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Career Resources
It's a numbers game, similar to banking. From the outside it seems exciting; make a tonne of money on crazy hands where you out think your opponent and demonstrate your uncanny skill.
However in reality you are playing an adaptable range of hands systematically to grind out a small profit over an extended period of time. Living off poker usually means long hours doing the same thing over and over, surrounded by depresive casino types.
That being said, some people just sit down at a table and doble up without a clue of what they are going. There is no substitute for running good.
I play a good amount of poker. I used to grind online until BF now i just play live for fun every now and then. Poker is a game that can be beat but you need to have an extremely large sample size to maintain a consistent profit. What most dont realize is if you enter a single poker tournament, anybody could win. Phil Ivey could lose to some drunkass noob, especially if chip stacks are shallow.
I love poker but just if your looking to play for profit you learn to hate it over time. Staring at 6-8 tables online for 10+ hrs. everyday is exausting, and definitely not fun anymore. Not to mention the competition has gotten very very stiff. Even the lowest stake players know basic strategy and mid-level games now are leagues above what high stakes games were 5, or even 3 years ago.
I think it's fun to play every now and then, whether at a casino or at a bud's house. If you view poker as a legitimate source of income, or your entire source of income, then you should consider getting a job, or doing something else. While many people may make great amounts of money from poker, they will lose, eventually, and may lose big. Too many times, I've seen people empty out their bank accounts at a table, having anticipated that they would win.
sorry but this is false. Poker is a game that can be beat in the long term. Short term variance is high, but its not simply a game of "what goes around comes around" where those who win a lot of money will eventually lose. If your good and can beat stakes large enough you can make a living out of poker, many do but its not as easy as it used to be because online is banished and competition is much stiffer.
I stick with blackjack, where you will profit in the long run 100% guaranteed if you know what you're doing. Make a few trips to Vegas a year. Great supplemental income.
Have absolutely no idea how to play poker--or any other casino game.
Sounds like it's time to get into horse betting.
^
Uhh, where are you playing? If I'm stuck in a casino, BJ is usually the only game I'll play but it's next to impossible to find a good table, especially on the strip. The rules favor the house and there's too much damn reshuffling.
Poker is fun but I can't really bankroll the variance for either game.
Obviously not going to release the best games out there on a public forum. In general, want to look for 6-deck, 3:2 blackjack payout, 80%+ penetration( around 1 deck shaved cut out of play), double after split, and chill pit bosses (low heat). This + strict Hi-Lo card counting and knowing at what counts to vary from basic strategy will allow you to profit in the longrun. One more thing: you need to be able to bankroll the variance, as mehtal pointed out.
Riiiiiight.
we only rmbr the times we win big, and not the times we lose big - unles we lose a lot lol
I'm friends with a couple professional poker players. One guy I know made ~$250k over 4 years, and never paid any taxes on it. Which doesn't sound like anything special (is less than an IB analyst would prob make) until you realize that he only plays like 20-30 hours a week.
Having said that though, I think its a tough life. You have to be constantly disciplined, else you can lose money back real fast (in fact many great "+EV" players eventually lose discipline and go on prolonged losing streaks). And the variance is not for the weak-of-heart. The same friend doesn't save enough money for some reason, and went on like a $4,000 downswing a few months ago. He found he didn't have any money left and had to go live with his parents for a while till he could borrow some money and start winning it back. In fact, most PROFESSIONAL poker players have stories about various times they've gone broke.
Also, if you've never played before, starting now with the intention of being pro would be retarded. The competition's REALLY good compared to the past, and the expected outcome is that operate on a net loss that is a certain percent of the amount you gamble over time. And in poker, it's all about playing those expected outcomes ;)
Actually the opposite is true. People generally remember their losses and not their wins. This is why everybody thinks that they're unlucky.
However, most people play anyway because we're overconfident (i.e. the average poker player believes he can beat the average poker player ... and the rake)
lemme rephrase - we only talk abt times we win big,a nd very ararely about losses (aka traders braggin)
LIARS POKER BRO
I do IB and play pokers but never buy this saying...hehe
I feel like gambling in a casino is a sucker's game. The odds are always rigged in the houses favor... unless your doing something that can make Robert De Niro bring out the hammer.
There is no house in poker…
Jss09 knows what he is saying. Online poker is tough and even professional players who used to earn decent money there now tend to leave it. Offline poker is fun but heavy dependent on the players you are sitting with and on some other factors. Also playing live you have much more significant variance just because the distance is not even close to that you have in online.
Overall poker can be fun and good training for your mind sometimes though nowadays I wouldn't say this is a good idea to earn for a living with it. 5-7 years ago - definitely, but today - no.
A Nordic poker pro commented that the difference between online poker in 2006 and in 2010 is that in 2006 a NL50 player (cash game $0,25/$0,50 blinds) would ask why flush beats straight, whereas in 2010 he would ask how to properly balance his 4-bet range. In other words, the online poker competition has become much harder and regulation like UIGEA doesn't really make it any easier.
I used to play a decent amount of online poker but I would actually say that it resembles S&T more than IBD. Also, most people I know that plays poker successfully are more trader type people.
I think that advantage blackjack (card counting) is much closer to actual trading then poker is just because the real advantage is gained in bet sizing and having the right sized bet out at the right time, as opposed to the playing strategy which varies very little in blackjack between a pro and someone playing at a disadvantage. I find that in trading the art of it is in the risk/position management and the trade ideas are less important on a reletive basis.
jss09 is very accurate with the description. I used to grind online before I got to my current job and luckily cashed it all out before BF.
Playing 12 tables at once for hours is extremely draining. It's not like working where you can goof off or you can only be 80% in the zone. For poker you have to be 100% focused, no phone, no chat, no nothing.
I think JDimon is also correct when he says a lot of people go broke at least once. I went "broke" once which was my first $30 and that was the only time for me but I've seen way too many good players go on tilt one night and just lose so much of their account that they lose motivation. There's a serious hit to the ego when you move down from $100 stakes to $20 stakes etc.
On the bright side, I learned a lot from my experience and also developed quite a bit of emotional control as a result. I've found this to help a lot when investing because I don't get worried when my stocks go against me whereas it seems like quite a lot of the competition does.
This is also very true. Last night I took a stab at some live play after I got off work and went up 2 buy-ins and took a couple tough beatings when I was ahead to terrible players and lost 1 buy-in and felt myself going on tilt so I made myself leave. That and it was 1 AM and I have work this morning haha. The players that frequent local poker rooms are so bad, so so much worse than online, I want to build my BR up to 2-5 and make some good money there. Ive watched a few tables play and they are not much better than the 1-1 players. Even though the live competition is way worse it sucks having to play one table, pay for gas to get there, and tip the dealer. Also, rake is usually more at poker room than online.
Also used to play online in '09 and '10 and even back then the games were easier compared to today. The future of online poker is bleak with the skill increase, gto, and bots. PLO has a way to go still but more people are transitioning. I tried my hand at live poker a few times as well and the games are infinitely easier, but as mentioned there are a bunch of factors that aren't great. I also found it hard to keep my patience and focus 100% playing in such a slow environment.
I don't think I can play live. Way too boring and slow. It's also somewhat depressing some of the time to see the people there (haven't been to vegas).
"if you know what you're doing".... if you're talking about counting, that's virtually impossible in today's casinos unless you have an extremely photographic memory. Blackjack tables use 5-6 decks nowadays, constantly reshuffling. If you're talking about using basic optimal strategy, you can slice the casino's edge from 7-8% to 0.5%, but you're still losing in the long run even if you never make a mistake. A few trips to Vegas a year is hardly guaranteed supplemental income.
You have no idea what card counting even is. It has nothing to do with a photographic memory. You just count the cards as they come out and keep a running tally. Only need to remember one number (as well as do a bunch of other shit..but certainly do not memorize cards). And obviously I am talking about non-CSM games (continuous shuffler), which still exist widely.
There's no way you're an actual card counter, I'd say you're a college freshman/sophomore who's never been to a casino. I say this because you don't seem to understand the basic dynamics of counting; yes, you keep a running tally, but you do understand this becomes an incredibly strenuous task under a casino environment with ONE deck, and nearly impossible with FIVE decks, right? Fact is, profitably counting cards doesn't happen anymore. Unless, again, you have a photographic memory, which makes figuring out the count a relatively easy task.
This. Also, what people dont realize is casinos could stop card counting 100% on the spot by reshuffling decks more often. They just choose not to because they know they can make more money off people who THINK they can count cards.
@weatherman..if you have no idea how to play any other casino game i really doubt your card counting and im absolutely positive your not making a nice "supplemental income" LOL, thought processes like this are why casinos stay in business.
Not true. Most card counters don't play any other casino games, or really understand them to the extent they do 21. Why do casinos stay in business? Because their revenue from average gamblers far exceeds the money they lose to counters. Simple, boy.
Yeah I think the emotional control thing is a good point. I work in consulting now and hardly play any more poker, but between the emotional control I learned from poker, and the finance background I got from school/internships, it just pains me to talk about investing with nearly anyone in my industry. My roommate also works in consulting and I while back I was still playing some live poker and talking about it with him a lot. The net effect was that he ended up buying Zynga stock because he heard they were working on online poker connected to facebook. I asked him some simple things like what the PE ratio was that he bought at and he didn't know what that was. A couple months later the stock had dropped significantly and I had really drilled into his head the dangers of speculation. The lesson he learned from it was simply "Yeah I never should have invested in Zynga, that was so stupid." No return analysis, no consideration of whether the investment was a bad decision or a good decision that went unluckily.
He gets it better now, but for a while it was really tough to talk to him about anything like that. Was so weird too cause he's really good at his job and got promoted ahead of most of his class.
Man this feels awkward since it feels like some manlove but I totally get what you mean. It's ridiculous how results driven a lot of people in this industry are instead of process driven. People don't ask themselves whether or not they got something right or wrong or just got lucky/unlucky and point to performance. It's absolutely bonkers. Money chases performance and not process.
im going to have to disagree (slightly). The ability to describe/pitch a good process is distinctly different from the ability to make money in markets. I know many people who have what seems like a great process, but who never make money trading. Given that sample sizes are always too small, a track record isnt perfect but its still the best way to gauge ability in my opinion...ill take someone with a good long-term track record, you can have the guy that makes a good pitch book and is good at describing his process.
I'm going to have to disagree here. I think process is king. If they have bad performance, most of the time it'll be because they're process is not solid or have structural issues (2+ yrs). If you have 10 funds flipping coins, 5 will beat the market on average (gross of fees).
I mean, if you are given the choice of a historically successful manager who has grown assets or a new manager spinning off from a successful firm to go on their own who do you choose. I'd pick the latter almost every time.
i think underestimate how easy it is to describe a good process...u r judging a trader based on a sales job if you just go by his process..
I was a pre-med college student before I got into online poker. I went from 3 dollar sit and go tourneys and eventually moved on to cash games. The highest games I played were high stakes (up to 10/20 not 100/200+ aka nose bleed) but now I'm going back on the school grind to hopefully get into IB. I definitely see the similarities. Rational thought process, emotional intelligence, bankroll management etc. But while the general theme I read around here seems to emphasize the importance of intelligence, poker anyone with an average intelligence can learn to beat it with discipline and emotional control. (At least up to small stakes)
...and i would definitely take the succesful manager who is growing assets with a good track record over a newcomer who seems smart and has a good process. The guys who have survived over multiple cycles certainly are worth way way more then a smart kid with a nice pitch-book.
I think there is some truth to the idea that casinos like the game to have the aura of being "beatable"...while advantageplayer is right about how card counting works, it is also true that most people who think they have an advantage do not...this thread has a good example of that above. It is a well-known fact that when "Beat the Dealer", the first widely read text on card counting, came out in the 60s the casino take from blackjack went UP not down, because it drew more people to the game only a small amount of whom were willing to put in the work neccesary to get an advantage. Casinos will throw you out if they know you are counting, and it is much harder then it was in the old days to find a game with advantageous rules, but I do believe that they want to preserve the idea that blackjack is a game of skill which is why they dont go to constant shuffling which they could do easily.
+1
Not true. Most card counters don't play any other casino games, or really understand them to the extent they do 21. Why do casinos stay in business? Because their revenue from average gamblers far exceeds the money they lose to counters. Simple, boy.
[/quote]
I think most Card Counters would at least KNOW how to play other games which is why i made that sweeping generization. Thats besides the point though, this thread is about poker..not BJ/your username...
If anybody has any questions regarding anything related to poker please ask me or PM me...
you have no idea what your talking about...counting cards does go on profitably nowadays and absolutely does not require a photographic memory. with practice the act of keeping the count is not particularly strenuous at all...in fact it becomes second nature with time. The problem with blackjack isnt that its impossible to count, its that the variance and the pit heat make it a grind...ie it takes many hours of low expected value play to get into the "long run" and to spread bets the way you need to in order to really get a large edge attracts alot of attention from the pit.
I don't know much about blackjack so I'm not going to pretend to but I'm still baffled that blackjack is being argued as being closer to trading/investing than poker. Bet sizing, risk management, odds, etc are the basic foundations of decent poker play. Not too sure how card counting is analogous to anything.
Used to grind 6h+ 8-12 tabels during high school. Think there are similarities I think. For starters, you start of cause you like it, and in the end you are only doing it for the money cause it gets so boring and feels like proper work after a while.
.
in blackjack most of the edge is derived by having large bets out when the odds are your way, and very little (or nothing if the casino rules allow) when the shoe is unfavorable. Furthermore, decicing on how to size bets to make enough money in the long run but still keep your risk of ruin down is just as important as anything that happens "in the heat of the action" when the cards are coming out. Very little of the edge in blackjack is actually derived from playing decisions (ie card playing decisions such as ill hit here when a normal player would stand). In fact, a normal player who knows basic strategy will do the same thing as an advantage player on just about every hand (literally 99%ish). Because the edge is derived thru the process, discpline is really the most important thing as opposed to brilliance or "feel" for the game.
In my opinion, this is much more analogous to trading then poker, where one derives a larger portion of the edge from the playing decisions...ie figuring out what the other guy has, bluffing sometimes, etc. In trading, I consider the ideas (analagous to the playing strategy in blackjack or poker) to be much less important then the money management and position sizing, so i see it as more similar to blackjack. One can disagree, it is purely an opinion. But to me a problem with alot of discretionary traders i see and work with is that they spend all day talking about the market and trying to come up with brilliant ideas, and then they have not spent enough time and energy refining their risk management process. If my process is sound, and so i minimize my losses when im wrong, i will find my way into the right themes and monetize them. Not sure if this makes sense, but I see blackjack as a test of money management and discpline whereas poker is much more of a strategy game...i think blackjack is more like trading, or at least good trading done right.
I'm into ER rather than IB and I really enjoy playing poker. It has taught me a lot about my investment personality (namely risk aversion).
Spot on assessment. Maximizing positives and minimizing negatives to profit in the long run.
Any poker players? (Originally Posted: 02/25/2010)
Any serious poker players on this board? Just curious to see who here plays poker. I'm probably gonna be in Vegas in June for the world series of poker, mainly there for the cash games.
Yeah, but I friggin hate hold'em. I would much rather play draw or 7 card stud.
holdem and omaha. good luck in Sin City
You're going to the WSOP for the cash games?
i'll probably play other tournaments like the venetian deep stack or caesars mega stack, but the WSOP tournaments don't have good value, in my opinion. the cash games during the WSOP are extremely profitable, and all the major casinos like bellagio, venetian, rio, wynn, caesars, MGM, will have plenty of games running.
I'm a serious Omaha player. Best of luck.
played lots of hold'em with friends, we are all non-professionals, but it's quite fun.
Poker - Good books to read? (Originally Posted: 05/09/2010)
Who plays? Anyone know of any good books to read on the subject? Furthermore, if anyone has any good books on poker in PDF format, holla @ me with a PM!
super system is a must read.
+1...very good read.
Entire office has a tournament every 6 months
best way to get really good at poker is reading the forums at twoplustwo.com. any one of hundreds of books provide good basics but none that ive come across does more than that. 2+2 is somewhat advanced so reading the book first might not be a bad idea.
ohh and this is the single best poker article ever written without question:
http://www.bluffmagazine.com/magazine/%27G-Bucks%27-Conceptualizing-Mon…
Hold 'Em Poker for Advanced Players by David Sklansky is a very good read as well.
The e-books written by the more reputable online players are pretty good for the low-stakes games. "Easy Game" by belugawhale, "Let There Be Range" by Cole Smith, etc.
Online, they're $1000+, but you can find them elsewhere (cough torrents).
I would not recommend "Let There Be Range" to anyone just starting out.
Harrington on Holdem and Harrington and Cash Games are great intros to poker.
What is all this reading crap, just play poker?
....clearly you have only played at house games with your friend's mom baking you cookies
Magic the Gathering
Holy shit, fuck yes!
LOL
fck that shit.
poker training sites (deucescracked, bluefire, leggo, dragthebar) have video lessons and are probably the best bet, in conjunction w/ 2+2
ANY POKER FOLKS? (Originally Posted: 06/18/2012)
Any of you guys find interest in poker during free time? Because I do for sure. How often do you play? At what stakes?
1/2 as often as I go to the casino
I've played as high as 10/20 (a couple times, just to gamble really...players here are way out of my league), but mostly stick to 1/2 and 2/4. I used to play a ton online until it (more or less) got axed in the US.
any 2+2'ers?
Pokerstars
Turning Stone anyone?
I'll be there In August, 16-17 actually.
I go down to AC almost every weekend during the winter. I play a lot less during the summer when there's other things to do.
Decently successful PS guy, my GPA suffered severely as a result... never played much cash was more of a MTT guy but when I did play cash it was always 2/4 or 5/10 PLO which was always an absolutely insane game. The Sunday majors still are the only thing in my life that have ever made football a secondary priority.
played poker in HS online>made over 500 dollars in 2 weeks> got addicted>made 300> lost 400> Quit
I decided not to play online poker since I get addicted and my gpa suffers. If I want to play poker I go to the casino with 200 dollars with the intention of just having fun (expect to lose, but try to win).
What sites do you US players play on? I used Bovada before, just didn't really like the layout and consistency of MTTs.
As far as I know Carbon poker still works, and I had some money on Bodog just to play around with and it got transferred over to Bovada. I don't want to put too much time into building up a bankroll because I'm not sure if I could even get a cash out.
Back in the day I used to play on this Romanian site called Dracula holdem with a prop player deal. It was euro denominated and easily the biggest fish I'd ever seen. Then they stopped doing international wire transfers and I was out of luck but it was nice while it lasted.
Banker attitudes towards poker? (Originally Posted: 01/04/2013)
Hey guys,
I'm currently a full-time student and I play poker (a lot) at the nearby poker room. I have made enough to pay for college and etc. I have an interview with an IB firm coming up and was hoping to emphasize on some of the skills I learned from poker. General speaking, do bankers usually think positively of poker?
Success and discipline at anything is good. For IB I would emphasize the analytic and grinding element (especially if you play limit) and less the risk taking. Opposite for S&T.
More questionable if poker is not legal in your state. In that case, I would just say (at least on paper) that you play online or keep it ambiguous enough that you can make that claim.
Thanks! I will try to emphasize on those points. I just wanted to make sure that most bankers see poker in similar ways as banking.
I had direct experience with it since I have been working for a while in a poker room and I have been talking about it during some interviews. As stated by meabric, if you use this experience to talk about your discipline or your committment for things you like it can help. Also you can leverage it to talk about paying attention to details under pressure or very late at night. Just don't give them the feeling that you are addicted to it. Anyway, I have been talking about poker with at least 4 people (1 english, 1 iranian, 1 italian, 1 greek) and only the italian was against it (he believed that any poker player was addicted to it) while all the other people were very intersted in it and it gave me something to talk about which was not that common.
If you have seriously and honestly made enough playing poker to pay for college, then I'd be very impressed. Lots of people eat that shit up and plenty of banker types either play poker or pretend to really like it. Hahaha.
Thanks for all the input guys. My college is not expensive like an ivy so that probably puts it more into context (its only 6kish tuition in state).
It was a really impressive feat until you told us that!
Many of my banker friends are into poker, but IMO it is most common among traders. Played LP on the floor and regularly attended poker games / casinos and bet on various things with traders.
In a banking interview, I would mention that its one of your interests, but try not to come across as obsessed or all about poker.
I went through a similar situation. I didn't start college until 26 (just graduated, and almost 29 now), and I played poker as a living for the majority of those years. I do not play anymore but I feel that the experiences I learned grinding it out and dealing with all the different personalities makes me a better candidate than most. My problem is how to effectively explain it all without sounding like a degenerate. Any ideas? I am interviewing for real-time power trading position within the next couple of weeks. Thanks.
I've made a decent amount of money from online poker, going to mention it in my interviews as well. I think as long as you can show you're approaching it as a long-term +ev point of view, you'll be okay. Discuss the dedication and effort put in to learning the game on and off the tables and skills you've picked up along the way.
Good luck and let us know how it goes
I think talking about Poker in an interview is more suitable for S&T jobs, and this is how I get my job in a hedge fund. Poker is more about probability, mental maths, or even handling stress (you know guys always like trashtalking), and all are S&T related. I don't really see how Poker will help your interview in IBD.
Maybe focus more on the analytic skills you learnt instead, unless you know the interviewees also play Poker Good luck
Not entirely related, but check out Galen Hall - former professional poker player, currently an MBA candidate at Stanford. If it's good enough for an MBA adcomm (albeit the adcomm with the hardest hard-on for zany stories) then I'm guessing that it's good enough for an ib interview.
My experience is that most guys in IB do not have a hard on for poker the way traders do. We actually see kids write something about poker on almost every single resume nowadays and it seems pretty cheesy after awhile.
Poker really doesn't apply to the day to day IB job at all. We more look for people who are decent to be around all day and can perform the job well. So no matter how amazing you may be at poker it doesn't help the people that work around you all the time if you're the worst. I think personally I'd be more interested in a candidate with something different or fresh under interests.
I agree that it seems everyone lists poker as an interest these days, just from looking at resumes of my peers. Unless you've devoted a lot of time to the game yourself tho there's no way to actually assess a candidate's poker skill/knowledge, so it probably goes unnoticed a lot of the time.
easy enough to substitute a pot odds question for any other mental math you were going to ask anyway
Anyone able to point me in the right direction of the best way to learn to play poker seriously?
u can find a lot of information on 2+2 ( a poker forum like wso). the basics r really easy to learn but like everything u really have to learn from experience.
I'm more familiar with online poker more than live (hence the screen name). IMHO the best way to get started is to get some type of coaching and begin studying and reviewing hands, you'll be far ahead of most play. PM me and I'd be glad to provide references
I also played a lot of poker outside of school. I've spoken to people currently in ibd, S&T, and even mo/bo roles
all of them said that S&T will like the risk taking part when you talk about it in an interview, however for IBD and the rest, they recommended that you talk more about risk control as it is obviously more important for their roles.
avoid coming off as a degenerate gambler and be ready to be quizzed on strategy and some basics. My interviewers have all been fascinated and impressed with the idea of playing poker beyond the casual kitchen-game environment, (all of them were male, so avoid talking too much about it with female interviewers)
***sorry, be ready to be quizzed on strategy and basics...only happened with interviewers that have played poker before and want to see if you are legit, does not apply to all interviewers
Banking is banking and poker is poker. That's how I see it. I guess some skills sets are transferable like appetite for risk and stuff. But not a whole lot.
Raise every hand you play pre-flop 4x BB plus 1x per limper. Pocket pairs, AQ+ and high suited connectors. Don't be an idiot after the flop and you'll crush 1-2 NL.
Poker on the Street (Originally Posted: 07/13/2011)
Back in 2006, before he saved my Mets from extinction, David Einhorn was little known outside the inbred little world of Wall Street. But after finishing 18th overall and donating his $ 660K in winnings to charity, the world suddenly knew his name.
This time around he didn’t make it past the second day. He did, however, last 16 straight hours at the tables, certainly rekindling memories of his own monkey moments.
There has long been a correlation made between poker skills and the ability to trade well. Almost all of Wall Street lore includes some tale of some trader who made a killing at stud or at draw. After all, Liar’s Poker is one of the quintessential Wall Street novels and the gambling mind frame is inherently present in the world of finance.
What I would really like to know is how many of you guys play poker and how much you think it helps out in your daily jobs. Understandably, it will have more influence on traders than bankers though I know a ton of IBD guys who live for poker night.
So let’s hear some of your stories monkeys. What’s the most you’ve won at the tables? Ever win the shirt off the back of a fellow co-worker? Ever have a pit boss and his gorillas escort you to the exit?
I for my part, lack the patience for the game. I remember racking up upper five figure winnings on Party Poker some years back. I basically went all in every hand and everyone kept folding. Naturally, even internet bluffs get called and once mine did I was left with enough for some chips and a drink. Still it’s always a lot of fun and I know that many of you are really competitive about it, so I am curious to hear your experiences. Have at it, monkeys.
You ran up 10k+ pushing every hand....
i have played a lot of profitable poker. poker is easy compared to trading. finance demands a lot more. poker is just a start.
Kind of furthers my hunch, posited earlier, that you're overwhelmingly mediocre as an investor.
You pushed every hand. In this case, when you say you lack the patience, you mean you lack any skill.
I was a semi-successful lower stakes player at one point. I never won anything huge, but usually managed to grind out smaller profits.
I think I had 2 or 3 sessions net me around $1k, my largest being ~$1200.
I caught partypoker towards the end of its existence in the states. If i had caught it a few years earlier I'd be much, much richer.
Any legit sites still around or did they all get butfucked?
I played small stakes poker for a while but never managed to break through to big time kinda sad about that now. Funny thing was I found WSO by googling for a jason strassa well. He's really well-known among the poker community and apparently made it to a Wall Street firm despite a low gpa and other stuff. I guess poker and trading is closely related.
Cool story bro...
does anyone know any other poker sites besides everleaf?
WSO of Poker: twoplustwo.com
I played poker for a living for a while. Poker at lower stakes is about your hand vs. their range. At higher stakes, it's about your range(perceived range) vs. their range. Position is obviously important; understand pot odds/implied odds, G-buck, etc. are also very important. Online poker is pretty much dead. I made okay money(only 5 figures) and I know a decent amount of people were making 6 figures per year prior to the online poker ban. IMO, poker is a waste of time. If you have free time, you may as well learn advanced math, computer programming, etc. Everyone that I know who has been playing for a long time had 20+ buy in down swing, and that's going to fuck up your mind. I.E. you play 10/20NL for 100 big blinds buy ins(which is 2k), a standard swing would be 40k. That's 40k of your own money. Moreover, you may question your skills, etc. If your only income is poker, 20 buy in would be extremely significant. I had 5 figures downswings before, and I gained 50lbs because the crappy life style caused by playing poker full-time. Both popular games NLH and PLO are high variance games, and crazy down swing can happen on regular basis. I have heard huge winners lost over 50 BIs and dropped down multiple stakes. The game is also getting very tough. The training videos and twoplustwo forum have improved the average players' skills significantly. Huge winner in 2006/2007 are now marginal losing players. People who use to make low 6 figures playing live 2/5, 5/10 games are going back to school or working at jobs that pay $12 a hour. I dropped out from engineering school, and one of the reasons was because of poker. Although I made some money from it, I wish I never played the game. Many of my friends are now working for Google, IBD, PE, etc., and I am in my mid 20s going to start my first real job at Big 4. However, I think being able to handle swing from poker and understand the statistics aspect of poker may be useful for trading. If you guys want to play poker for fun, then go for it. But please don't try to spend a shit load of time and try to be "good" at it.
I played a lot of tournament poker when I was younger / College.
Tournament poker taught me patience... But I am too cheap to be a real good player... Played a couple time in NYC with Finance/Charity and it was fun to play with Partners and MDs.
Is poker useful in my job? Not sure, I think chess is more suitable to M&A and PE.
Been playing cards online since I was 17, so I have that mindset down. Now I just need to get my wall street job. Played a lot more during college and pulled in a couple grand a 2-3k a month. Nothing great, but was plenty enough at the time. Now online poker is just used to wind down after work and accompany a soothing glass of blue.
For anyone interested, Bodog is still up an running and comes with the additional perk of making baseball fun to watch. When I get bored I bet on sports. Online poker is here to stay. Soon they will legalize, regulate and tax it. Only makes sense.
Never agreed with a comment more on WSO.... minus the winning at poker in college...
I played a lot of 1-2 round of each in college. Lot of $100-$300 buy in's and sub $60 tournys... biggest win was $1100 and biggest lost was a hair under $1800... i would cash in a tourny... then lose it all on cash... happen every week it seemed... I had a job that paid in tips in college so always had cash... since it never hit my bank.. it didnt seem like real money... i played baseball in college and found one trait to be very useful in each... the ability to forget very fast. It was a fun time playing and month over month i would net net make a little... but nothing to brag about.. enough to have fun in college.
once out of college i found i didnt have the time to play much but when I did i wanted higher stakes... so I played bigger games.... I found a regular 2/5/10 omaha high lo game that i played in for a good five years on and off.... best night was $8500 and worse was $2000....
its a lot more fun now since I dont need or care if i win/lose the money.... i just want to compete and have fun. I laugh at the "kids" trying to grind out a living.. its damm tough... if i lose i say fk it.. if I win i spend it... no more building a roll for me... the guys at golfsmith love when i come by after a win.. lets just say it looks like I play for team nike
Am I the only one who has noticed that the OP claims he won over 10k by going all in on every hand??
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