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Would You Move to Singapore? Facebook's Saverin Has
 

Moneyball's picture
ER
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 11:39am
singapore would you move there.jpg

My sister moved to Singapore a few months ago for a consulting position at one of the big accounting firms after spending most of her professional life in North America. I didn't think much about Singapore at the time, and she's been trying to convince to me to pursue a career in banking there ever since. It's certainly caught my attention lately.

This article from Bloomberg is about Eduardo Saverin, Facebook co-founder, who was blasted by critics for giving up his US citizenship after moving to Singapore for supposedly avoiding (all) taxes. First of all, Saverin will pay his fair share of taxes ($365 million) upon leaving the US, although supposedly he's saved $67 million in doing so. As long as he's within the rule of law, I'm indifferent about his decision. Secondly, if he's moved to Singapore, what does that tell you about business opportunities in Singapore relative to the western nations?

Migration is about opportunity, not loyalty. For the past generation, Eastern talent has been educated in the West and stayed, rising to the top of professions from medicine to academia, and founding more than 40 percent of Silicon Valley startups. But now many of those immigrants are going home, lured by Asia’s economic growth, infrastructure spending, and improved governance. A report released Tuesday by the Partnership for a New American Economy cites the grave challenge to the U.S. economy from the aggressive efforts of Asian nations—particularly China—to lure back their expatriate students and graduates in the U.S.

Here are some quick facts about Singapore's (not exhaustive)

  • 2010 Ease of Doing Business Report‘ was #1 by WorldBank
  • Singapore’s economy is the most open to trade according to the WEF’s ‘Global Enabling Trade Report 2010-2011‘
  • The IMD ‘2010 World Competitiveness Scorecard‘ shows Singapore in the top position while Canada secured the 7th rank. Singapore is said to have toppled US from its number one position that it had held for 16 long years.

Thoughts? I am not trying to promote Singapore, but Singapore is often regarded as the unofficial financial hub of Asia. I love where I am and will probably stay here for the long haul, but I've given Singapore a lot of thought and if the opportunity presents itself, I'd probably move to work there. Wouldn't you???

Moneyball
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MonkeyWrench's picture

I was actually thinking about

O
 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 3:38pm

I was actually thinking about looking at jobs over there too. Just out of curiosity what did she say the biggest barriers/difficulties were to relocating there? i.e. culture, connections, etc.

"Who am I? I'm the guy that does his job. You must be the other guy."

ky0ung's picture

singapore definitely looks

 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 3:45pm

singapore definitely looks like a great place to work, especially for young people. Their are a ton more opportunities over there than there are in the states

neilol's picture

Interested in this as well

IB
(Orangutan, 251
 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 3:46pm

Interested in this as well

thecoldburns's picture

Personally, having low income

PE
(Baboon, 150
 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 3:47pm

Personally, having low income tax rates is quite a give and take. Housing and cars here are extremely expensive.

Take cars as an example;
A BMW M3 in North America should set you back in the region of 60,000 USD = 76,500 SGD. However, a M3 in Singapore will cost you a whooping 400,000 SGD (6x more). This is because we have a crazy import tax for all automobiles. Also, there is a piece of paper called the "Certificate of Entitlement" (COE) which you will have to purchase before you are allowed to own a car and will only last for 10 years. COE now costs 80,000 SGD (included in the 400,000).
The mot affordable new car you can get is a Perodua for ~74,000 SGD. That's a 55BHP, 1000 CC car from Malaysia.

With regards to banking & finance, I am not really in a position to say much. However, talking to alumnis and such, breaking into a FO role at a BB is extremely competitive. In Singapore, there is only one state; Singapore. I was told that BBs may only hire 1-2 FO analysts a year (sometimes none at all).

Moneyball's picture

MonkeyWrench: I was actually

ER
 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 3:57pm
MonkeyWrench:

I was actually thinking about looking at jobs over there too. Just out of curiosity what did she say the biggest barriers/difficulties were to relocating there? i.e. culture, connections, etc.

She's mostly said good things about it. She's talked about the cons and pros of the culture to me. Even though it's incredibly multicultural in Singapore with an increasing talent war among companies, she's said that locals do resent wealthy new immigrants taking their jobs etc. The good thing about Singapore is that English is their main language too, so westerners shouldn't feel much language barrier. As for connections, her own experience has been great I think. Her employers and colleagues really do want her to succeed and continues to encourage her to further pursue higher learning ie MBA, designations.

Moneyball
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Asatar's picture

Interestingly, the Finance

O
(Neanderthal, 2,025
 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 4:41pm

Interestingly, the Finance Minister of Singapore was asked recently why his country was so good for business. His answer? "Our public toilets are the cleanest"

See my other WSO blog posts>

Human's picture

I am going to be against the

PE
(King Kong, 1,891
 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 4:42pm

I am going to be against the grain and suggest that Singapore is not really the best financial hubs to move. Let's focus on why Singapore itself is on decline.

1. Geographically Less Relevant. Singapore used to be the major financial hub because a lot of ships that need to head east have to dock in Singapore. The country made a lot of money being a major shipping hub. Within the last ten years or so, the dynamic has changed. Now we have bigger ships that can go to their final destined ports: Hong Kong, Shanghai, Osaka, and etc. without transferring in Singapore. The geographical advantage is gone. Why that matter? It used to be the major source of income for the country.

2. Recent Entry into Gambling Business. Singapore has always been very firm about laws and orders. It has always been against gambling. Setting up major casinos like Macau, brings in its own set of problems. It leads to a serious of criminal activities: money laundering, frauds, gang activities. If Singapore were doing so well, why would it recently opens up for gambling business? The answer is Singapore cannot sustain itself from its primarily business (as shipping port) and must look for alternative incomes. These in recent years, it has built up massive casinos to attract business.

3. Rise of Financial Center. The rise of financial center was particularly fueled initially through revenue generated from being the shipping hubs. Singapore did had the time and resources to develop that as it realized that it is slowly becoming less relevant. Most of the major Singapore banks are also the main vehicles for money laundering for drug lords in the Golden Triangle area. With more international scrutiny, most major banks have gotten out of that business.

4. Limited Land, Higher Taxes, Expensive Apartments. Pretty self explanatory here.

Personally, I would prefer Hong Kong over Singapore. Hong Kong continues to be an important shipping port despite the macro factors which affect Singapore. Most importantly, being right next to China, makes it geographically relevant in term of being the Asian financial hub. Singapore, in my opinion, not so much.

I don't have much data to back it up. It is all based on my conversation with people who live in Singapore, Hong Kong and China. Everything is based on my observation in term of geography and economic dynamics happening around the area.

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

wallstasks's picture

What are the living costs

 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 4:44pm

What are the living costs like in Singapore? Rent, nightlife and food?

Moneyball's picture

wallstasks: What are the

ER
 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 5:39pm
wallstasks:

What are the living costs like in Singapore? Rent, nightlife and food?

Apparently, it's the 5th most expensive city to rent in the world. In Asia, it's the third most expensive. Only Tokyo and HK is ahead. I don't doubt the quality of nightlife and food. Another good thing about Singapore is that you can easily travel over the weekend to HK, Vietnam, Thailand etc. and find other nightlife/food

Moneyball
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Tommy Too-toned's picture

Singapore's a dumb country.

(Gorilla, 505
 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 6:03pm

Singapore's a dumb country. It seems impressive on paper, but after you've spent some time there you realize how shallow everything is. It's a bit like Dubai, just a series of shopping malls and chain stores, there's no authenticity, aside from a few (very few) areas.

The local culture is incredibly lame in Singapore. The only thing people ever talk about is how much you spend on stuff and how "convenient" everything is. Not trying to be racist here (I'm white), but I found Hong Kong and Tokyo to be FAR superior. I personally think Tokyo is incredible in terms of quality of life - it's clean, the nightlife is good, it's safe, the food is amazing, and the people are interesting and stylish and know what's good etc

Having said that, Singapore's great for expats in their late 30's or 40's with a few young kids...Companies typically pay for international schools, rent, cars, etc. and there's hardly any tax. A lot of people are pocketing 200k after tax and the only expenses they have are...food? pretty good deal, i must say

If you're young and single and *cool*, please aim for HK or Tokyo.

Ricqles's picture

i agree with Human's points.

O
(King Kong, 1,270
 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 6:02pm

i agree with Human's points. However, keep in mind that Singapore is probably best for Westerners. If you aren't a native Mandarin speaker with the top college degree in the US / big names on your resume and you haven't moved to HK yet, you probably will struggle to find a decent job there.

Also, the buyside guys now in China ONLY wants mainland people. Even HK guys have a trouble to break in because the culture is still slightly different and they don't speak the same Mandarin dialect.

Oh, and by the way, Asians in Asia (specifically China, HK, Taiwan, Japan and Korea) are the most racist people ever. If they even discriminate based on the location of the same country other people are coming from, they will for sure discriminate someone from other countries.

goodL1fe's picture

Honestly, if I had to spend

 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 6:45pm

Honestly, if I had to spend my 2 year analyst stint in Singapore, Hong Kong, New York, London or San Francisco I wouldn't really care. It would be great to live across the country or in a foreign city for a temporary period of time (less than 5 years). However, eventually I would like to have my career in my hometown.

Robert Clayton Dean: What is happening?
Brill: I blew up the building.
Robert Clayton Dean: Why?
Brill: Because you made a phone call.

eatmybananas's picture

^+1 anything to get in, so

IB
(Chimp, 12
 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 9:35pm

^+1 anything to get in, so long as I'd be able to return home or NYC for the rest of my career.

jec's picture

Tommy Too-toned: Singapore's

 
Points)
 on 6/22/12 at 9:46pm
Tommy Too-toned:

Singapore's a dumb country. It seems impressive on paper, but after you've spent some time there you realize how shallow everything is. It's a bit like Dubai, just a series of shopping malls and chain stores, there's no authenticity, aside from a few (very few) areas.

The local culture is incredibly lame in Singapore. The only thing people ever talk about is how much you spend on stuff and how "convenient" everything is. Not trying to be racist here (I'm white), but I found Hong Kong and Tokyo to be FAR superior. I personally think Tokyo is incredible in terms of quality of life - it's clean, the nightlife is good, it's safe, the food is amazing, and the people are interesting and stylish and know what's good etc

Having said that, Singapore's great for expats in their late 30's or 40's with a few young kids...Companies typically pay for international schools, rent, cars, etc. and there's hardly any tax. A lot of people are pocketing 200k after tax and the only expenses they have are...food? pretty good deal, i must say

If you're young and single and *cool*, please aim for HK or Tokyo.

this. spot on.

Asia_i_Banker's picture

I have lived in Singapore for

EN
(Orangutan, 257
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 7:05am

I have lived in Singapore for the past two years.

Somewhat mentioned the cost of cars... Having a car in Singapore (or Hong Kong) is totally unnecessary... the subways, taxis, busses, etc. are among the best in the world and i have never felt that i needed a car. Singapore uses taxes to guide society into a cleaner more efficient way of life. Income taxes are incredibly low (i pay less than 10%), while if you want to own a polluting car, you pay 200% tax, if you want to drive and create more traffic, you pay road tax, if you want to smoke and get drunk, you pay tax there. Even when i pay over US$10/beer, i don't have much problem with it because i am still overall paying so little tax, yet receiving absolutely best-of-the-world service from the extremely efficient government.

Someone mentioned that "Singapore is a dumb country... just a series of shopping malls... Wow, Singapore has vastly more to offer in terms of cultural diversity and depth than most other global cities. I suppose you must have just spent time in the shopping malls when you were in Singapore. Every country has its portion of shallow materialistic culture, although i would prefer Singapore's over the US type. There are so many unique and entirely different niches in Singapore - Arab street, little india, china town, raffles place, marina bay, clark quay and boat quay, macritchie reservoir and pulau ubin, sentosa, tanjong pagar, bugis.... What exactly are you looking for?

Someone mentioned that it is geographically less relevant due to (although i don't understand why you would think this) shifting maritime trade patterns.

Singapore has built itself to be the shining beacon of Southeast Asia, the hub of commercial activity in the region. It benefits in a similar way as Hong Kong has and continues to benefit from being the commercial hub for mainland China. Just as shipping is not rule the economy of Hong Kong, shipping does not rule the economy of Singapore. What has led Hong Kong and Singapore to flourish is their outstanding business environment relative to their neighbors. Singapore is in the middle of Indonesia (230m people), malaysia, vietnam, thailand, philippines, cambodia, laos, myanmar, etc. and if you are doing big business in the region, you will want to base out of Singapore in the same way as Hong Kong is an attractive base for your chinese business. As long as Indonesia and the wider SEA region grows, Singapore will continue to thrive.

I love Singapore and am frustrated by the criticism directed at it by some other westerners who often to not know what they are talking about. With that said, I am actually moving to Hong Kong in a couple of months in order to join my girlfriend up there. Hong Kong is great too, and i enjoy living there as well, however i prefer the lifestyle of Singapore (my girlfriend and i have had many discussions on whether she comes down to SG or I come up to HK...)

nauprillion's picture

Tommy Too-toned: Singapore's

ST
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 7:05am
CompBanker's picture

I've been to Singapore on

PE
(Almost Human, 8,507
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 8:44am

CompBanker

Imperialian's picture

I am a Singaporean, please

ST
(Baboon, 173
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 9:46am
the bank robber's picture

Human: I am going to be

 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 10:14am
Angus Macgyver's picture

Ahhhh, Singapore. Terribly

IB
(Gorilla, 716
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 10:26am
Tommy Too-toned's picture

Asia_i_Banker: I have lived

(Gorilla, 505
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 10:44am
gubbier's picture

Just to hijack this thread, I

AM
(Baboon, 167
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 10:37am
mb666's picture

Imperialian: I am a

VC
(Gorilla, 687
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 10:39am
Imperialian's picture

mb666: Imperialian: I am a

ST
(Baboon, 173
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 11:06am
In The Flesh's picture

Been there. Seems like a cool

HF
(Neanderthal, 2,811
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 11:37am

Head of Metal Website: www.headofmetal.com

https://twitter.com/headofmetal2012

WallStreetOasis.com's picture

Shout out to the WSO Meet up

EN
(Human, 12,073
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 12:29pm

WSO Conference 2013

Private Certified User Chat

miermier's picture

How important is the

(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 4:20pm
Jeremystory's picture

HongKong is more attractive

(Chimp, 13
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 4:42pm

Envision, create and believe in your own universe, and the universe will form around you. -- Tony Hsieh

scoobysnak's picture

I have quite a few friends

AM
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 4:52pm
Imperialian's picture

miermier: How important is

ST
(Baboon, 173
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 8:32pm
valuationGURU's picture

Hong Kong > Singapore, as a

CF
 
Points)
 on 6/23/12 at 10:33pm

See my other WSO blog posts

Moneyball's picture

hmm wow thanks for the input,

ER
 
Points)
 on 6/24/12 at 6:49pm

Moneyball
See my other WSO blog posts

miermier's picture

Imperialian: miermier: How

(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 10:49pm
Francis.ekye's picture

It is not hard to communicate

 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:41pm
Relinquis's picture

How much of the perceived

RE
(Neanderthal, 2,186
 
Points)
 on 6/26/12 at 11:40am

relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.

taugei's picture

Relinquis: How much of the

CS
(Monkey, 35
 
Points)
 on 2/7/13 at 9:45am

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