How Amazon Is Disrupting MBA Recruiting

Amazon is aggressively recruiting MBAs, replacing banks and consulting firms as the #1 recruiter at many of the programs. Through sheer size, Amazon is sending recruiters en masse to campus, and other firms are deliberately avoiding scheduling events on the same dates as Amazon.

I'm not convinced that this is due to Amazon being so awesome but rather is the result of the decline of finance recruiting at MBA programs and consulting being shit due to the travel and lifestyle. Moreover, Amazon is the tech firm most open to hiring MBAs without a technical background.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/forget-wall-street-m-...

How Amazon Is Disrupting MBA Recruiting

Amazon has become a major force in nearly every industry. They snap up graduate students in mass quantities across a variety of fields and MBA students are no different. So how is Amazon disrupting MBA recruiting?

Why Amazon Is Hiring So Many MBAs

At almost 1,000 new MBA hires a year, Amazon must have quite the need to fill. But, why does Amazon need so many MBAs? First and foremost, for the kind of growth and ingenuity that takes place at Amazon it is necessary to find leaders that are innovative, risk-takers, and strong analytically. Amazon hires MBAs for jobs like technical product management, business development, and operations in retail and finance. MBA employees have been involved in groundbreaking projects like one hour delivery, one click shopping and Amazon Prime. Because so many aspects of the business and major projects require many MBAs to succeed, Amazon has had to hire them by the boatload.

How Does Amazon Attract So Many MBAs

We've talked about how there are a huge quantity of Amazon MBA jobs, but how do they entice prospects to pursue and accept them? They use the same aggressive strategy that they use with expanding their business. They:

  • Recruit like crazy (hold multiple events, connect with prospects through meetings over coffee, lunch etc.).
  • Offer competitive positions such as senior project manager.
  • Offer competitive pay (mid six-figures plus massive benefits)
  • Give you an opportunity to be a part of something huge. Amazon is one of the biggest and fastest growing companies in the world.
  • Offer great hours. You work much more regularly and far less overtime and less travel than at the big banks.

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Comments (87)

Oct 5, 2017

While it's true that Amazon is hiring a lot of MBAs, I completely agree that it is not really the result of Amazon being awesome. To be fair, Amazon did hire a lot of my classmates, but without saying that they scraped the bottom of the barrel, they clearly didn't get the best candidates from my program, far from it. The general opinion on the company isn't all that hot, the work environment / culture has a very bad rep, they pay significantly less than GOOG / FB / AAPL and pretty much every one I know that applied got an offer so it's not like they are the more selective of employer so a lot of people ended there as a result of not getting anything better.

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Oct 5, 2017
mtnmmnn:

While it's true that Amazon is hiring a lot of MBAs, I completely agree that it is not really the result of Amazon being awesome. To be fair, Amazon did hire a lot of my classmates, but without saying that they scraped the bottom of the barrel, they clearly didn't get the best candidates from my program, far from it. The general opinion on the company isn't all that hot, the work environment / culture has a very bad rep, they pay significantly less than GOOG / FB / AAPL and pretty much every one I know that applied got an offer so it's not like they are the more selective of employer so a lot of people ended there as a result of not getting anything better.

Interesting point and articles like this definitely need to be understood in context. I would imagine Amazon can hire more MBAs at certain schools than every firm in certain industries. Out of curiosity, does Amazon recruit after other industries or towards the beginning of OCR? Would be curious to know as one of the career service folks in the article made it seem as if the banks are afraid of them and don't want to be on campus recruiting at the same time.

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers

Oct 5, 2017

From my experience (I graduated in 2014 so maybe it changed), they were probably the only company that had more than one recruiting drive (ie. they did a round of FT recruiting along everyone else in the fall, but also did a huge recruiting push in Feb / March the following year). Although banking really isn't that popular at the moment, I would think that there isn't much overlap between people wanting to do banking vs. people interested in AMZ so I am a bit puzzled by that quote.

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Oct 5, 2017
mtnmmnn:

While it's true that Amazon is hiring a lot of MBAs, I completely agree that it is not really the result of Amazon being awesome. To be fair, Amazon did hire a lot of my classmates, but without saying that they scraped the bottom of the barrel, they clearly didn't get the best candidates from my program, far from it. The general opinion on the company isn't all that hot, the work environment / culture has a very bad rep, they pay significantly less than GOOG / FB / AAPL and pretty much every one I know that applied got an offer so it's not like they are the more selective of employer so a lot of people ended there as a result of not getting anything better.

I went to a top b-school as well, and Amazon was routinely mocked on campus. It was seen as a "last resort" along with investment banking.

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Oct 6, 2017

Hilarious

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Oct 9, 2017

Interesting to hear - at my school (Johnson, it's not a secret) they were the top hirer in my class. They got a range of quality - some very strong students, some less so. What I think you're missing here is that they don't really compete that much with banking/consulting. In my class, people generally decided to recruit for banking, consulting, or corporate and there was very little overlap. People who were going for consulting only applied to consulting jobs, bankers applied to banking jobs, etc. Amazon competed mostly with other corporates. In that general area the location and comp are very competitive (Seattle isn't the greatest city every but much better than some other corporate locations).

Oct 5, 2017

How's the pay? What can a 1st year MBA hire expect to make all in?

Oct 5, 2017

Not enough to justify getting an MBA. Less than a 1st year IB analyst.

Oct 5, 2017
TrackBack:

Not enough to justify getting an MBA. Less than a 1st year IB analyst.

That's clearly false, unless you meant to say "associate" rather than analyst.

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Nov 6, 2017

Joined just to comment on this thread. Depends on the function, but roughly 200-225k total comp for the first year. If you PM me, I can give you specifics on my offer.

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Oct 5, 2017

200K all in year 1?? What the heck is going on over there?

If this is true then it shouldn't be surprising that so many MBAs would gun for it. That's above the median-actually above the top 75th-for most non H or S schools.

Someone needs to work up a definitive comp guide to this place per position, as we've seen some wild swings in this thread alone. I missed the boat on Amazon as I heard it churned and burned through employees, but would have def. given it a look for these numbers.

Oct 5, 2017
Yankee Commodore:

Joined just to comment on this thread. Depends on the function, but roughly 200-225k total comp for the first year. If you PM me, I can give you specifics on my offer.

No; this is incorrect. That figure would only be for SDEs (software development engineers) and TPMs (technical product managers), not the standard post-MBA roles in finance, product, marketing, operations.

Oct 6, 2017

As someone who recently graduated from a top school, I would echo the above. They are all over campus for everything from product management to finance to operations. For PM roles, it's still a popular sought after company because there are so few PM roles and a lot of people who want to do it. But it is still lower on the rung than the FB/MSFT/Apple/GOOG and other places like linkedin or even fintech companies like sofi. For industry agnostic people they also tend to prefer top apparel (Nike operations), CPG (Ab/Inbev), or Media (Sony) companies too. And for many its below start ups. For people that want banking, most get it from my school in some form, but the ones who didn't mostly ended up in some form of financial services still. And the few who went corporate went into the we'll known rotational programs. I would say I actually don't know that many people who went there from my school, as most tech people got better jobs.

I would counter the above that banking/consulting isn't as popular now as before. Banking is probably on the upswing again, with the most people wanting it since the crisis. It's just the landscape has changed and EBs are taking a ton of the top talent away from BBs. Consultants are everywhere, more people want to do it than there are slots, and that continues to be the case.

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Oct 6, 2017
AllDay_028:

As someone who recently graduated from a top school, I would echo the above. They are all over campus for everything from product management to finance to operations. For PM roles, it's still a popular sought after company because there are so few PM roles and a lot of people who want to do it. But it is still lower on the rung than the FB/MSFT/Apple/GOOG and other places like linkedin or even fintech companies like sofi. For industry agnostic people they also tend to prefer top apparel (Nike operations), CPG (Ab/Inbev), or Media (Sony) companies too. And for many its below start ups. For people that want banking, most get it from my school in some form, but the ones who didn't mostly ended up in some form of financial services still. And the few who went corporate went into the we'll known rotational programs. I would say I actually don't know that many people who went there from my school, as most tech people got better jobs.

I would counter the above that banking/consulting isn't as popular now as before. Banking is probably on the upswing again, with the most people wanting it since the crisis. It's just the landscape has changed and EBs are taking a ton of the top talent away from BBs. Consultants are everywhere, more people want to do it than there are slots, and that continues to be the case.

Looks like there are 6 MBA programs at Amazon - I think the PM program only hires from M7/T10 schools, and the other programs are easier to get into, with people from T20 schools getting in.

https://www.amazon.jobs/en/teams/mba-internship?ba...

Oct 6, 2017

This has come up a few times on WSO, but what is the rational your classmates gave for choosing EBs over BBs? I always felt like the resources and ability to market a variety of products to clients made BBs the preferred choice over EBs at the associate level, but I was only an analyst, not an associate, so I do not know from first hand experience.

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Oct 6, 2017
Sil:

This has come up a few times on WSO, but what is the rational your classmates gave for choosing EBs over BBs? I always felt like the resources and ability to market a variety of products to clients made BBs the preferred choice over EBs at the associate level, but I was only an analyst, not an associate, so I do not know from first hand experience.

I think it's two fold.

1) With the regulatory landscape and M&A market as it is now (6 banks on a deal at a time, but maybe 2 did any actual interesting work) lends itself to doing perceived "better" work at an EB over a BB. I have a buddy at a BB who told me, no joke, he spends 70% of his time on shit like credit memos that he wouldn't have to do if he was at an advisory only shop. On top of that, unless you are at GS/MS, you are almost definitely spending a significant amount of your time doing work around lending, likely more than you are around advisory and M&A. That doesn't happen at EBs and people tend to want to focus on the latter. And with the M&A pie continually shifting towards EBs, it just makes this more true.

2) The idea, whether true or not, that EBs treat you like an adult far sooner than BBs do. You are running your own processes sooner, having the ability to carve out your own path and career sooner, build your own business sooner, Etc. It lends itself to those that see themselves as more entrepreneurial or needing less help, with the upside being larger due to the fact that the pay disparity continues to widen. At the top EBs right, an associate out of business school might make as much as 100k-125k more than at a BB in the first 18 months. That gap widens the more senior you get and its not gradual. So you have a combination of greater responsibility quicker, more control over your career, and significantly better pay from the get go.

BBs are still seen as more of the "safe" choice, but the candidates who see themselves as more self sufficient tend to basically put GS/MS/top EBs above everyone else. At least, that was my take on it in my class.

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Oct 5, 2017
AllDay_028:

As someone who recently graduated from a top school, I would echo the above. They are all over campus for everything from product management to finance to operations. For PM roles, it's still a popular sought after company because there are so few PM roles and a lot of people who want to do it. But it is still lower on the rung than the FB/MSFT/Apple/GOOG and other places like linkedin or even fintech companies like sofi. For industry agnostic people they also tend to prefer top apparel (Nike operations), CPG (Ab/Inbev), or Media (Sony) companies too. And for many its below start ups. For people that want banking, most get it from my school in some form, but the ones who didn't mostly ended up in some form of financial services still. And the few who went corporate went into the we'll known rotational programs. I would say I actually don't know that many people who went there from my school, as most tech people got better jobs.

I would counter the above that banking/consulting isn't as popular now as before. Banking is probably on the upswing again, with the most people wanting it since the crisis. It's just the landscape has changed and EBs are taking a ton of the top talent away from BBs. Consultants are everywhere, more people want to do it than there are slots, and that continues to be the case.

Interesting. I graduated within the last few years from a finance heavy program (Wharton/Columbia/Booth/MIT), and banking was seen as the last resort. I remember showing up to the campus building for first round interviews, and the people who were there for banking literally looked like they were at a family funeral. Out of my buddies who went into banking, only one actually likes it.

Consulting has always been popular and always will be, as they are the #1 MBA recruiting industry. No surprise there.

I do think Amazon is less prestigious than Google and Facebook, mainly because those two require more technical expertise and hence tougher interviews. Most PMs at Google and Facebook know how to code, for instance.

I think there's 3 main reasons why Amazon is not getting the cream of the crop at the top MBA programs.

  1. Prestige perception: fairly or unfairly, Amazon is still considered as a glorified online retail company. They are doing some amazing things, and Bezos is probably the best CEO in the country, but that is the perception. In contrast, Google/Facebook are seen as super sexy companies on the cutting edge (Facebook is retarded; the world will be a competition between Google and Amazon). Perception is reality, and MBAs are obsessed with prestige.
  2. Compensation: this is a problem as well when compared to its rivals. Amazon is notoriously frugal, and it is reflected in all areas. The company has a MAXIMUM base salary cap of just $160K, with the rest of the compensation coming from your signing bonus and RSUs that vest over 4 years. Unlike other tech firms, however, where the vesting happens in equal increments, Amazon's vesting is backloaded. In the first year, 5% vests, 15% in the second year, and then 20% every 6 months in years 3 and 4. This is a way of "trapping" Amazon employees to staying long-term. For MBAs, many of whom are in debt and need cash right away, this proposition could be a deal breaker. Let's also not forget perks. At Amazon, there is no free food; even soft drinks are not free. And if you travel for work, Amazon will only pay for the cheapest coach flights, even for international flights.
  3. Seattle. LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. Did I mention location? Yeah, I think I did. The notion that location does not matter is one of the biggest lies out there. For single people, especially, it is absolutely critical and will have an effect on one's overall happiness. Let's consider the fact that graduates of top MBA programs flock to a handful of cities. In the HBS class of 2017, 23% went to NYC, 15% went to SF Bay Area, and 14% to Boston. Only 4% ended up in Seattle. So from a network and social standpoint, it's tough since most of your school friends won't be in Seattle with you. The city also lacks the diversity, urban dynamism, and energy of the others. It's essentially a glorified suburb and company town. And for single men, Seattle is probably the worst major U.S. city for dating. That matters. A LOT.
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Oct 6, 2017
Rufus1234:
AllDay_028:

As someone who recently graduated from a top school, I would echo the above. They are all over campus for everything from product management to finance to operations. For PM roles, it's still a popular sought after company because there are so few PM roles and a lot of people who want to do it. But it is still lower on the rung than the FB/MSFT/Apple/GOOG and other places like linkedin or even fintech companies like sofi. For industry agnostic people they also tend to prefer top apparel (Nike operations), CPG (Ab/Inbev), or Media (Sony) companies too. And for many its below start ups. For people that want banking, most get it from my school in some form, but the ones who didn't mostly ended up in some form of financial services still. And the few who went corporate went into the we'll known rotational programs. I would say I actually don't know that many people who went there from my school, as most tech people got better jobs.

I would counter the above that banking/consulting isn't as popular now as before. Banking is probably on the upswing again, with the most people wanting it since the crisis. It's just the landscape has changed and EBs are taking a ton of the top talent away from BBs. Consultants are everywhere, more people want to do it than there are slots, and that continues to be the case.

Interesting. I graduated within the last few years from a finance heavy program (Wharton/Columbia/Booth/MIT), and banking was seen as the last resort. I remember showing up to the campus building for first round interviews, and the people who were there for banking literally looked like they were at a family funeral. Out of my buddies who went into banking, only one actually likes it.

Consulting has always been popular and always will be, as they are the #1 MBA recruiting industry. No surprise there.

I do think Amazon is less prestigious than Google and Facebook, mainly because those two require more technical expertise and hence tougher interviews. Most PMs at Google and Facebook know how to code, for instance.

I think there's 3 main reasons why Amazon is not getting the cream of the crop at the top MBA programs.

    - Prestige perception: fairly or unfairly, Amazon is still considered as a glorified online retail company. They are doing some amazing things, and Bezos is probably the best CEO in the country, but that is the perception. In contrast, Google/Facebook are seen as super sexy companies on the cutting edge (Facebook is retarded; the world will be a competition between Google and Amazon). Perception is reality, and MBAs are obsessed with prestige.
    - Compensation: this is a problem as well when compared to its rivals. Amazon is notoriously frugal, and it is reflected in all areas. The company has a MAXIMUM base salary cap of just $160K, with the rest of the compensation coming from your signing bonus and RSUs that vest over 4 years. Unlike other tech firms, however, where the vesting happens in equal increments, Amazon's vesting is backloaded. In the first year, 5% vests, 15% in the second year, and then 20% every 6 months in years 3 and 4. This is a way of "trapping" Amazon employees to staying long-term. For MBAs, many of whom are in debt and need cash right away, this proposition could be a deal breaker. Let's also not forget perks. At Amazon, there is no free food; even soft drinks are not free. And if you travel for work, Amazon will only pay for the cheapest coach flights, even for international flights.
    - Seattle. LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. Did I mention location? Yeah, I think I did. The notion that location does not matter is one of the biggest lies out there. For single people, especially, it is absolutely critical and will have an effect on one's overall happiness. Let's consider the fact that graduates of top MBA programs flock to a handful of cities. In the HBS class of 2017, 23% went to NYC, 15% went to SF Bay Area, and 14% to Boston. Only 4% ended up in Seattle. So from a network and social standpoint, it's tough since most of your school friends won't be in Seattle with you. The city also lacks the diversity, urban dynamism, and energy of the others. It's essentially a glorified suburb and company town. And for single men, Seattle is probably the worst major U.S. city for dating. That matters. A LOT.

Yea, I have a very different perception than you do on banking. I also went to one of the schools you mentioned and we send a lot of kids into banking every year (so not Sloan), many of who are coming from other areas of finance and some of who were bankers before and are trading up. It's true that not everyone likes it, and some leave, but I have a buddy who did small time PE before school and decided to do banking instead. A couple buddies who were traders. Some who were in AM. etc. At my school, at least, banking was getting more popular.

With Amazon I agree, it has a prestige perception problem. But it's not just the business, it's the recruiting. Any company that is recruiting heavily and makes it seem like they would take anyone at your MBA program takes a hit, because even at the top schools there are still a lot of morons. So when the top kids see it as easy to get a job there, it immediately makes them want to go a different direction. FB does a REALLY good job of acting like they are too good for MBAs, even the top ones, which of course makes people want to work there more. Pay is obviously an issue too, but lets be real, like 60% of people who go to top MBAs have the entirety of their lives paid for by their parents. I was one of a handful of people I knew paying out of my own pocket, with loans, for school.

Seattle is tough, at least google being in NYC helps them some, at least, IMO. But people are also generally ok with San Francisco (though, I don't get it, I think San Fran fucking sucks). But even with that, it seems that the other Seattle based companies are still seen as "better". I know people with both MSFT and Amazon offers and all of them took MSFT. But I think a lot of that goes back to the prior point.

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Oct 7, 2017

Good response. It's interesting that so many of your friends at BB are working on lending/credit memos. What group are they in?

The only groups that should really be touching credit related aspects are Lev Fin and perhaps industry coverage (on a high level) if the bank does not have dual coverage (corporate banking coverage that's the face of the bank AND investment banking coverage).

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Oct 6, 2017
B2Banker:

Good response. It's interesting that so many of your friends at BB are working on lending/credit memos. What group are they in?

The only groups that should really be touching credit related aspects are Lev Fin and perhaps industry coverage (on a high level) if the bank does not have dual coverage (corporate banking coverage that's the face of the bank AND investment banking coverage).

Most post MBA associates end up in industry coverage groups. That said, I have to admit I'm somewhat ignorant to how the work is divided between corporate banking and investment banking at the large BS banks (JPM/BAML/Citi) but those are where I hear these complaints regularly and the loudest.

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Oct 6, 2017

I ended up at Amazon via a startup acquisition. Definitely not the best place I've ever worked. They just have an incredible business and need a lot of bodies to keep things going.

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Oct 6, 2017

My buddy from college just left Amazon, based on what he's told me the perception is the reality. It's a grinder, toxic work environment and..Seattle. His description of Seattle is it's the worst of both worlds. Not nearly as fun as high cost of living cities like NYC and SF and much more expensive than lower cost of living cities like Denver.

"That was basically college for me, just ya know, fuckin' tourin' with Widespread Panic over the USA."

Best Response
Oct 5, 2017
WidespreadPanic90:

My buddy from college just left Amazon, based on what he's told me the perception is the reality. It's a grinder, toxic work environment and..Seattle. His description of Seattle is it's the worst of both worlds. Not nearly as fun as high cost of living cities like NYC and SF and much more expensive than lower cost of living cities like Denver.

Your buddy's description of Seattle is totally accurate. Look, if you are a single straight all-American male who loves America and gorgeous feminine women with pretty faces, banging bodies, know how to dress sexy, Seattle is the worst U.S. city for you. In Seattle you will be surrounded by tech geeks-many of whom are H1-B Visa foreigners who reek of body odor due to bad personal hygiene-weird America hating ANTIFA socialists who admire the Soviet Union, and ugly radical feminist women who wear p*ssy hats and still cry over Hillary's defeat.

To put it more bluntly: if Kim Jong Un nuked Seattle, I would not be THAT mad. But if he nuked Chicago or NYC, I would join the military and give my life for this country.

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Oct 7, 2017

I was regretting my decision to read these comments until I got to yours. Thank you, sir

Oct 6, 2017

Portland might be worse but more or less is the same thing.

"That was basically college for me, just ya know, fuckin' tourin' with Widespread Panic over the USA."

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Oct 9, 2017

They want to bring in a bunch of bright people into the fold. Bottom of what exactly? An Ivy League business school? They offer solid comp in a low COL city with better hours than client services like banking or consulting and the comp balloons after you've made a long term investment in the company...Which is the coveted "exit opp" from consulting. From everything I've read your problem with Amazon is that more of your peers weren't rejected by them. After 5 years at Amazon if you either 1) aren't making enough money 2) haven't had the right door open or 3) aren't sure what you want and need 10 different exit opps...That's a personal problem.

Oct 5, 2017
Roka:

They want to bring in a bunch of bright people into the fold. Bottom of what exactly? An Ivy League business school? They offer solid comp in a low COL city with better hours than client services like banking or consulting and the comp balloons after you've made a long term investment in the company...Which is the coveted "exit opp" from consulting. From everything I've read your problem with Amazon is that more of your peers weren't rejected by them. After 5 years at Amazon if you either 1) aren't making enough money 2) haven't had the right door open or 3) aren't sure what you want and need 10 different exit opps...That's a personal problem.

I went to a top 5 MBA program, and yes, my classmates who ended up at Amazon had far weaker pre-MBA resumes than those who went into more selective firms. I'm sure they exist, but I don't know anyone who turned down MBB or a top BB/EB for Amazon. If you've seen differently at your b-school, that's fine. I'm just speaking from my experience.

Moreover, although cheaper than NYC and SF, Seattle certainly is not a "low COL" city. According to various cost of living indexes, Seattle is virtually tied with LA when it comes to overall COL. Its rent has skyrocketed in recent years due to the Amazon effect.

I said specifically that if you've been at Amazon for 5+ years and done well, you'll be making pretty good money. So not sure what your point is here. With respect to MBB, my central point was that they provide a wider range of exit opps and greater versatility than joining Amazon post-MBA.

Oct 9, 2017

You're sneering at the "bottom" of an Ivy League business school, which begs pointing out that there's not a single function the "higher ranked" classmates at a BB do that the "lower" classmates can't do.

Regarding COL, most MBAs, especially geared toward banking or consulting, end up in NYC, SF, Chicago, DC or Boston... how does the COL compare to the offers your other classmates received in the cities they received them in? See how that works, don't use bullshit national averages to compare packages in NYC and Seattle.

My point regarding time at Amazon is that the comp catches up and the same "exit opps" you claim to covet are being offered right out of the gate or within reach to those applying to Amazon, so a more accurate estimation would be that for your classmates that know what they want and don't want to work brutal hours...Amazon is an awesome choice. Why you're shitting on it is beyond me.

Oct 9, 2017

Regarding your cringe worthy "all-American male who loves America" spiel, it's worth pointing out that 1) that implies an outdated and narrow mindset and 2) ignores the fact that Houston, Chicago, DC, NYC, Boston, Seattle, SF, LA, Miami, Dallas and Atlanta all leaned democrat or liberal at least during the last election. So if left leaning politics kills a city and company for you...tell me how much your dating life picks up in Amarillo Texas and what the exit opps are for "consulting" on sheep and tractors.

Funniest
Oct 5, 2017
Roka:

Regarding your cringe worthy "all-American male who loves America" spiel, it's worth pointing out that 1) that implies an outdated and narrow mindset and 2) ignores the fact that Houston, Chicago, DC, NYC, Boston, Seattle, SF, LA, Miami, Dallas and Atlanta all leaned democrat or liberal at least during the last election. So if left leaning politics kills a city and company for you...tell me how much your dating life picks up in Amarillo Texas and what the exit opps are for "consulting" on sheep and tractors.

Someone got triggered. Aside from the fact that you can't take a joke, there is a big difference between a city that Hillary won (i.e., Houston/Dallas/Chicago) and Seattle/SF, in terms of overall cultural and social atmosphere. Or do you really think all major cities that Hillary won are equivalent and offer similar experiences?

Let's take Seattle for instance.

1) The city has actual socialists on the city council.
2) The city passed a $15 minimum wage law that is having a negative impact on businesses.
3) The city passed a city income tax that actually violates the Washington state constitution.
4) The city refuses to clean up streets and let the homeless run wild because well, the council is composed of nutjobs.
5) The city went for Bernie fucking Sanders in the democratic primary

This is just the political aspect. Not gonna even get into the cultural and social aspects.

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Oct 9, 2017

"Triggered" is labeling me easier than confronting an opposing idea?

I think you've just stated several reasons to hate Seattle that have zero impact on your day to day life there or working at Amazon. That also ignores those same qualities in most major metros. In terms of culture I think you're looking to work in a major metro, in a white collar job, in a client facing role and in relatively affluent circles, which is a very similar experience regardless of which city you're in. I've worked in major metros across several countries (and languages) and have found more common ground than differences in terms of views, beliefs and outlook. Leading me to believe that someone who can't find their niche or make a city their home would have difficulty doing so anywhere else.

Oct 9, 2017

Baton Rouge? Report your findings from the promised land, and show-off your prestigious parish maintenance contract to those plebes at Oracle. Lmao

Oct 5, 2017

Some of the perspectives on here are hilarious. Suggesting that $160K for a corporate gig is chump change and describing a 5 year path to mid six figures as if it were a life sentence. My medical resident cousin laughed when I showed her this.

What I find most interesting is the split between those who value time and those who value prestige. I'll offer a different take because I did the reverse of what most MBAs do-left a run of the mill corporate gig that I'd enjoyed the past 2 years to jump ship to an "elite" one. The money and perks are excellent, but I no longer have the time to do jack shit. The days all blur together, I get home with my synapses completely burned out, and I'm sprouting grey hairs all over the place. It's 4 fucking AM and I'm posting to this thread while waiting to join a call that starts on the other side of the planet. At my last gig I was dating strippers and visiting 2-3 countries a year.

I now understand why so many of my banking and consulting friends frequently sent me resumes at the last gig, and 2 years out, most have transitioned into Amazon-like corporate roles. A few have ended up at Amazon. Those vaunted exit opps do exist in Consulting, but mostly for people who manage to make it to higher levels before exiting.

Any gig that can start you off at 120-160, offers you great 5 year upside, and enables you to have a life outside of work is going to be highly coveted. No dog in this fight, just amusing to see folks trash what's turning out to be the most sought after company for MBAs because it's not considered selective enough.

Oct 9, 2017

Early on I had the perspective broadening experience of long working hours and a culture that demanded work become your lifestyle. I've found I prefer long lunches, sleeping in and picnics.

Oct 9, 2017

SB'd for the balanced perspective and naked reality. Curious if you've begun plotting your next move, and having seen both sides, which have you found more agreeable?

Oct 5, 2017

Really depends on your drive and ambition. The handful of guys I know still in IB from our class are sort of stuck because moving as a 3rd year Associate would require taking big pay cuts-so they've been effectively golden handcuffed. Some of them are starting families now, too, which makes it even tougher, so will be interesting to see how they meet their time demands. But they're the exact people I expected to be in these spots, because they were your prototypical gunners/strivers. I imagine much of WSO has a similar makeup.

I probably wouldn't take another gig that gives me anxiety whenever my phone buzzes in the middle of the night. I don't mind crazy hours for interesting work, but not being able to control your schedule makes you feel as if you're always at the mercy of the work. Still, I'm in no position to complain and am saving a ton.

Longer term I'd probably head back to corporate for a more laid back role, preferably in a low COL, so that I can still afford material comforts while enjoying what's left of my "youth".

Oct 5, 2017
TheGrind:

Some of the perspectives on here are hilarious. Suggesting that $160K for a corporate gig is chump change and describing a 5 year path to mid six figures as if it were a life sentence. My medical resident cousin laughed when I showed her this.

What I find most interesting is the split between those who value time and those who value prestige. I'll offer a different take because I did the reverse of what most MBAs do-left a run of the mill corporate gig that I'd enjoyed the past 2 years to jump ship to an "elite" one. The money and perks are excellent, but I no longer have the time to do jack shit. The days all blur together, I get home with my synapses completely burned out, and I'm sprouting grey hairs all over the place. It's 4 fucking AM and I'm posting to this thread while waiting to join a call that starts on the other side of the planet. At my last gig I was dating strippers and visiting 2-3 countries a year.

I now understand why so many of my banking and consulting friends frequently sent me resumes at the last gig, and 2 years out, most have transitioned into Amazon-like corporate roles. A few have ended up at Amazon. Those vaunted exit opps do exist in Consulting, but mostly for people who manage to make it to higher levels before exiting.

Any gig that can start you off at 120-160, offers you great 5 year upside, and enables you to have a life outside of work is going to be highly coveted. No dog in this fight, just amusing to see folks trash what's turning out to be the most sought after company for MBAs because it's not considered selective enough.

Great post. You are one of WSO's invaluable posters.

I don't disagree with anything you said. After all, life is about cost-benefit tradeoffs. I agree that Amazon is highly appealing for people who crave a certain lifestyle. I certainly don't begrudge them that.

My main point was NOT that Amazon is a bad company to work at. I simply thought that the WSJ piece was a fluff piece, which is unusual given that WSJ writes really good articles. It gave off the impression that students at top MBA programs are really turning down MBB and other "elite" roles en masse to work at Amazon. It did not say this explicitly, but it was implied, and people who don't know much about the MBA recruiting landscape might have arrived at that conclusion. I simply wanted to correct that and point out that Amazon on the whole is not getting the top talent.

Also, a minor correction to one of your points. Making $500K/year at Amazon within 5 years of joining after MBA is pretty rare actually. The typical MBA, by that point, would be a L7 (senior manager), and on average will probably be pulling in the $250-$300K range once we take into account vested RSUs. My best friend graduated MBA in 2013 and recently made principal at a MBB consulting firm and including year-end bonus, will probably clear in the $400-$500K/range. Of course, he works hard, but it is worth mentioning that very few MBAs turn down MBB for Amazon. Not a single person at my school did.

Oct 6, 2017
Rufus1234:
TheGrind:

Some of the perspectives on here are hilarious. Suggesting that $160K for a corporate gig is chump change and describing a 5 year path to mid six figures as if it were a life sentence. My medical resident cousin laughed when I showed her this.

What I find most interesting is the split between those who value time and those who value prestige. I'll offer a different take because I did the reverse of what most MBAs do-left a run of the mill corporate gig that I'd enjoyed the past 2 years to jump ship to an "elite" one. The money and perks are excellent, but I no longer have the time to do jack shit. The days all blur together, I get home with my synapses completely burned out, and I'm sprouting grey hairs all over the place. It's 4 fucking AM and I'm posting to this thread while waiting to join a call that starts on the other side of the planet. At my last gig I was dating strippers and visiting 2-3 countries a year.

I now understand why so many of my banking and consulting friends frequently sent me resumes at the last gig, and 2 years out, most have transitioned into Amazon-like corporate roles. A few have ended up at Amazon. Those vaunted exit opps do exist in Consulting, but mostly for people who manage to make it to higher levels before exiting.

Any gig that can start you off at 120-160, offers you great 5 year upside, and enables you to have a life outside of work is going to be highly coveted. No dog in this fight, just amusing to see folks trash what's turning out to be the most sought after company for MBAs because it's not considered selective enough.

Great post. You are one of WSO's invaluable posters.

I don't disagree with anything you said. After all, life is about cost-benefit tradeoffs. I agree that Amazon is highly appealing for people who crave a certain lifestyle. I certainly don't begrudge them that.

My main point was NOT that Amazon is a bad company to work at. I simply thought that the WSJ piece was a fluff piece, which is unusual given that WSJ writes really good articles. It gave off the impression that students at top MBA programs are really turning down MBB and other "elite" roles en masse to work at Amazon. It did not say this explicitly, but it was implied, and people who don't know much about the MBA recruiting landscape might have arrived at that conclusion. I simply wanted to correct that and point out that Amazon on the whole is not getting the top talent.

Also, a minor correction to one of your points. Making $500K/year at Amazon within 5 years of joining after MBA is pretty rare actually. The typical MBA, by that point, would be a L7 (senior manager), and on average will probably be pulling in the $250-$300K range once we take into account vested RSUs. My best friend graduated MBA in 2013 and recently made principal at a MBB consulting firm and including year-end bonus, will probably clear in the $400-$500K/range. Of course, he works hard, but it is worth mentioning that very few MBAs turn down MBB for Amazon. Not a single person at my school did.

No that important, but do you know what's the deal with titles at Amazon? I did some quick research on LinkedIn, and it seems like PM join as Senior Managers, and all the others (Retail/Ops/Finance) join as Managers and have to work up to becoming a Senior Manager?

Asking because am applying to B School and am interested in Amazon. Hopefully, HQ2 is in a better city. Some people might not care, but I do care about interacting with SJWs/Commies - which I hope to avoid.

Thanks,

    • 1
Oct 9, 2017

"very few MBAs turn down MBB for Amazon" - I think you're overstating the crossover in people who apply to both companies. In my experience, people recruit for corporate jobs or consulting jobs, not both. Even when they do both, it's usually with a strong preference for one and the other is more of a backup.

Oct 5, 2017

So Amazon will now be hiring 1,000 MBAs a year, roughly double that of each of the MBB consulting firms. While MBB recruiting is heavily focused on the top 10 programs (some 11-15ish programs, but not too many), Amazon recruits across a much wider array of schools.

Nov 3, 2017

Brady, did you get rejected from Amazon? It's not that big a deal, not everyone gets in

    • 4
Nov 29, 2018

Sharing what the comp looks like at b-school these days (had offers from MBB, Google PM, Amazon PM-T). Comparing all roles at Amazon is not a fair comparison. The PM-T role is comparable and probably better than a Google PM. All other roles at Amazon and Google are not very prestigious and don't pay well.

MBB: 150-165k base, 15% annual bonus, 30k signing bonus
IB(GS,MS) associate: 150k base, 60k signing bonus, expected median 70% annual bonus
Google PM(technical role): Level 4 - 135k base, 60k signing bonus(all in year 1), 130k equity( over 4 years), bonus
Amazon Senior PM-T(technical role): Level 6 - 147k base, 90k signing bonus(50,40 year 1 year2), 125k equity(4 years, frontloaded equity), 15k relocation, bonus
Amazon Senior PM: Level 6 - 130k base, 80k signing, 80k equity, 15k relocation

Amazon PM-T pays reasonably well and the comp goes further in Seattle ($1 Seattle = $1.3 SF/bay). Whether Seattle compares to NYC/SF is debatable. Overall true product roles at tech companies pay a lot better than consulting(without even considering the work life balance etc.) and both Google and Amazon dont hire a lot in PM/PM-T(we are looking at 12-15 from all business schools, with the majority coming from tier 1). The reason why you wont have a lot of people saying no to MBB for Amazon/Google is because the consulting firms recruit before the tech companies and most tech folks would not consider MBB to be very prestigious given that a lot of McKinsey engagement managers also end up at PM positions at post MBA-ish levels.

Nov 29, 2018

I'd like to see the turnover rate among MBA holders at Amazon. I'd guess that many are going there purely because of the tech branding, which they can use for better firms later on (in the tech sector).

Sure, most would probably prefer Google, but it's not like having Amazon on your resume is going to close any doors, and besides, smaller companies, Unicorn startups, etc. love people with hard experience from larger similar firms - one of the largest (if not the largest) obstacles a startup will face is their growth / expansion.

I think it's the natural effect of how things are going. More and more firms are spending money on digitalization, and in essence "turning into" tech firms. People are taking the jobs they think will pay off better in the long run

Nov 29, 2018

Now that HQ 1.5 is coming to Arlington, VA (my backyard), Amazon is definitely going to be on my short list for future employment.