Where are the real pre-MBA superstars?

I've been doing some research and seeing the massive student loans that MBA students graduate with. Looking over another WSO article: wallstreetoasis.***/forums/savings-before-mba

It appears people aren't going into the program as hotshot all-stars (not saying they don't have impressive resumes though). Which leads me to the question, why are so many of these people getting let in to a school based off of high GMAT or GPA, resume and some essays?

I'm recently 25 (with a graduate degree already from a top 10 - which arguably slowed my NW down) and worth 500k+ with no debt (self made and come from a humble beginning) and didn't even do banking (I imagine others have managed even more than me - from all sorts of field). If I do go the MBA route in the future it will be much higher net worth from today obviously as well at the time of matriculation. Does the world have so few people that attend their MBA that are actually true all star elites? I would argue if you had to assume debt to attend an elite MBA (more so for the finance folks than say a HR MBA i.e.) you're not the best and your post undergraduate experience wasn't properly utilized - didn't Trump always say that money is the scorecard after all? The MBA in my mind is supposed to give society the best and brightest minds and if they're accepting cohorts of individuals who can only save 25-100k in 3-5 years out of college how great were they really (compared to the general population that's amazing but I'm looking at the all stars)? To me that sounds like people who just got a job and saved portions here or there mostly due to high earnings... did no one actively go out and invest for big returns themselves, run their own companies, fund raise capital, get a patent and license it and start something great that succeeded? When I think of the M7 I would like to think every person would have accomplished something like that - not just worked for tier 1 company and performed well enough to get promoted and a few letters of recommendations. However, reading over savings and such really makes me question if an MBA offers value to all-stars or if we should just keep building our things without an MBA.

Maybe if everyone didn't have to spend hundreds of hours wasting their time studying for a lame GMAT that offers 0 value in life besides admittance into a graduate program and doing stupid stuff they don't have passoin for to put it on their resume and spent that time learning business structure from companies they started, reading tax code to understand tax optimization strategies etc. they could have more saved but I'm really not sure.

Which begs the question, where are the true all stars who have true feats under their belts at early ages? Let's face it, the majority of you folks on WSO went into the industry to make a LOT of money, so "show me the money".

Perhaps the MBA's attract many of the same type of people causing the group think that Renaissance Technology notes. Maybe they are right.

"I've always said Renaissance's secret is that it didn't hire MBAs," says Berlekamp, who blames the herdlike mentality among business school graduates for poor investor returns." --- linkedin.***/pulse/20141117150538-17004994-pure-alpha-story-of-renaissance-technologies

I'm really curious everyone's thought on the topic? I also acknowledge the MBA for the majority is a solid investment based on the statistics job reports/placements/raises post-MBA show, so that's not the argument. I'm just curious the type of people going. Maybe the real all-stars that attend are the ones getting to 8-9 figures (4% over 100mil , 19% over 20 mil, after 25 years from Harvard class of 1986) vs everyone else just getting 7 figures, or maybe the 9 figure folks just have trusts and inheritances. Hard to say! That's also Harvard, not the other 6 in the M7.
beatthegmat.***/mba/2012/06/20/25-years-later-a-revealing-class-portrait-of-the-lives-of-harvard-mbas

I know there are definitely all-stars out there crushing it, I'm just curious where you are! What type of high performers are the top MBA's getting? I imagine some normal distribution for what I've described above but it's just surprising to me.

So what do the best WSO folks have to say about this? What insights can I gather here?

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Comments (23)

Aug 24, 2018 - 8:14pm

Absolutely. I chose the schools that paid me to attend them while working and investing that money. Every decision I've ever made has been with the time value of money in mind and out to maximize my net worth. If I do x what are the results to y (my net worth - long term and short term). As we know money in your early 20s is worth 20x at retirement assuming normalish returns (could be lower or higher), the money you earn at a young age is WAYYYY more valuable than money you'll make when you are older. Thus the importance to prioritize making it all costs when you are young.

If you choose to attend an expensive (relative to what you personally have to pay) university that's your own fault. If you chose to not work, save and invest during school... again your own fault. The loans cost you money + interest, rather than you building your net worth and allowing your worth to get the interest (compounding). You made personal choices, that's fine, nothing wrong with it and I imagine doing relatively well economically if you're participating on this forum, that's great but I'm inquiring about the exceptions not the majority.

How do you get full rides you may ask? You be a great student in elementary school, which prepares you for the honor classes in middle school, which then prepares you for the honor/AP/college classes in HS, you become a top elite student. Schools woo you so you can boost their stats and pay you to attend. You again, do great in school and employers woo you with great paying jobs, you save and invest all along the way, then grad school woos you to again boost their stats and hopefully get big donations one day from your success's. Which then gets you a big paying job without debt and lots of money in the bank. All the while you started companies along the way and grew even more and leveraged that to grow your net worth even more so.

So by stating that because I didn't have student loans that means whatever correlation you think in your brain, you need to look at it from a different point of view; what could you have done differently to be where I am? Most people go to expensive schools and maximize their student loans (or rather don't try to optimize them to mitigate them), they have herd like mentalities and justify it that education is a good investment. I looked at the equation as what would actually grow my net worth, allow me to generate cash flow into perpetuity and become like a Warren Buffet. I'm an unconventional thinker, thus why I have unconventional results.

Warren Buffet started working when he was young and under stood TVM early and look at him. I imagine he had 0 student loans upon graduation. That doesn't make him any less of a super-star, does it?

So now the question is where are all of the super-stars? Maybe they are all the business owners, maybe they don't attend business school, maybe x,y,z happens. I'm not sure, but I'd like to find out. My thirst for knowledge is unquenchable.

Funniest
Aug 24, 2018 - 9:27pm
hustler4life7svn:

Absolutely. I chose the schools that paid me to attend them while working and investing that money. Every decision I've ever made has been with the time value of money in mind and out to maximize my net worth. If I do x what are the results to y (my net worth - long term and short term). As we know money in your early 20s is worth 20x at retirement assuming normalish returns (could be lower or higher), the money you earn at a young age is WAYYYY more valuable than money you'll make when you are older. Thus the importance to prioritize making it all costs when you are young.

If you choose to attend an expensive (relative to what you personally have to pay) university that's your own fault. If you chose to not work, save and invest during school... again your own fault. The loans cost you money + interest, rather than you building your net worth and allowing your worth to get the interest (compounding). You made personal choices, that's fine, nothing wrong with it and I imagine doing relatively well economically if you're participating on this forum, that's great but I'm inquiring about the exceptions not the majority.

How do you get full rides you may ask? You be a great student in elementary school, which prepares you for the honor classes in middle school, which then prepares you for the honor/AP/college classes in HS, you become a top elite student. Schools woo you so you can boost their stats and pay you to attend. You again, do great in school and employers woo you with great paying jobs, you save and invest all along the way, then grad school woos you to again boost their stats and hopefully get big donations one day from your success's. Which then gets you a big paying job without debt and lots of money in the bank. All the while you started companies along the way and grew even more and leveraged that to grow your net worth even more so.

So by stating that because I didn't have student loans that means whatever correlation you think in your brain, you need to look at it from a different point of view; what could you have done differently to be where I am? Most people go to expensive schools and maximize their student loans (or rather don't try to optimize them to mitigate them), they have herd like mentalities and justify it that education is a good investment. I looked at the equation as what would actually grow my net worth, allow me to generate cash flow into perpetuity and become like a Warren Buffet. I'm an unconventional thinker, thus why I have unconventional results.

Warren Buffet started working when he was young and under stood TVM early and look at him. I imagine he had 0 student loans upon graduation. That doesn't make him any less of a super-star, does it?

So now the question is where are all of the super-stars? Maybe they are all the business owners, maybe they don't attend business school, maybe x,y,z happens. I'm not sure, but I'd like to find out. My thirst for knowledge is unquenchable.

Kids, this is what adderall abuse looks like.

Aug 31, 2018 - 9:34pm

Warren Buffet's life was set up for him since the moment he was born. Sure he was not born a billionaire, but being the son of a congressman helps you get into good schools helps you build connections. I doubt if Warren did not have the connections that he got from his father he would not be in the position he is in today. Not to say every congressmen's son/daughter will become a billionaire, but you are making some huge assumptions about Warren.

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Aug 26, 2018 - 7:08am

A lot of "all stars" don't waste time on an MBA. My main partner is worth $3M or so at 26. No point in him doing an MBA ...

By the way, you shouldn't judge people like that. I don't at all when hiring and care more about the obstacles they had to overcome when I hire. Someone who struggled through college while taking care of a sick parent is 100x more impressive to me than someone with $x in their bank account...

  • 1
Aug 27, 2018 - 9:14am

Sounds like your main partner is another true all star! That's what I like to see. I'm a few months off from joining the 7 figure club myself.

As far as hiring, of course you don't consider that. I don't. In fact I make shit tons of money off of people who are in terrible financial positions so I can just pay them a lot more than their current job for them to work for me and then get someone that has a great resume and worker. If I offer the highest rate then I don't have to worry about them leaving too much usually as long as you keep them happy. But for me to allow you to invest with me on major deals you have to have my mindset and philosophies. I don't want business partners who will jeopardize my ability to grow my net worth over their emotional mindsets.

I'd take the person who has potential to make risk adjusted money with a high degree of competencies. Be that a self made huslter, someone who cared for their parent or what. At the end of the day if I hire you, it's so you can make me more money than you cost me - it's simple economics. If you aren't great with your finances I don't have to worry about you jumping ship to start your own company but rather you'll be dedicated for what I comp you and a good COG in the corporate machine. I have 1 employee I pay 100% over market rate (pure base) i.e. Extremely dedicated worker for just having to be an employee and not manage any hassles with running a company. All the while I make solid money off them. Win-win scenario. But you run your company and I get to run mine and hey, we'll both be multi-millionaires in our late 20s with different philosophies. That's the great thing about business - you can get filthy rich with tons of different models working for yourself.

Most Helpful
Aug 27, 2018 - 10:09am

Man oh man. This is cringe worthy.

I'm in my mid-20s, have no student loan debt (full scholarship), really enjoy my work (not IB), get to live in NYC, have my family/friends all within close proximity and frankly I make enough that allows me to live (for the most part) a life I enjoy living. No that doesn't mean a 50ft yacht but I can go on multiple vacations a year and not think twice about it...everybody always craves more money - but I don't measure my financial success as my worth as a person.....I also do nonprofit work, etc- which is fulfilling but doesn't earn me a dime

Point being - it's kind of sad you're measuring your own "worth" and other people's based on what their net worth is. I know many people who are you '9 figure ALL STARS!!!" that aren't happy....but they sure as shit are a lot wealthier than you.

Aug 31, 2018 - 5:55pm

Give me time and I'll be joining their ranks.

The thing I've found, the wealthier I get the happier I've become. You can convince yourself others are unhappy if it makes you feel better. But I assure you most people at the top aren't unhappy at all.

Sep 4, 2018 - 11:12am

Considering these are friends and family i'm referring to this means that I have had conversations with them about this very subject. You are just stating your personal opinion.

Let me be the one to assure you, with the upmost confidence, you have no fucking idea what the people are the top are thinking/feeling. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

You can prove me wrong by taking a random sample survey of 100 different, ultra high net worth individuals. Provide them with an unbiased questionnaire regarding their wealth and happiness, You may just prove me wrong.

Aug 31, 2018 - 6:32pm

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