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leaving IB, next steps...
 

anonymousman's picture
IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 8:41am
next.JPG

I'm confused.

I used to post on here a couple of years ago, most of what I posted was bullsh*t. The truth is I was in my final year at university, I'd just done an internship, wasn't sure how I felt about it as a prospective life, and I wanted to play banker on the internet to test the water a bit.

To cut a long story short, I ended up going into banking, and I'm now about to become a second year analyst in IBD at a BB in London. This has been a very very tough year. If I could give some genuine pros and cons of my experiences in banking;

Pros

1. The people I work with really are nice. At least 90% of the people I've worked with are down to earth, nice people. A lot of people who post on this website are borderline sociopaths, and I don't know whether it's an American thing, or if (perhaps more likely) only 10% of the people who post actually work for a bank, but people like this just don't exist in London at any major bank (I've worked with most of them on various joint mandates). They wouldn't get through the front door, because to be frank, nobody wants to work with a douche for 16+ hours a day.
2. The money is 'good' but your not going to live like a movie star, it won't go back to where it was anytime soon. ***[see the bottom for more deet] The point is that the money is 'good' but nothing more than that. I earn (post income tax) c.£3k a month - about 1k goes on rent, I spend 1k, and I save c.1k. Reality check - £1k in London doesn't go super far. I'm comfortable, no doubt, but I'm not driving around in my lambo to my South Kensington Apartment, I don't live like Brad Pitt, and it would take at least 15-20 years in IBD to get close to that dream. 15-20 years is a longggg time especially if you don't really like what you do, and your doing it every single day all day long.
3. Exit ops - I'm yet to confirm this, but undoubtedly so. Though do bear this in mind. The exit ops you get are there because your analyst skills are in demand at other companies. What this means is that you get your head down and do all this shit for 2/3 years, only to go do this exact same shit for a different company (perhaps more money, perhaps less hours, the point being that the shit never ends! Of course, if you genuinely enjoy the work of banking, then this isn't an issue at all)

Cons

1. The one and only really. The lifestyle is harder than you can imagine. I mean that. It's easy to just say you will go through weeks where you get less than 4 hours sleep a night, 6 nights running, but it is hard to describe the emotional, physical and pschologocial impact of that. And then before you know it, you do it all over again. I cannot describe how demotivating it is to make plans on a Friday night and end up still at work at 4am, tired and angry at life. This career gives no rest. It's constant. And when you get a day off, you've got your BB on you and so you don't get real distance from the banker life. I'm on vacation now (yes, you can take vacation in IB, to dispel another myth) and not a day has gone by where I haven't had some work to do.

2. I personally don't find what we do interesting at all - playing around in presentations, doing markups, arranging meetings, taking minutes, even doing modelling.

I want to go do something else.

I have no idea what yet. I have completely lost my attatchment to prestige - the people I care about respecting me don't really give a toss about what I do, truth is it's only people who are obsessed with prestige who judge people on what they do (i.e. you and a former me). Banking won't get you the girl and it won't make you cool. You'll still be the nerd, and you'll only get a girl when you become comfortable with yourself. I have not lost my attatchment to money - it's necessary to live happily. I like being able to book holidays and wear nice clothes and have a mac. But I'm not going to give up EVERYTHING for these things.

So I have considered everthing from sales&trading, to working as a quant for a casino, to consulting, to opening a jazz bar, to working in fashion or as a writer, to just going travelling and saying fuck it to the conventional life until I can figure it out (make money as I travel kind of thing). By the end of this year, bonus permitting, I'll have saved c.£20k-30k - I can live in London for over a year on that doing unpaid work exp in other fields, and I could travel for easily 2. I have absolutely no idea what to do. I just know that IBD will never make me happy; it's slow paced, boring, and takes your life in exchange for a hollow egoism, loneliness and money.

I need to get the balls to go out and live. That will either mean I end up with a few less spare bedrooms in my house, and a Ford instead of a Porsche, or I end up with a ferarri, a lambo, and 6 houses across the world. In both though I'd be happy, because I'd be living according to my own decision and choice and enjoyment, rather than sustaining my addiction to prestige and risk aversion.

Watch this space.

I realise that this post is probably pitching to the wrong audience - I just wanted to share.

***{This is the era of the political economy and that isn't going to go away in a couple of years. Credit masked inequality before. Both you and your neighbor have a flash TV, maybe one of you got it on credit, but the point is you both have the TV and all is good. Now there is a bust, and all of a sudden your up to your eyeballs in debt, less credit is available, perhaps you lose your job even, but your neighbor can still get a new TV. That doesn't feel so good does it? All of a sudden, the inequality is becoming apparent and people are (rightly or wrongly) angry at affluence - it's becoming politically popular to punish those who make money. There are countless examples of this now being done, and this is as bad for global growth as it is for the 'wealth generators' themselves, but I'm not going to debate that here.}

Tags:
JimboUSC's picture

deep

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 9:16am

deep

Edmundo Braverman's picture

This is why I could never go

ST
(Human, 14,359
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 9:34am

This is why I could never go the analyst route. Even back when I started (1992), we had nothing but pity for you guys. We all just assumed you couldn't make it in trading (I now know that's not the case for the most part). We often worked market hours and there was a direct correlation between our income and how hard we worked. If you wanted more money, you just worked harder/longer. If you were set for awhile, you could slack off. It was up to you.

st84at's picture

Hey dude, don't worry i think

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 9:59am

Hey dude, don't worry i think its perfectly fine to feel that ib is not for you. I am currently feeling the same way and am going to leave the industry in search of better work life balance.. All the best!

kalga's picture

Jump the chinese wall to

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 10:47am

Jump the chinese wall to S&T/ER or find a nice boutique that will offer you a better lifestyle but since you hate the work, thats probably a no go.

I actually work with someone who was in a similar position. Worked at CS London for 3 years as an analyst and hated it (apparently, CS London is/was a sweatshop while he was there). He ended up moving away from London and jumping to sell side research.

If your concerned about the money, are partial to living in London? Being paid street or higher in another location goes a long way.

Ben Shalom Bernanke's picture

+1 for sharing your story

AM
(King Kong, 1,423
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 1:29pm

+1 for sharing your story bro. This is the perfect audience to pitch to. Everyone who posts on here needs to hear all the views not just the GS TMT BSD chat

Walkio's picture

Thank you so much for this.

(King Kong, 1,184
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 1:57pm

Thank you so much for this. It was a really interesting read. I don't think most students really appreciate the crap they're getting themselves into.

firefighter's picture

thanks for the read, made me

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 2:10pm

thanks for the read, made me think for a bit

but at the end of the day most jobs suck in general. look at where your college friends are going into?

consulting (travel is brutal)
account/audit (tedious)
med school (brutal for at least 8 to 12 years)
law school (brutal) followed up corporate law (brutal)
PhD (99% of work is boring and degrading. groundbreaking discoveries are not the norm)
engineering (tedious math and calculations)
teaching (stressful as balls. could be rewarding though)
prof athlete (brutal practices 99.9% of the time, scoring a touchdown in front of people .01% of the time)
prof actor/actress (tedious memorization and rehearsals 99.9% of the time, on screen .01%)

etc etc etc

the reason you get paid for jobs is because they generally suck. if they were enjoyable you would do them for free with a smile or even pay to do them. think about how many people are stuck at low paying dead end jobs. while IB is certainly a tough career, everyone is fighting a tough fight and everyone hates work

Solidarity's picture

you were doing well into you

EN
(King Kong, 1,280
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 2:14pm

you were doing well into you got to this part

firefighter:

teaching (stressful as balls. could be rewarding though)
prof athlete (brutal practices 99.9% of the time, scoring a touchdown in front of people .01% of the time)
prof actor/actress (tedious memorization and rehearsals 99.9% of the time, on screen .01%)

MrV's picture

Thanks for the insight. I

(Baboon, 142
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 2:21pm

Thanks for the insight. I like how you have 30k saved up and can literally just take a vacation for a few months to just chill/seek out your goals in life if you really wanted to.

Banking.

firefighter's picture

Solidarity wrote: you were

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 2:24pm
Solidarity:

you were doing well into you got to this part

firefighter:

teaching (stressful as balls. could be rewarding though)
prof athlete (brutal practices 99.9% of the time, scoring a touchdown in front of people .01% of the time)
prof actor/actress (tedious memorization and rehearsals 99.9% of the time, on screen .01%)

how is that not true? i'm not saying it's not rewarding, just that most of the time you're not gonna be doing glamorous shit. if movies were true all analysts would be closing multibilliondollar deals by shaking hands with and charming fortune 500 CEOs

Status_Quo's picture

firefighter

 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 8:33pm
firefighter:
Solidarity:

you were doing well into you got to this part

firefighter:

teaching (stressful as balls. could be rewarding though)
prof athlete (brutal practices 99.9% of the time, scoring a touchdown in front of people .01% of the time)
prof actor/actress (tedious memorization and rehearsals 99.9% of the time, on screen .01%)

how is that not true? i'm not saying it's not rewarding, just that most of the time you're not gonna be doing glamorous shit. if movies were true all analysts would be closing multibilliondollar deals by shaking hands with and charming fortune 500 CEOs

The latter two professions aren't feasible for the OP anyway, also 100% - 99.9% = 0.1% lol

Chicago85's picture

firefighter wrote: ..the

IA
(Baboon, 163
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 3:14pm
firefighter:

..the reason you get paid for jobs is because they generally suck. if they were enjoyable you would do them for free with a smile or even pay to do them...

Really? You must be kidding, either that or you must be a trust fund baby if this is your view on why and how people get paid.

There are also different levels of enjoyment, I do not think for most people it is either that they LOVE or HATE their job. Unless you own your own business and even then, some days are simply better than others and you do what you have to do to hopefully one day be able to live off your portfolio and pursue interests that genuinely interest you.

GekkotheGreat's picture

One of the best posts I have

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 3:35pm

One of the best posts I have seen in awhile.

At the end of the day, it's all about finding something that you enjoy. Life is short.

Gambler Daily

Lord Blankfein's picture

So you couldn't cut the

(Baboon, 149
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 3:41pm

So you couldn't cut the mustard?

I

gopadub's picture

Wow this is amazing man, this

(Baboon, 169
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 3:44pm

Wow this is amazing man, this makes sense (wanting to raise a family and IBD doesn't give time for that) isn't ER high paying as well? like associates make 250k with bonus or am I high? I know the lifestyle is better or AM. I know a guy who worked at BAML analyst, then went to a small PE firm in NYC for 2 years then went for MBA and now is wanting to start a small PE in columbus ohio (He is at OSU for MBA) (But thats a lot of work too in the first 5 years.)
I guess you could try Corp Dev? Sorry if I was no help.

ALC8's picture

I think the best jobs are:

 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 3:46pm
bfin's picture

ALC8 wrote: I think the best

CF
(Neanderthal, 2,772
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 3:48pm

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

Solidarity's picture

Exits from long-term finance

EN
(King Kong, 1,280
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 3:50pm
cplpayne's picture

Deleted

IB
(Gorilla, 518
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 7:13pm

"One should recognize reality even when one doesn't like it, indeed, especially when one doesn't like it." - Charlie Munger

turtles's picture

Nice to get some unbiased

IB
(Neanderthal, 2,938
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 3:57pm

Just saying...

gopadub's picture

Also, if you can handle the

(Baboon, 169
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 4:20pm
Devils Advocate's picture

Great post...not quite

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 4:31pm

Interview Guides
WSO Resume Review

Laizor's picture

Great post. Thanks for

 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 4:35pm
awm55's picture

Indeed once again S&T all the

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 5:41pm
turtles's picture

If you want money but you

IB
(Neanderthal, 2,938
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 5:56pm

Just saying...

apan's picture

As a fellow analyst I know

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 6:10pm
jason bourne's picture

i'm starting IB at a BB in

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 6:53pm
CARRY's picture

hey guys, interesting

 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 6:50pm
leveredarb's picture

awm55 wrote: Indeed once

(King Kong, 1,231
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 7:18pm
awm55's picture

jason bourne wrote: i'm

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 7:31pm
jason bourne's picture

awm55 wrote: jason bourne

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 7:46pm
awm55's picture

jason bourne wrote: awm55

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 8:32pm
awm55's picture

leveredarb wrote: awm55

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 8:38pm
firefighter's picture

Trading hours arent that

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 8:44pm
awm55's picture

firefighter wrote: Trading

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 8:47pm
gopadub's picture

What is the associate pay

(Baboon, 169
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 8:53pm
JSnoopy93's picture

Good post man. It really is

(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 9:05pm
LeveragedFiend's picture

I like your post anonymous,

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/27/11 at 9:20pm

It’s no mystery that ass has always been tits’ greatest enemy... It’s almost like a Muslim-Jewish thing, but with tits and ass.

rickyross's picture

I've never seen that many SBs

IB
(Gorilla, 542
 
Points)
 on 4/28/11 at 2:32am

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.

Edmundo Braverman's picture

No matter how bad banking

ST
(Human, 14,359
 
Points)
 on 4/28/11 at 8:16am

juniormistmaker's picture

Great post man and as an

IB
(Baboon, 127
 
Points)
 on 4/28/11 at 12:36pm
Buster McGillicudy's picture

I just made the unthinkable

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/28/11 at 1:15pm
smabs's picture

Finish your two years and go

(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 4/28/11 at 9:55pm
Bitch About Banking's picture

For some reason my old

(Chimp, 11
 
Points)
 on 5/1/11 at 2:55am
Edmundo Braverman's picture

Bitch about Banking, +1 to

ST
(Human, 14,359
 
Points)
 on 5/1/11 at 4:55am

absinthe's picture

CARRY wrote: hey

ST
(Orangutan, 347
 
Points)
 on 5/1/11 at 7:38am
Walkerr's picture

Interesting post OP. I guess

IB
(Gorilla, 569
 
Points)
 on 5/1/11 at 4:15pm
karypto's picture

I'm still going into banking.

EN
 
Points)
 on 5/3/11 at 5:19pm
West Coast rainmaker's picture

Great post man. Makes you

ER
(Neanderthal, 2,072
 
Points)
 on 5/3/11 at 6:39pm
Binary_Bankster's picture

01100010011101010110110101110

O
(Monkey, 35
 
Points)
 on 3/18/12 at 6:55pm

I'm gonna get that bish some binary
Bishes love binary
---------
Kind Regards,

Bin_Ban

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