9/17/15

Mod Note (Andy): #TBT Throwback Thursday - this was originally posted on 7/6/12.

As a former summer/fulltime investment banking analyst, I've seen a few waves of Ivy League migrant workers come through New York.

A few tips for success for the upcoming crop of summer analysts who will be sweating it out on Wall Street:

  1. Don't be afraid to say no

    Summer analyst staffings are largely opportunistic. Nobody expects you to know much or do more than the very basics (and even then, your work will be checked). So don't try to be a hero and accept every request that comes your way - always keep in mind that the quality of your work is far more important than the perceived quantity.

  2. Take your time
    In a similar vein, nobody expects you to be very fast either. You will be expected to get up to speed on simple tasks, such as printing books, assembling PIBs/data room books, but for most other tasks, you'll get tons of time. Again, focus on quality - make sure your work is as error-free as possible. Always print and check the hard copy - there's something magic about HP printers that somehow makes mistakes pop out on paper. The quality of work given to you will increase with the quality of work you have proven you are capable of producing, so slow down and get it right.

  3. Don't ask smart questions

    The idiot who started telling summers that they should read the WSJ and "be informed" needs to be taken out back and shot. Hey, I'm sure your upper-div finance classes are cool and all, but most bankers aren't that interested in talking Operation Twist every day. In fact, most of the bankers you'll interact with most (junior and mid-level guys) are totally fucking clueless when it comes to the latest news or the outside world in general. So don't lean over someone's cubicle wall and lob in a Q about the steepness of the rate curve. You sound like a douchebag. Be informed to the point where you don't sound as if you live under a rock (although it's quite possible that you've been living under your desk, which is the same thing), but there's no need to ask these types of questions to show your intellectual curiosity.


  4. Do ask dumb questions

    This, in a single phrase, is the piece of advice that will allow you to capture the triple crown of summer analyst stardom. Asking dumb questions is great because:
    a. You will save time by avoiding the dreadful (and all too common) summer analyst wheel-spinning. Your improved knowledge base will allow you to take on more high quality responsibilities with greater confidence.
    b. You will develop a rapport with fulltime analysts/associates. They will know who you are, and they will know that you are engaged and (at least relatively) busy and hardworking. They will likely enjoy passing on bits of wisdom and knowledge, and you will make them feel like the teachers they wish they had become instead of the banking slaves they are. Just don't ask the same question too many times - this means if the answer is reasonably available (google, training manual or otherwise) or you've actually asked the question already, you can probably keep your mouth shut. But don't let the fear of "being annoying" paralyze you.
    c. You will show that you care about learning and improving. Nothing worse than a know-it-all summer analyst. If you happen to have a deep bench of finance knowledge, ask the work-specific questions that will help you leverage your existing skillset.


  5. Take notes

    You're here to learn and you're not given a ton of responsibility, so take notes and try to internalize the bits and pieces you pick up along the way. Don't try to transcribe everything like the overachieving type-A you actually are, just try not to let everything fly over your head. Taking notes will help you get more out of the dumb questions you ask, will help you eat your shit sandwiches faster, and will generally help you get faster at everything.


  6. Eat your shit sandwich with a smile

    This one's simple, but you'd be surprised at how many sociopaths make it into the summer analyst program. You're going to be expected to take on even the most menial tasks (provided you have the time - don't break rule #1) and do them well and without complaint. The difference may be subtle but it is critical. There is a huge difference between informing someone of your current project priorities and complaining. Complaining about work in any capacity tells people you're either hopelessly arrogant or weak-willed. Unfortunately, for a ten-week stint, you may get little sleep between the work and the socializing, but nobody feels sorry for you because you get to go back to college life after it's all over. So sack up.


  7. Be cool

    You got hired primarily because you seem personable. There were simply too many overqualified candidates to choose from in the recruiting cycle, so you were selected because the people who interviewed you thought you had the basic hard skills to succeed in banking (fifth grade reading ability, third grade math ability) and the basic soft skills to succeed in banking (college junior drinking ability). One of the most important factors in converting your SA gig into a fulltime role is to show that you can be part of a group. So don't be an overcompetitive jerkoff - be part of the group. Go out for drinks when people are rallying. Go out to long lunches with the group. Make friends. Just don't black out at the summer party and throw the group head into the pool.


  8. Be smart about what matters

    Not every classwide summer analyst event is important, and not every flyby staffing is important. This ties into rule #1, rule #6, and rule #7. You don't want to miss the big social event because you stayed in the office all night tweaking industry profiles for a pitch that won't happen for three weeks. You don't want to blow off the VP asking for industry profiles for tomorrow's pitch because you went to social events three nights in a row. There's a middle ground in terms of setting priorities, being a good soldier, and being a likeable guy - and the better you are at feeling it out, the better off you'll be. Don't be afraid to seek out advice in finding that middle ground.


  9. Find a mentor

    Unless you're a drooling leper, you'll be able to find an analyst or associate who will gladly take you under his/her wing for the summer. This may be your "official" mentor, someone who graduated from the same college, or just someone you had a good conversation with. Don't be creepy, but don't be afraid to follow up. A friend who knows the ins and outs of working as a fulltime junior banker will be a valuable sounding board and source of good advice. They will give you off the record information. They will be more willing to stretch their time to help you with your questions. In a pinch, they might even help you with your work. If you find yourself able to establish a "go-to" relationship with someone in your summer group, you have probably done well with rule #7.


  10. Be yourself

    There are a million guides of summer analyst do's and don'ts. However, it's very important to avoid mimicking the textbook and inject a bit of your own style into the role. Take attire for example. If you read the WSO forums, you may find some people who say you should always dress ultra-sharp and get a few nice suits. You may find some people who say pricey suits make you look arrogant and therefore you should buy cheaper suits. You will probably find a lot of people who say you should buy something in-between. There is no right answer. You should choose what you feel comfortable with. And if you have no opinion regarding your own comfort zone, you need to go back to school and develop a spine before carving out your spot on Wall Street. Following advice blindly is a recipe for disaster, because not everyone is as adept at executing on each piece of advice. Know yourself, don't try too hard to fake it. People have a funny way of sniffing out a phony, and most people don't like the smell. So don't spend time and effort stressing about whether you're following all the guidelines perfectly - just be yourself and rules 1-9 should fall right into place.

The last word: remember that in any competition, a significant proportion of the pool will self-eliminate. In other words, they will shoot themselves in the foot. Given that investment banking summer analyst gigs typically convert to fulltime offers >70% of the time (as they say, it's your job to lose), all you have to do is not royally fuck up to win the summer. And further down the road, if you're lucky, someone will give you a blog so you too can give questionable advice to future generations of summer analysts.

Comments (74)

7/6/12

3 is especially true, 99% of bankers have the intellectual curiosity (and often ability) of a hamster, they have no idea and no interest in the markets / the economy, so don't waste your time

7/6/12
leveredarb:

3 is especially true, 99% of bankers have the intellectual curiosity (and often ability) of a hamster, they have no idea and no interest in the markets / the economy, so don't waste your time

Has it always been like this or is this a new trend? and where do those who DO have a strong intellectual curiosity in markets/economy usually end up?

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7/6/12
AndyLouis:

where do those who DO have a strong intellectual curiosity in markets/economy usually end up?

Probably on buy side - portfolio managers, investment strategists, research analysts

The strangers in this town They raise you up just to cut you down
7/6/12
Going Concern:
AndyLouis:

where do those who DO have a strong intellectual curiosity in markets/economy usually end up?

Probably on buy side - portfolio managers, investment strategists, research analysts

Yup, my portfolio manager actually encourages me to ask and find out what's going on in the markets.

I messed up early on with number 2, i rushed through my work, and made some foolish errors. But i learned from that.

3/4/13

interesting. thanks for the input.

7/6/12

wow. good stuff

7/6/12

Made the mistake of breaking rule #3 early on, quickly learned from that.

7/6/12

Id give you an sb if I had some

7/6/12

well, I guess I am not getting a FT offer

I messed up which led to people avoiding me and not liking me which led to me to not getting invited to any social events which led me to be outcasted and not fit in with the group which led me to stop asking questions because they don't want to talk to me which led to me not learning the material

Born in hell, forged from suffering, hardened by pain.

7/6/12

OP can you let us know a little about your background?

A lot of your advice makes sense to me, but I have doubts about #1 for instance. I know in careers you have to know when to say know, but the summer internship is just ten weeks - aren't you expected to just suck it up for such a short period of time?

2/28/13

JDimon:
OP can you let us know a little about your background?

A lot of your advice makes sense to me, but I have doubts about #1 for instance. I know in careers you have to know when to say know, but the summer internship is just ten weeks - aren't you expected to just suck it up for such a short period of time?

I think what the OP is trying to highlight is that you don't have to say yes to every staffing and every last request. If you're blown up, don't just sit there idly and let someone toss some more work on your plate.

I wouldn't advise saying, "No way, can't take this." But one of the most important parts of the job is managing expectations. If you're at max capacity and won't be able to work on something I hand you, just say, "Hey, I can get to this, but I'm busy on x, y, z - what is timing like?" Don't be a yes-man. Taking on more work than you can handle is the fast way towards making a bunch of mistakes and missing deadlines. That's going to hurt you a lot more than having pushed back a bit on the profile book that some analyst handed you.

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."

7/7/12

One thing i've learned during my internship, is that there's a group of FT'ers who always have valuable work for me and another group who never has any work for me or if they do, it's very tedious. So whenever I'm looking for work, I go to the guys who give me meaningful work, and if there isn't anything, I'll chill for a bit before going to the ones with the tedious work, they always have something.

2/28/13

Lotin:
One thing i've learned during my internship, is that there's a group of FT'ers who always have valuable work for me and another group who never has any work for me or if they do, it's very tedious. So whenever I'm looking for work, I go to the guys who give me meaningful work, and if there isn't anything, I'll chill for a bit before going to the ones with the tedious work, they always have something.

This is spot-on.

Another point- in my SA stint, I noticed a strong correlation between being a good/great FT analyst and that analyst giving out meaningful work. Quickly find out who a few of the top analysts are, make friends with them, then go to them (almost exclusively) when you have some bandwidth.

If you do it right, these guys will give you better quality work (You're still an SA, so don't expect a merger model), teach you how to do it correctly/efficiently and eventually go to bat for you when it comes time to decide who is getting FT offers.

As a bonus, rockstar analysts are usually more fun to hang out with than the guys who suck...

"Utter commitment to the task at hand."

7/7/12

I think what matters the most is being yourself.

enough said.

2/28/13

Love the picture

"I did it for me...I liked it...I was good at it. And I was really... I was alive."

2/28/13

Does rule #3 apply for S&T internships? Seems like not asking about the markets would be fatal there.

2/28/13

Aaron Burr:
A
  • Don't ask smart questions

    The idiot who started telling summers that they should read the WSJ and "be informed" needs to be taken out back and shot. Hey, I'm sure your upper-div finance classes are cool and all, but most bankers aren't that interested in talking Operation Twist every day. In fact, most of the bankers you'll interact with most (junior and mid-level guys) are totally fucking clueless when it comes to the latest news or the outside world in general. So don't lean over someone's cubicle wall and lob in a Q about the steepness of the rate curve. You sound like a douchebag. Be informed to the point where you don't sound as if you live under a rock (although it's quite possible that you've been living under your desk, which is the same thing), but there's no need to ask these types of questions to show your intellectual curiosity.

  • I can understand the thought process behind not acting like a douche and trying to start a debate about government monetary policy, but it seems like very few bankers would look down on asking intelligent questions that show you understand the current overall macroeconomic conditions and industry trends.

    I received some very positive feedback mentioning that I was "engaged in the process" because I asked smart questions. (Asked an MD after a small strategy meeting what his thought process was in selecting X company instead of Y company as a possible acquisition target when both had very similar profiles)

    I also had another MD explicitly tell me that it is very important to him that I understand how my work fits into "the bigger picture". He actually wrote up a sample resume bullet describing my contribution to one of his deals to prove his point. Some senior bankers do care about you being more than an information processing robot.

    Long story short- don't be a tool who starts academic debates about QE3, but just because you're a monkey for the summer doesn't mean you should completely shut down any critical thinking.

    "Utter commitment to the task at hand."

    2/28/13

    CalTex Analyst:
    Aaron Burr:
    A
  • Don't ask smart questions

    The idiot who started telling summers that they should read the WSJ and "be informed" needs to be taken out back and shot. Hey, I'm sure your upper-div finance classes are cool and all, but most bankers aren't that interested in talking Operation Twist every day. In fact, most of the bankers you'll interact with most (junior and mid-level guys) are totally fucking clueless when it comes to the latest news or the outside world in general. So don't lean over someone's cubicle wall and lob in a Q about the steepness of the rate curve. You sound like a douchebag. Be informed to the point where you don't sound as if you live under a rock (although it's quite possible that you've been living under your desk, which is the same thing), but there's no need to ask these types of questions to show your intellectual curiosity.

  • I can understand the thought process behind not acting like a douche and trying to start a debate about government monetary policy, but it seems like very few bankers would look down on asking intelligent questions that show you understand the current overall macroeconomic conditions and industry trends.

    I received some very positive feedback mentioning that I was "engaged in the process" because I asked smart questions. (Asked an MD after a small strategy meeting what his thought process was in selecting X company instead of Y company as a possible acquisition target when both had very similar profiles)

    I also had another MD explicitly tell me that it is very important to him that I understand how my work fits into "the bigger picture". He actually wrote up a sample resume bullet describing my contribution to one of his deals to prove his point. Some senior bankers do care about you being more than an information processing robot.

    Long story short- don't be a tool who starts academic debates about QE3, but just because you're a monkey for the summer doesn't mean you should completely shut down any critical thinking.

    I don't think asking about a specific aspect of a deal is the type of question Aaron Burr was referring to. I think the point was more about external events/market news/academic theory and shit that isn't really relevant for someone in, say M&A.

    "For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."

    3/1/13

    duffmt6:
    CalTex Analyst:
    Aaron Burr:
    A
  • Don't ask smart questions

    The idiot who started telling summers that they should read the WSJ and "be informed" needs to be taken out back and shot. Hey, I'm sure your upper-div finance classes are cool and all, but most bankers aren't that interested in talking Operation Twist every day. In fact, most of the bankers you'll interact with most (junior and mid-level guys) are totally fucking clueless when it comes to the latest news or the outside world in general. So don't lean over someone's cubicle wall and lob in a Q about the steepness of the rate curve. You sound like a douchebag. Be informed to the point where you don't sound as if you live under a rock (although it's quite possible that you've been living under your desk, which is the same thing), but there's no need to ask these types of questions to show your intellectual curiosity.

  • I can understand the thought process behind not acting like a douche and trying to start a debate about government monetary policy, but it seems like very few bankers would look down on asking intelligent questions that show you understand the current overall macroeconomic conditions and industry trends.

    I received some very positive feedback mentioning that I was "engaged in the process" because I asked smart questions. (Asked an MD after a small strategy meeting what his thought process was in selecting X company instead of Y company as a possible acquisition target when both had very similar profiles)

    I also had another MD explicitly tell me that it is very important to him that I understand how my work fits into "the bigger picture". He actually wrote up a sample resume bullet describing my contribution to one of his deals to prove his point. Some senior bankers do care about you being more than an information processing robot.

    Long story short- don't be a tool who starts academic debates about QE3, but just because you're a monkey for the summer doesn't mean you should completely shut down any critical thinking.

    I don't think asking about a specific aspect of a deal is the type of question Aaron Burr was referring to. I think the point was more about external events/market news/academic theory and shit that isn't really relevant for someone in, say M&A.

    This. I work in private banking, and have good friends at the same firm in both S&T and IB. The guy in S&T know all about derivatives and equities in general, but only from a short-term view point. I can talk about long-term global macro economic trends that drive longer-term investment plans (what PB is all about) all day long, but I don't know anything about derivatives or options or any of that. Neither of us know much about financial statements, DCF's, or any of that stuff outside of what we learned in college when prepping for interviews. The girl in IB knows all of this cold, but some weeks when deals are flowing she couldn't guess the S&P close if you gave her a 500 point range. All 3 of us have FO finance analyst roles, yet what we do in our day-to-day and how we think is so different.

    tl;dr: Know your audience. The OP's point is that you aren't gonna come off as smart if you ask questions completely irrelevant to your LOB. A 50yr old M&A veteran is gonna wonder if you even know what the hell M&A is if you are asking him his opinion on if the weakness of the yen is a great short opportunity when what you should be asked him about is whether he thinks the current high corporate cash balances are going to be redistributed to shareholders or put to work in the M&A space.

    I would agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

    2/28/13

    Don't know how this came to the front page, but it's highly relevant so I threw you a banana.

    Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

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    3/4/13

    Thanks for the update. This helps.

    3/3/15

    This is great stuff! I'm starting in June, very excited!!

    3/3/15

    how does your title relate to your question, exactly?
    i mean i get it kind of but i don't see how this dilemma on hand is related to full time offers

    anyway, the rates at all the BBs are about the same
    i have heard that Citi and JPM in particular take a lot (like 75%) of their interns on for full time

    Wu noAi re

    3/3/15

    The question I'm asking is how do I convert an SA offer from a bank that I do not take to a full time offer after the summer. I am facing a dilemma because I accepted an exploding offer from a bank that is not doing very well because I had no other offers at the time. At this point I am looking to maximize my opportunities for full time.

    3/3/15

    take the lower BB SA. unless Morgan Stanley. MS has a higher conversation. GS has a pathetically low one. if "lower bb" SA is in NYC..you really have nothing to worry about

    3/3/15

    zeroblued, what did you mean by a higher conversation at MS?

    3/3/15

    MS is really good/nice to SAs... keeps most of their class unlike some other banks. Hard to get FT there since not many spots open up

    3/3/15

    How do you get offers at banks that you didn't do your SA stint at? Get an offer where you intern and shop it around. That's it.

    3/3/15

    That's precisely my question. Although I've already accepted at a bank, I'm wondering how much getting an internship offer at a better bank will help me get an interview at the better bank for full-time when it comes to full-time recruiting.

    Best Response
    3/3/15

    It isn't impossible to move between firms at the end of the summer. That brief flurry of recruiting in August and September where banks try to steal candidates from one another is called the incremental hiring period, and the guys who do best in it are often the ones who had multiple summer offers.

    The way to do this is to stay on top of your network. Continue building your network (find more alumni and contacts at each firm you've received an offer at but will not be summering at as well as strengthening your existing connections. This will pay dividends during the full-time recruiting process; if you have strong relationships and a return offer from your summer role, you can set up interviews everywhere that people know you.

    Explain your situation to the people at the other firms, acknowledge that you already signed before knowing you had an offer at their firm, and make sure to explicitly express interest in the full-time analyst program. "I really enjoyed meeting everyone at your firm and saw myself doing well there this summer, but unfortunately, I had to sign this offer before it expired. I would love to be kept under consideration for the full-time program though, and I'll make sure to stay in touch with you over the coming months."

    Stay fresh in their memory by pinging them over email every 4-6 weeks over the spring, then check in once as the summer analyst program starts and then every two weeks after that. Keep them updated on your progress, share feedback, keep enthusiastic (even if you hate it), and paint to them a picture that you're a hardworking kid who is doing well where he is but has not failed once to express his continued interest in working with them instead of where he is now.

    By week 8 you need to explicitly ask them for help in the hiring process. This is done best over the phone; step out for a call at lunchtime or in the afternoon (email first to make sure they're free). "I've gotten great feedback so far on X, Y, and Z dimensions and I feel confident going into my final review. I know that the full-time hiring process moves quickly, and I believe I'll face a very tight deadline at the end of the summer just like I did for the internship. Can you help me arrange an interview?"

    This works, simply put. You may get an interview before the internship is even over. You'll almost certainly get one within 1-2 weeks of the internship ending, because each bank wants to poach all the best candidates from each other ... and they know students are leaving the city to head back to school. Follow this formula, and you can turn your return offer into multiple full-time offers.

    In some rare cases (truly rare), this can be leverage for an increased signing bonus, particularly if there's one place that's offering you notably more than others but is one where you don't really want to work. e.g. You summered at BAML, received a return offer, shopped it around and got Centerview, JPM, Evercore, MS, and GHL offers. Centerview offered you $50k signing, JPM $15k, Evercore $25k ... but you really want to work at MS. You play ball, and MS winds up giving you $25k instead of their standard. You smile all the way to the bank and back to school. Profit.

    Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

    Browse my blog as a WSO contributing author

    3/3/15

    why the fuck are you so good at this... SB

    3/3/15

    This is exactly the information I was looking for. Thank you.

    3/3/15

    HUNGER.

    they hired you for summer because they know you're smart enough. it comes down to how much you want it. u should be the-first-in-last-out guy, actively seek out responsibility, be fun to be around even at 2am, and do your job without making mistakes. finished a pitchbook? check it. check it again.

    some people say summers have to impress to get FT, others say they just can't screw up to bad. depends on the bank.

    just do ur best and remember, if u have to choose between work and leaving an hour early to go clubbing, choose work. because once u have that FT offer, senior year will be one giant party.

    3/3/15
    pitchbitch:

    finished a pitchbook? check it. check it again.

    Let's talk about this a little. When you're up at 2AM and you're doing this, what do you check? Against other pitchbooks? Can't bother the associate an analyst, because they don't want to check your work...

    3/3/15

    check your work... ALWAYS!!!

    If you come across a foreign term, etc. b4 u ask a question, look it up...

    3/3/15

    Make use of the directory! Get to know as many people as you can- know everyone's name and make sure they know yours and that they remember you.

    3/3/15

    attention to detail
    and don't do anything stupid.. i have hear stories of a lot of qualified people doing stupid shit and losing offers....

    while its important to be on top of your work and know everyone's name, it is also important not to look like a tool....if your co-workers don't like you, they will find a way to make sure you don't get an offer

    3/3/15
    jj80:

    attention to detail
    and don't do anything stupid.. i have hear stories of a lot of qualified people doing stupid shit and losing offers....

    Examples?

    3/3/15

    umm...what pitchbitch said

    3/3/15

    Have a good attitude. Always be the person that's fun to talk to and hang out with, even if you are living on no sleep and rather poke a pencil in your eye than stay in the office for another day. Attention to details. Do not repeat your mistakes. Show the desire to learn as much as possible, but don't act pissed when you are staffed on seemingly trivial deals. Always be willing to "help someone out" (make your analysts'/associates' life easier).

    Think of it this way, you only need to fake it for 10 weeks. Then you can be bitter and pissed off like everyone else during FT. Good luck.

    3/3/15

    what are the offer rates anyways.... if anyone knows JPM specifically.

    3/3/15

    Hey! First of all, congratulations on your offer. As far as what to do, I will recommend the following several things.
    - Never be idle. If you have nothing to do, ask other analysts if they need help. If they don't practice your Excel shortcuts, or read something about the industry. EVERYTHING GETS NOTICED.
    - Have a really upbeat attitude. Regardless of how tired you are, just smile and be happy. Attitude is one of the most important factors. I was one of the most cheerful people and it was always noted at my evaluations.
    - Do not be overbearing. Don't start random conversations. Don't walk up to an analyst and shoot the shit - very important. You will know when they are approachable. They won't say anything to you, but they will to your supervisor and everyone will think you are a slacker.
    - Make the best out of each task. Attitude, attitude, attitude. Regardless of how trivial or menial it is, seem excitetd to be doing it.
    - Always triple check your work before you give it to an analyst and if he returns it to you, make sure you don't miss any corrections.
    basically, attitude is one of the most important qualities. Be friendly and approachable for everyone, including the other SA and always be willing to help. Finally, never slack off and always ask for more work, but not in a overbearing fashion. If there are other analysts late at night and you are about to leave, go around, say bye to everyone and ask them if they need help.

    3/3/15

    "Don't start random conversations. Don't walk up to an analyst and shoot the shit - very important. You will know when they are approachable. They won't say anything to you, but they will to your supervisor and everyone will think you are a slacker."

    I disagree. I like it when interns come over and shoot the shit with me. If I'm busy, I'll tell them that. No one will think you're a slacker (at least in my office).

    3/3/15

    Attitude. You need to have a good one or you won't get an offer.

    As pitchbith said, hunger. Show everyone you WANT (not "want," but "WANT") an offer. Work hard and ask for work whenever you are free.

    Don't make stupid, careless mistakes. You won't be forced to do rocket science, but most tasks should be manageable. If you find yourself stuck, try to understand it, however don't be afraid to ask questions! The last thing your superior would want is someone who says they know everything about what has just been asked of them and then get handed some crap.

    Congrats on your offer and good luck!

    3/3/15

    I agree ATTITUDE is KEY. I'm going to be doing a Asset Management Internship with a BB and believe me I'm going to be a happy camper even when its 2 a.m. and I have work to do.

    Ask for work if you are free, always show a good attitude, help others, talk to people if they need something and bottom line work hard.

    You do that and the offer will be yours.

    3/3/15
    JambaMan:

    I agree ATTITUDE is KEY. I'm going to be doing a Asset Management Internship with a BB and believe me I'm going to be a happy camper even when its 2 a.m. and I have work to do.

    Ask for work if you are free, always show a good attitude, help others, talk to people if they need something and bottom line work hard.

    You do that and the offer will be yours.

    Dude, why are you giving advice? You're not even at a bank yet.

    Let's leave the advice giving to the ones who've been through the process.

    And for christ sake, you don't need to tell everyone that you where and what you'll be doing this summer.

    3/3/15

    Yeah, no need to post just for the sake of mentioning where you'll be interning. Also, I doubt that you'll be work until 2am one day this summer, let alone regularly.

    • justanotherbanker
    •  3/3/15

    You may have more success here if you preface your advice with statements like "from what I've heard..." or "I would imagine that..."

    I don't think you're trying to be arrogant. Sometimes it helps to tone things down a bit and qualify your opinion.

    3/3/15

    Since when did Asset Management summers start working until 2am? If you still have work to do pass midnight, then you are either extremely slow with your work, or your boss is playing a joke on you.

    3/3/15

    I'm not trying to be arrogant by any means.

    However, is the advice that I give really that bad, or unverified?

    I mean honestly, having a good attitude, helping people, talking to others and working hard is not something that you should only do if your at an ibank, those qualities are useful for any job.

    • justanotherbanker
    •  3/3/15

    Hopefully this will help:

    You frequently write your advice from an expert's vantage point (e.g. "You do that and the offer will be yours"). How can You say that? Do you have the power to grant offers? Can you back that up with statistics? Etc...

    You abuse the imperative voice for someone in your position. (e.g. "Ask for work if you are free, always show a good attitude, help others, talk to people if they need something and bottom line work hard.")

    You don't substantiate the things you say. It helps if you support your posts with anecdotal evidence, news, statistics, links, experience, etc...

    3/3/15

    lol at 2am for Asset Management.

    3/3/15

    you used to abuse people when they point out everything everyone's said... at least you've improved on that

    3/3/15

    You don't check against other pitchbooks, but you check for spelling errors, make sure all the numbers are correct, check for formatting, make sure the two squares are the same size and position, etc.

    The associate/analyst's job is to check your work, they may not do it at 2 am, but they will check anything you hand in. You want to there to be as little errors as possible.

    3/3/15

    You check spelling, the math (example: they ask for YoY growth and you give them QoQ growth-shit like that), make sure you made all the changes in the turn, etc.

    3/3/15

    It's about who knows you, not who you know. And yes, it's how HUNGRY you are.

    3/3/15

    If you are graduating this next year, chose the NY one as a full time opportunity in NY will be better for your experience. People often start working in the the states for the first couple year of their career then get relocate to Asia region for a higer position. Also, people will think you have more of an experience relocating from NY.

    If you not graduating, then go for Asia. Either way, if you are already offered a position, there's nothing to worry about. You might learn from the turbulance.

    p.s. If the Asia is Beijing, then go to Beijing.. Olympic 2008!
    Hope that help..

    Ling~

    Ling~

    3/3/15

    I am graduating in 2009. My question is if I want to graduate in 2008, how can I tell the bank to change the offer to a full time offer instead of a summer?

    • b
    •  3/3/15

    You can't.

    3/3/15

    Come on, there must be a way. Anyone have advice?

    3/3/15

    no

    3/3/15

    Lol, dude, you want your bank to change a SA offer to a full-time offer? Lol.

    If you want to convert a SA to full-time, you do the internship, do well in it, and get an offer that way.

    This is too frickin hilarious...

    3/3/15

    i've never heard of this situation before and i'm also curious to know. but what i would do is accept the SA, work hard as hell, get a FT offer after the summer, ask for an early start date for FT. and take off a few months to vacation with the $$$$ you made as a SA! sounds like a pretty good deal to me =)

    3/3/15

    There was a kid at my bank who did a summer with us, performed well and got a FT offer to start after the end of his summer stint. Moral of the story is that you can't convert the summer to a FT offer without doing the summer first. you may be good enough for the summer, but that doesn't mean that you are good enough for full time.

    3/3/15

    the summer internship is a 10-12 week interview... the point is for them to see how you perform in the work environment and if they like you enough to hire you FT

    3/3/15

    We had a kid in a similar situation as a summer. He was graduating early and was trying to decide whether or not he wanted to pursue his masters in physics. The issue was if we started him in the next analyst class and he did't go to grad school, he'd be sitting around jobless for almost a year. He wanted us to let him join the 2007 class, effectively skipping training and join the group full time.

    We definitely gave it some thought, and had we felt he was a strong enough performer that could do without training we might have let him join the 2007 class. But while he was a decent summer analyst (I would say 50th percentile), he was not good enough to make this exception for. We gave him an offer for the 2008 full time class and left it up to him whether or not he wanted to take it or go to grad school.

    3/3/15

    I see but isn't the interviews for full time the same format as interviews for SA?

    also GameTheory, who did the kid approach to talk to about his problem and when you say "had we felt he was a strong enough performer that could...." do you mean this is based on his performance during the internship?

    3/3/15
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