When do you call it quits?
I know you guys get a lot of these posts, but I was wondering what is your breaking point? When is enough, enough? When do you call it quits?
I've been working every weekend, and every weekday, I work nearly 16-18 hours a day. It's worse now that we work from home, because the moment I wake up, I work until the time I sleep. I always tell myself that the weekends are almost here, just bear with it. But every other weekend, I end up working, and then its back to the weekday grind, and I tell myself the next weekend will be here soon, but I get staffed on a Friday night yet again and my weekends are gone yet again. Sometimes, I don't even get to eat any food the whole day because it's that bad. I feel like the hours are unsustainable and I cannot be expected to keep this momentum forever. I may get a relatively free Friday, but that doesn't mean I actually get to rest because I have to stay online and do other value added work throughout the day to show that I've done something. Then by 5pm on that Friday itself, work starts coming in and I'm told to submit the work by Monday, which means I'll have to work throughout the weekends.
My seniors are more worried about looking like work has been done than actual work itself. It doesn't matter how early we get the deck done, the work never ends until the hour (literally) before a presentation happens. And this happens for every single presentation, every single time. It never gets easier.
I've been seeing a lot of personal finance videos, and there are many people who can find success financially without needing to go to a top university or working these insane hours. I know a lot of people fail as well, but I feel like it's gotten to a point where my reward doesn't equal my effort. For context, I get paid slightly less than USD 65k/year in a third tier MM and my seniors expect me to pull all nighters and work every weekend every week.
For example, I read about this 'successful' businessman, who said that in the beginning of his career, he worked so hard that he only had time to eat 1 meal a day and worked 9am-10pm 6 days a week. And I think to myself, this is a very easy week for myself?
I think worse than the hours is the lack of autonomy. If you have something planned, you have to follow the seniors schedule. If you submit something by a Saturday afternoon, and the seniors take their time reviewing your work and only send it to you at 3pm on a Sunday, they expect you to immediately be at your desk at 3.05pm amending the changes, even if the presentation is not due until 2 weeks later. If you are having lunch but they want something printed, they expect you to forgo your lunch and print what they want immediately.
Just wanted to hear your thoughts. Like everyone, I am worried that I won't be able to find another job once I quit. But at the same time, I feel like the work I am doing now is very unsustainable and I cannot see myself doing this kind of work for the next 2-3 years.
Are you a first year analyst? Typically things improve once the next graduate class come in so you should see an improvement once you're a senior analyst.
Secondly, there is also a big improvement once you hit associate level so if you can grind it out until then you'll see a big improvement along with a big pay jump
Thirdly, you should raise say this to your staffer / seniors. I went through the same thing was working till 2am most nights, constant weekends, cancelling holiday plans with friends last minute etc.. I ended up losing my gf after two years of seeing eachother and after that I realised I needed to make a change so eventually I raised this to one of the heads of the team, I phrased it saying how I feel I'm constantly being over staffed and given unrealistic deadlines, always being given the really junior shit tasks and unable to focus on the core projects and mentioned the hours I've been doing and the head said he would sort it out.. since then it's improved massively, I now rarely work past 10pm, i rarely work weekends and have a much better work life balance. This hasn't affected my bonus either i just now have seniors giving more respectable deadlines and less of the shit junior tasks go to me.. Honestly just find one of the seniors or staffer that is not a d***head and speak to them. Avoid the ones that would reply with 'if you can't handle it, quit' attitutude. You have to make your voice heard otherwise people will walk over you and burn you out in this industry.
Also that pay sounds pretty bad and the culture sounds equally bad, I would start looking for lateral roles at higher tier banks. Although I assume you have already tried doing this? Are you based in Europe as London tends to pay significantly lower than the US and $65k sounds about right for an IBD analyst in London at the current exchange rate.
These are all my personal thoughts, everyone's opinion is different.
"For context, I get paid slightly less than USD 65k/year in a third tier MM and my seniors expect me to pull all nighters and work every weekend every week."
Yeah... this is the biggest red flag for me. If anyone is being paid that little for that much work, it's clear that their seniors don't respect them. I would have jumped ship a long time ago.
Agreed, although it is a tough market to recruit in. I think he is based in London (or Europe) as London pay is significantly lower than the US, the standard analyst base in london is £50k which is arround $60k to $65k at the current exchange rate.
Agreed
I work in Hong Kong. I'm okay with the pay for a slightly more balanced lifestyle. But I often times get told that this is expected in "IB".
I have 3 years of experience but the other 1.5 years were spent in DCM. Work will not get better even if I get promoted to an associate because this small team only has 4 people and the next level is a VP. If they have to do anything, they'll scream at me and tell me it's not their job as a MD or VP to do my work. They have never promoted anyone from analyst neither, they pretty much expect you to leave. No training whatsoever given, just expect you to find a way to do the work yourself. I've even been told to ask the client's analyst to teach me instead when I raised up something that I didn't understand.
Trying to lateral but times are tough and no one is hiring in this industry after HK's protest and now coronavirus. It is affecting my health - I've actually lost 3kg from staying at home despite having no time to exercise and walking less simply by not having enough time to eat.
I don't foresee the job market improving anytime soon. Should I just forgo this M&A dream and do my own stuff? What's the point of being in "IB" if you're not paid IB?
It's not as simple as just jumping ship. Being unemployed in the current job market and that early on in your career is not only extremely daunting but also extremely difficult to explain to recruiters and prospective employers. I would imagine OP is trying to recruit for roles but has no time to focus on that, let alone interview, network, etc. If his mental and physical health is seriously at stake, then yes I agree.
As the earlier poster said, have you communicated this to your staffer / someone more senior in the firm? I think if done correctly then that is the most appropriate course of action. Are there other analysts on your team and are they facing the same type of hours / being overloaded, or is it specific to you?
Hey, thanks. No staffer though because there's only me as an analyst in the group and the next level is a VP. If it's not me doing the work, it'll be the VP and he has had to help me a few times previously but complaint to the MD that he has to do my job.
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