Where would you rather work: D.E. Shaw or Point72 for Junior Summer?

taulamep's picture
Rank: Baboon | banana points 125

Between the Point 72 Academy Internship Program and D. E. Shaw's fundamental analysis teams where would you rather spend your junior year summer with the intent of working at a HF after graduation.

Comments (14)

Jan 26, 2018

Both are awesome internship opportunities. Ultimately, I think your answer should come down to whether you want to do event-driven investing at a place like Point72, or do more long-term plays.

Other facts to consider would be compensation (I think both are on par with each other), cut-rate (you might be cut from the analyst class after joining FT at Point72), size (I think D.E. Shaw is smaller), management platform (single vs. multi, I know that P72 has a multi-management platform, idk about Shaw), and transferability to other funds (both are great).

Prestige may be important to you in and of itself, but it may play a role in how easy it is to move to other funds, should the need arise. D.E. Shaw Fundamentals L/S would probably edge out Point72 in moving to other elite fundamentals L/S hedge funds (like some of the tiger cubs). Point72 takes on a more quantamental approach. This might give you a very rare skillset in both basic quant and fundamentals analysis, but also risk making you perceived as a master of none (although I know that P72 analysts are all solid on fundamentals analysis).

I think now is a cool time to join Point72 is they are just opening to outside capital. If given the choice, however, I'd probably go with D.E. Shaw.

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Jan 26, 2018

My training the street class was 70% DE Shaw kids, fun to hang around, i'd go with them haha

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

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Mar 28, 2018

Interesting. I was in the process for both last summer and got the offer/signed at one of the two programs you mentioned, so hopefully my insights are somewhat accurate. I think the two opportunities are roughly equal, though it's worth considering that L/S is P72's bread and butter while D.E. Shaw was founded as a quant shop -- though I've heard the latter's fundamental team has done very well and shouldn't be underestimated.

It depends on your strategy, platform preference, and experience preference. The D.E. Shaw internship actually places you on a desk (I believe), whereas P72 Academy is mostly about classroom learning (though there is a short rotation at the end). Make of it what you will, I think both approaches have their own merits. Also note that the multi-manager platform runs a much longer list of names with tighter risk controls and higher leverage.

D.E. Shaw's L/S seems to take a longer-term view on positions compared to P72, which trades very frequently during earnings. P72 also definitely has more of a data science bent, which is pretty forward-looking if you're the type of person who believes that traditional fundamental L/S will need to be alternative data-informed in the future. D.E. Shaw has a more traditional view, though I know there is also some emphasis on knowing functional programming (R, Python). I'd recommend knowing R for both positions, though it's likely more important at P72.

The D.E. Shaw comp figure is pretty crazy for the summer (P72's is also very generous), but I wouldn't let that be a major factor in someone's decision. Absolutely loved the vibe I got from both firms during the interview process, so I don't think culture is an issue. The rest, like I said earlier, is all up to your personal preference.

Jul 26, 2018

From what I hear, D E Shaw is taking large intern classes for their fundamental teams and the offer rate is declining.

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Mar 28, 2018

I'm not sure why there's MS being tossed here, since it's true. Have friends in the program who can corroborate this. About 20% or so this year (may be subject to change by the end of the summer) -- seems they over-hired and are taking very few to FT.

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Jan 4, 2019

their intern class also includes MBAs and rly most undergrad interns do not have an edge over them - as a result the firm has a way stronger incentive to give MBA interns FT offer, especially in recent years when the fundamental team is fully developed and headcount's limited

He He

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Jul 26, 2018

I would not want to be associated with Cohen if I could help it

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Jul 26, 2018

DE Shaw is kinda short term as well and needless to say so is P72. They are both multi-manager (sector teams) so they have similar risk metrics and mandate (always invested, market neutral, relative value, quarter based thesis). One thing to note is I believe P72's academy is quantamental, while (ironically) DE Shaw is full-on fundamental (no quant skills needed or used at all).

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Jul 26, 2018

DE Shaw takes longer term views than you're implying, does not trade nearly as frequently as Point72, and is certainly not always invested.

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Jul 26, 2018

You could definitely be right. I am only commenting on the info I got from friends working in their sector L/S group. They are indeed a very diversified multi-strat shop, and from what I have heard strategies rarely interact with each other, if ever, so they could definitely have teams with longer-term view that I am not aware of. It really depends on the team that OP is accepted into. From my limited information, I know many teams have 4-6 months view and quarter EPS driven thesis, which is what I was referring to.

Most Helpful
Jul 27, 2018

So you can either work for a shop started by one of the great men of his generation, a shop that's been a pioneer for several investment strategies (e.g. stat arb), and hires some of the smartest people in finance. Or you can work for a criminal who complains about the lack of talent in finance. Hmm... tough choice.
Anecdotal aside: The DE Shaw recruiter I know is much more impressive than the P72 research analyst I know.

Jan 4, 2019

Depending on how you define "talent". I think he was talking about how the "smartest" people tend to go to engineering/healthcare/tech now and discretionary l/s gets the leftovers.

Aug 1, 2018

Shaw.

Without knowing anything about the summer programs full time its a no brainer. DE Shaw pays better, is more prestigious, is a better place to work, and has much lower turnover. Since the goal of summer is to turn into FT, I'd assume that makes DE Shaw the best internship destination as well

Aug 2, 2018
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