even...an MBA is the great equalizer.

yes you are right getting into a top MBA with IB experience is hard...why? Because there is a score of other applicants who did the IB analyst stint who want to go to a top MBA.

How I plan to crack the top MBA? Good GPA, good experience, ECs, and my life experiences. And I know what you'll say "You and everyone else"...which is true in a way, but my life experiences are truly unique, and thats what will set me apart from all other applicants.

And I disagree, being goal oriented is exactly whats needed, if you know what you want, you'll do everything in your power to achieve it.

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Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/10/06

aspiringmonkey, initially I was really hoping that you would succeed. We have a similar background (you come from an ex-communist Eastern European country I think) and you seemed really dedicated. Your posts in this thread, though, have revealed an attitude typical of Ayn Rand supporters. That "I sacrifice more than anyone, I am self-made" crap is pointless with an awful attitude. Bankers hate assholes. In fact, many banks have a no asshole policy - if there is a bad sheep that treats everyone without respect, regardless of their position, they will be fired. That's not to say that there aren't assholes in banking. there are and MD's have made analysts cry. However, most people are co-operative etc. You seem a complete asshole, who will rub your self-made success story into everyone's face one day. Banks probably notice that. That's why your networking has probably failed you. You just come out as the asshole you are.

11/10/06
Salam Shpekov:

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Actually I'm not the type to rub things in anyone's face...I don't advertise my success nor failures, I keep that kind of thing to myself.

Its actually a surprising quality considering my hobby, where people gloat for WEEKS over running a better time than you.

I'm actually very insulted that you called me an asshole. I never looked down on anyone, I've never turned down anyone who needed help, and I always taken other's people's feelings into account. I always treat everyone with respect.

But I see where you are coming from message boards seem to bring out the worst in me.

As far as the whole networking thing, once again its the whole respect thing, rules say not to ask alumni to give your resume to HR, so I don't do it.

11/10/06

you're a fag.

11/10/06

I'm not flaming, but if you really want it that bad, there are more productive things to do with your time than to post second-hand advice on this forum. "Networking" is your only way in at this point and it should be a continuous process, not something that you can "exhaust". Don't rely on MBA --> Associate, you need to have experience to get in there, even if you're at Wharton. Good luck. You can accomplish your goals, just don't be delusional about them.

11/10/06

aspiringmonkey, you use this site for approval you do not find in your real life. It isnt working because you come across the same on here as you most in real life.

And your MBA argument. Dude everyone is better in a few years. Life is a competition and the level is always rising. The farther you fall behind the harder it is to get back on track. You are off track, the longer you take to get back on, the less of a chance you have.

Accept that you are not doing things right, figure it out and change. This site is not the answer.

11/10/06

if I used this site for approval, I would pull a dan bush. Tell me, how exactly does someone get approval from being put down and insulted left and right?

Yes thats true about that whole track argument, but I can't exactly pull a rabbit out of my ass to make it all better. It'll take some time.

I know its not an answer, do you really think I'm here in hopes that someone tells me "Hey kid I like you, lets interview you"...no way, its a good site to get some inside information, nothing more.

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/11/06

I didnt say you were here for an interview. But you are obviously looking for something and knowledge is not gained by you by talking like an idiot constantly. What else would you be looking for but acceptance?

11/11/06

Aspiringmonkey,

Preface: I'm somewhat new to these boards and don't know the various personalities, so excuse any toe-stepping.

You might find that if you do put yourself out there and do some cold calling you might have a great deal of success. Having just finished the recruiting process (and getting 2 BB offers), I can tell you what they were looking for.

  1. Most candidates don't know exactly what I-Banking is, and this comes across in an interview. If you even know what it is and can then you have a leg up.
  2. It's all about showing you are willing to do the work. I was told by like 3 VPs who interviewed me that most people from my school could do the work from an intellectual standpoint. They just needed people who would be willing to put in the time and the hours.
  3. Fit along with work ethic are the most important elements. There is no real way to do well here really. Just talk to people in the bank and if the fit is good they will take you. If the fit isn't good then you probably will hate working with them for two years anyways.

You don't really need to be from any kind of super school or have any kind of super GPA. I got a slew of interviews with a 3.33 GPA, and a couple of my friends did too. After you get the interview, it's all about how you perform.

Aspiringmonkey, if you just take some risks and make more calls, you can get a couple interviews. From there you probably have a better chance than most.

11/11/06

I still don't understand why you are sticking with acceptance...but I'll drop the subject.

Banker, reasons like that is why I think I'll do well in the interview

When you cold call, what do you talk about? What kind of process did you use?

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Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/11/06
aspiringmonkey:

I still don't understand why you are sticking with acceptance...but I'll drop the subject.

acceptance prolly the wrong word....you have something invested in this little community, which is why u keep arguing

you DO care what people think about u on here...if u deny this, you're insane: there IS a part of u that doesn't want everyone to see u lose an argument, it's an inherent drive for validation that everyone feels when they get caught up in an argument/fight

people sometimes get sucked into messageboards and end up "discussing" shit and/or getting into arguments all fuckin' day! u're addicted. stop fuckin posting here and get a fuckin life

11/11/06

My school was a target school I think (although I don't know the exact definition of a target school) since banks came to recruit on campus. I did a bit of cold calling as well just to get some info and maybe arrange an interview with those who didn't recruit directly.

It's really easy to strike up a conversation, Aspiringmonkey. You just introduce yourself, say you're interested in banking, and ask them if they have a few minutes to speak with you. You're interested in pursuing a career, and you have a few questions about their profession (ups, downs, how deals are closed, etc.). You ask about the company's structure, how the groups are set up, staffing, do they do their own execution (I find the execution question gets a very favorable response), etc. Then, at the end, you suggest that you are interested in working for the company, and if they could point you in the direction of someone who does recruiting.

I suggest starting with companies you're least interested in and work up to companies you are most interested in (so you can perfect your pitch/method). I hope this helps.

11/11/06

Were the people who you called alumni from your school?
I suppose you go to a top 30 school?
Did you have a prior IB internship?
I am sorry for the questions, I am just curious.

11/11/06

who do you call? how do you get the contact info? How do you get past the receptionist?

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/11/06

You need some sort of lead. I would call associates or VPs and get their input. Analysts have little power and MDs are too hands off, so I found this a good middle ground. I would get friends working in IB to get me names and cards and I would call them directly. I'm sure you're resourceful enough to get through to talking with someone. Don't be lazy =P. The receptionist is easy, you tell her who you want to talk to and then she transfers you. If she doesn't, keep calling back. Eventually you will get through. Also, you know the receptionist won't be there past say 7 pm. Try calling then.

11/11/06

like I said I dropped the subject, so you aren't going to get a reply :P

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/11/06

Aspiringmonkey, I knew you would be an OTer...RSX enthusiast?

11/11/06

rule #1...who is this?

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/11/06

Rule #1...never create a web page that is linked off of your homepage with all your pictures, etc.
Drive a 2003 Acura RSX that is sliver?
[email protected]

11/11/06

you mean andrew.dreamhost? I'm not hiding it:P

and no my rsx was blue.

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/11/06

actually, i should hehe

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

11/11/06

Bankerbot2007:

What do you mean by do they do their own "execution"?

11/11/06

execution means actually doing the deal, not just pitching.

if a group isn't fully executional, it does the pitching and then sends the deal work (which is the good stuff) to another office.

11/12/06

Many groups are not fully executional if they are not in NYC. If you are a "branch" for the main office for a certain coverage or product group, you might not end up doing much execution. It is something you will want to know, and it makes it sound like you have done your homework.

11/12/06

Given the current market, there is some attrition, but I do not know how likely they are to fill spots given that there are some hiring freezes.

11/12/06

So keep networking and keep fingers crossed....?

11/12/06

It is very possible as I did it in the past and I am doing again right now

My advice would be to target middle market/boutique firms without a formal fall recruiting process and more importantly, NEVER GIVE UP

11/12/06

it happens. One guy dropped out in the first 2 months when we started. You best bet is dec and july times though

11/12/06
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11/12/06
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