Which Banks Recruit Outside of Their Intern Classes? (Or Take Off-Cycle Analysts)

Trying to put together a FT recruiting strategy for primarily non-target students. I come from a great business school, but it is not well recognized yet. As a result, the opportunities for IB internships are virtually non-existent. I know how hard it can be to land an internship, let alone a FT offer. (which I have not successfully done yet).

I am looking to start a thread where people can share their insight on Banks, PE shops, Hedge Funds, and Strategy/Management Consulting firms that recruit outside of their summer analyst/internship programs, recruit off-cycle analysts/interns, or are willing to review applicants from non-target universities. Eventually, I would like to clean the list and organize it so that it may be posted in its entirety for others to use and benefit from. Any information would be appreciated.

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Comments (63)

Jul 26, 2017

Great business school but is not recognized yet? lol

Try to get some shit boutique ib internship and look for non-BB contacts.

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Jul 26, 2017

Great Input pal. Thanks. For the record, I do have a shit boutique internship.

And yea, it gets a lot of attention from every industry except for IB. Finance is the smallest business department and our corporate recruiting department is dog shit. My professors were legit, even if my school's resources weren't. I'm just not lucky enough to be at a school with recruiting.

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Jul 26, 2017

It seems to me that anywhere that doesn't have a 100% offer rate to their interns will take you, if you network hard enough and are a strong candidate. Even if a shop hires only from an intern pool, there are also the somewhat transient openings due to people leaving, etc. These all seem to be rarely publicized to its key to have a network that can notify you and plug you in when these openings exist. I have had reasonably decent traction so far in this context.

This can manifest itself in a few ways I have seen. Either a accelerated process to fill the opening or an ongoing "off-cycle" style approach even if it is during regular recruiting times.

Speaking only from my experience this summer and the past year, so I could be totally off-base.

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Jul 26, 2017

Thanks for the insight. Is there a place where I can look up the offer rates? or potentially how many they lose on average?

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Jul 26, 2017

I have seen that information on this forum before. But a good network would be the best form of intelligence to understand who is looking and how hard I imagine

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Jul 26, 2017

This is not entirely true. A lot of places hire more interns than FT slots they plan to hire on purpose. Honestly, the best bet is to probably gun for MM or boutiques that aren't in NY.

Jul 26, 2017

Good point, forgot to account for that. That said I have had the best luck generally within that category^

Jul 26, 2017

Thanks guys. Unfortunately, the network of bankers from my school is terribly limited.
-a couple guys in risk (International student recruits)
-two wealthy foreigners in trading (not IBD)
-MD at my bank (executive MBA- no help and not how I broke into the bank in the first place)
-my childhood friend who just said fuckit and went equity research.
-me (unfortunately at a small shop with no growth opportunities)

Any advice for networking as a non-target without an alumni base? Can I just reach out to anyone? It feels gauche

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Jul 26, 2017

I mean this in the least asshole way possible because I go to a non-target too but bankers WILL NEVER have sympathy for the woe is me non-target complaining. You have to have more confidence than that and think about what you can do. If I were you I'd send out 20 cold emails and look at the FT megathread. Or (honestly) look within other roles in finance since there are a ton of other cool opportunities outside of the FO. I know a few people in investor relations who actually really enjoy their job. Some of these jobs not in FO can still pay 100k+ after 3 or 4 years experience in a cheap COL on 50 hour weeks. Things will work out if you don't give up.

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Jul 26, 2017

I dont play the woe is me shit in my apps, calls, and emails. I just want an accurate take on how the background will get viewed. It helps to know what I am up against. I guess I am looking for a more optimal approach so I dont screw it up as I apply places. Gotta say, having been lurking recently- I feel clueless compared to yall. I tried to go to career services to get info on IB and was handed a pamphlet on northwestern mutual's "top 20 internship program"

Best Response
Jul 31, 2017

"I tried to go to career services to get info on IB and was handed a pamphlet on northwestern mutual's "top 20 internship program".... Lol

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Jul 31, 2017

Dude, it's really that bad at some places. As far as they were concerned- Aflac was an investment bank because they do something financially related. (To be fair to my career resources department: accounting and BusInfoSys had great resources and recruiting opportunities)

Jul 31, 2017

I go to a super-duper non-target in the Midwest so I'd probably get the same response.

Jul 31, 2017

Keep hustlin. It will pay off eventually. Find some humor in it too. If you make it in, don't turn your back on your school after, and help/mentor the students that come after you.

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Aug 1, 2017

Also, don't let the stories on here discourage you. I did not come correct at first (between sophomore year and senior year) because I thought that banking was some "in-club" that would never take an applicant from outside of their target school. Remember you would be advising on serious deals. Nobody wants to hire a person who believes, themselves, that they are not a fit for the role/responsibility. You gotta prove that your skills, character, and experiences (however you gotta stretch em-just don't lie) are worth more than a school name and that you would be just as successful as anybody else in the role. Think grit/gumption/skills and not hopeful/bashful/unsure. Network like a motherfucker. Start with non-targets who made it in, but don't mention being from a non-target as a way to connect. They already get it usually. If someone doesn't respond- fuck em. It isn't embarrassing. It IS, however, a numbers game for people like us. Call on your personal network. Any kid you know who's mom or dad has sold a business or grown a business likely knows a banker or two at the very least. Become a master of the cold call and cold email. Hope this helps.

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Aug 1, 2017

Appreciate it man. I needed to hear that.

Aug 1, 2017

Anyone else read "Aflac" in the duck voice haha

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Aug 1, 2017

I can't think it, type it, say it, or read it without hearing that damn duck in my head.

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Jul 27, 2017

You realize by virtue of what you're asking (non-traditional opportunities), you're never going to get a consistent or meaningful list? Outside of small boutiques, pretty much every "legit" bank will try to fill up the FT class from the intern class, and if in those one off instances where that didn't happen, they will then go out to recruit again. I could put together a list consisting of every bank because at one point they recruited outside of the intern class or off cycle, but it wouldn't mean anything since it was situational. Your best bet is just to continue networking your ass off, constantly check Indeed.com/Linkedin/company websites, try to stay top of mind with people you've networked with, prep for technicals, and be ready if/when an opportunity to interview off cycle is presented.

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Jul 27, 2017

This is what I was trying to say above

Jul 27, 2017

Honest and straight forward answer. Thanks for that.

Jul 27, 2017

Is it burger king university?

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Jul 27, 2017

Nah dood i went to a regular university. Waiting to hear back from Wendy's about a master's in brrrgrrrrs program though. Wish me luck my man.

Jul 27, 2017

Look outside of NYC, at boutiques, and network harder than you ever have before. Don't make a "guide" or thread here because you will only be making more competition for yourself. Don't be afraid to look at various roles within PWM, AM, Alternatives, etc. Roles at high aum RIA's with low headcount (read: network!). Starting in a sales role might also be good for professional/personal development. Just expand your horizons a bit. If you play your cards right you could be working 35 hour weeks somewhere winterless making 100k+

That's not a bad start to your accumulation phase. Someone asked if you attend "Burger King University"...do you really want to be slaving away next to that guy for 80 hours a week. Just food for thought.

Good Luck

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Jul 27, 2017

Perhaps sanity check was trying to make a burger flipping joke. I'm probably the only one laughing since I actually worked as a burger flipping pizza-man through college in addition to my full-time job lol.

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Jul 28, 2017

Don't go into RIAs. They're a trap. You'll never get out of there and will spend the rest of your life managing other people's savings and retirements (exceptions apply. Note: EXCEPTIONS).

Jul 28, 2017

I could see how being an RIA might be profitable, and I am a good relationship builder. However, it seems a little boring and lacks a sort of competitive edge to it. Seems kinda salesy in a way?

Jul 28, 2017

200% spot on.

Jul 28, 2017

I was simply commenting on his username lol.

But someone who makes a list on why people are annoying on an internet message board is definitely a fun guy IRL.

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/10-reasons-...

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Jul 28, 2017

I just really love cheeseburgers.

He probably thought he had something there. seems like he feels himself too much.

Oct 4, 2017

.

Jul 27, 2017

To who? Won't I look like a straight up idiot if I email people I don't know/have an alumni connection with? Especially when there are hundreds if not thousands of people trying to get these jobs? It isnt like I can hit up everybody under the MD?

Yes or no? Casual or professional? what would you say for these roles below?

Analyst
Associate
vp

Jul 27, 2017
brrgerking:

To who? Won't I look like a straight up idiot if I email people I don't know/have an alumni connection with? Especially when there are hundreds if not thousands of people trying to get these jobs? It isnt like I can hit up everybody under the MD?

Yes or no? Casual or professional? what would you say for these roles below?

Analyst
Associate
vp

Who cares what you look like. You act like they'll say "this non target swine had the audacity to email me without any connection. Blacklist" worst case scenario they instantly delete and move on. Best case you end up ultimately getting an offer. Just put yourself out there

Jul 27, 2017

I'm pretty clueless about the process. My only resource till I found this place was google until I found the forum on this site. I guess I have just read so many horror stories of people putting themselves out there and getting shit on or worse- blasted on email chains and shit for wanting a job. A lot of the guys in finance that I have networked with in-person were douchebags tbh. So that doesn't help much with the fear factor on this. I have a hard time reminding myself that most people on the other end are people, and not the dicks that post on here. Also- the jefferey chiang story freaked me out when I came across it earlier today, but it just occurred to me that the reason he got put on blast like that is because he was a liar, a bum, and forged stuff; not because he was "too" hungry for a job.

Jul 27, 2017
brrgerking:

I'm pretty clueless about the process. My only resource till I found this place was google until I found the forum on this site. I guess I have just read so many horror stories of people putting themselves out there and getting shit on or worse- blasted on email chains and shit for wanting a job. A lot of the guys in finance that I have networked with in-person were douchebags tbh. So that doesn't help much with the fear factor on this. I have a hard time reminding myself that most people on the other end are people, and not the dicks that post on here. Also- the jefferey chiang story freaked me out when I came across it earlier today, but it just occurred to me that the reason he got put on blast like that is because he was a liar, a bum, and forged stuff; not because he was "too" hungry for a job.

From what I've seen you'd have to say some pretty ridiculous shit to get email chain blasted. That's not gonna happen if you just email someone asking for advice or to learn about their experiences in the industry. And if most of the guys were douchebags then why do you want to work with them lol?

Oct 4, 2017

.

Jul 28, 2017

Ive only met a handful in real life so it was a bad generalization. To be fair they were all wasted at my buddy's fraternity reunion and much older than us young guys (9-15yrs+)

Also, there are a fair amount of people on here who act like dicks because it's anonymous, but wouldn't have the brass to act that way to someone in real life.

Jul 27, 2017

Target middle Markets dude. Baird, Stifel, Piper Jaffray, Raymond James, KBW, Davidson, KeyBanc, and Fifth Securities just to name a few that have plenty of off-cycle . I mean dude there's more to life than the prestige of working at a bulge bracket bank the jackasses on this site talk about.

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Jul 28, 2017

I actually would prefer middle market. I want to eventually run and grow my family's business and think middle market exposure would be the best career exposure for that. Seeing what companies get bought and for what reason and all that. I don't have any aspirations to be a bezos (though that would be cool), but I dont think it is unrealistic to grow a business that does a few million a year and has 20 employees or something.

Oct 4, 2017

This year majorly sucks. But every year has sucked recently. If you're special, you'll get hired, but you're right -- no one is walking into a job this year.

Oct 4, 2017

Probably not gonna happen with any of the BB's, sorry to say. Just sticking with the SA classes for the most part. Ex/ Barclays said they're not recruiting this fall for any analysts or associates in any city. JPM seems to be doing relatively well though--interviewing for some additional spots. Hit up those MM's, maybe you'll get lucky. Also heard Jeffs is full and done now

Oct 4, 2017

BBs are filling all their spots with interns... (the few lucky ones who actually got offers). Boutiques / MMs are the best places to look this season.

Oct 4, 2017

Are you guys talking about Front Office/IB positions, or does this apply to Back Office/MO roles as well?

Oct 4, 2017

for the most part, any BB hiring activity already finished through the early interviews in August

Oct 4, 2017

Yep I know Jefferies and Nomura are only hiring interns.

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.

Oct 4, 2017

for london:

http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/115544/dam...
"Which banks are these? Our research suggests:
- Barclays Investment Bank has no full time graduate jobs left for 'investment bankers' in London. It does, however, have some sales jobs. It also has full time graduate traineeships going in in Dubai, Amsterdam, Moscow, and Tel Aviv.
- Deutsche Bank looks like it has no sales and trading graduate positions left in London for a 2013 start. It does have corporate finance though.
- JPMorgan also looks like it has no full time 2013 graduate jobs going in M&A/corporate finance, in capital markets, or in sales and trading. It does have quant graduate positions though.
- Morgan Stanley seems to have filled all its 2013 graduate places in London in M&A and sales and trading. It's still looking for people in technology and operations.
- Nomura appears to have no London-based full time graduate jobs going in M&A and no full time London-based investment banking jobs in sales and trading."

Oct 4, 2017

cost cutting everywhere across the board. (new) hiring's slowing, people getting cut, payout's falling, zero bonuses. firms exiting whole businesses altogether. we've missed the boat by like 10years!

biggest advise i have - do all you can to get that internship. it's the first foot in the door, the qualifier. it matters more (in some ways) than good grades or a good university (but a bit endogenous, as you probably need those to get an internship in the first place).

Oct 4, 2017

I'm not aware of any banks that have a regular FT recruiting/hiring process without an SA program. That said, many of the smaller boutiques don't put stock in their interns filling full-time spots, they hire for FT based on need. As such, you just need to get on as many firm's radars as possible so you're in the running when a full-time spot does become available.

Oct 4, 2017

The only bank I know that does that is Stephens. They actually have no SA program and still recruit a decent amount of analysts in South East.

Oct 4, 2017

5-20 man boutiques hire FT without a SA class if that's what your asking. A good amount of the small boutiques will have interns and SAs but there are a handful that just recruit on a needs basis.

I know a couple of firms who will let you get a gig as an intern for 2-3 months after graduation, have you pass your exams (some boutiques require series 7 on top of the other IB licenses because you will be a cap markets guy also) , then have the opportunity to join the firm full time. However, from my experience, those internships are unpaid or they just pay for travel,food, etc.. until you A) pass the exams B) do a good job and get a FT offer

Oct 4, 2017

I got a FT offer with a firm that rejected me oughtright for SA so guess that answers it. They never mentioned it either.

Oct 4, 2017
Oconnor:

I got a FT offer with a firm that rejected me oughtright for SA so guess that answers it. They never mentioned it either.

2nd. I got offers from one bank that I made it to the final round of SA interviews and from a bank that didn't even give me a first round interview.

Oct 4, 2017
Oct 4, 2017

Can you interview with the same group and if you know the people still remember you or no?

Oct 4, 2017

grow a mustache and hope that they dont recognize you

Oct 4, 2017

I got an FT at a place that rejected me for SA, and I had the exact same guy in the interview that didn't bring me back for a second round the first time and definitely recognized me. I postured myself as having been really disappointed that I did get the job the first time around [I said it was a "big wake up call"] and pointed to a bunch of stuff that I had done in between to make myself a more attractive candidate. They seemed to go for it. Good luck.

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