Declining an offer: does it kill all future opps?

If i was to decline an offer with a BB, would that kill all my future chances of ever working there in the future, would they look negatively towards me because of my initial rejection.

Basically, received an offer w/ a BB in New York, currently living in Chicago, due to family reasons i cant leave Chicago just yet.
If in two years i were to apply again, would they just disregard my application.

Thanks for all your help guys, and should i explain the reason of why i cant accept.

The firm is GS.

 

Not at my shop, but I'm not at GS. No idea whether they would blacklist you, but it strikes me as fundamentally irrational and self-defeating if they did.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 

I don't think so, particularly if you made clear the reason (i.e. you aren't going to a competitor for more "prestige" or a couple more bucks). If they were not understanding and decided to hold a grudge against you for forces outside of your control, would those be people you want to work for one day? Keep in touch with your contacts and hopefully something will work out once your situation changes.

I haven't been in this situation (offers I've turned down have generally not been at companies where I'd necessarily plan to work later), but I've been in the opposite situation a few times. Basically, I've gotten along well with a team/group, but they haven't been able to hire due to timing, circumstances, etc. In my opinion, the industry is too small to hold grudges, so doing so would be self-defeating, as SSits said. "You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad." I won't say there aren't petty people in this industry, but those probably aren't the people with whom you want to align yourself.

 

You will have burned bridges with that firm. If you leave to work somewhere else in industry, you're sending a loud and clear message; I had the chance to work here but chose to go somewhere else. For all they know, if you show up a year later with hat in hand asking to work there full-time, it just means you either didn't get a return offer at the new shop or didn't know yourself well enough to be content at the BB. Either way, they won't want to hire you back.

The only way this could work is if you went out of industry, i.e. you went to try McKinsey or Google or something. Even then, you'd need to talk about it beforehand with people in your group and with HR.

I think you need to do some soul-searching and figure out if you want to work at a BB or boutique. Think about the differences (platform, global reach, companionship within analyst class, work/life balance, etc.) and decide which experience you'd prefer for two years after school.

Long story short: you can't turn down a return offer at a firm and expect it to go over well, regardless of the reason you turned it down.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

Having gone through this, I completely agree with APAE. Obviously it depends by the people and how flexible they are and if they had this type of issue in the past. In my case, I dealt with people that spend their career ONLY with that firm, were amazed by it and thought it was the best bank in the world and the best job in history. Once I dropped my offer to join another lower ranked firm they just thought i had gone out of my mind...

I'm grateful that I have two middle fingers, I only wish I had more.
 

Thanks for the insight, APAE and cruel3a -- I figured that would be the answer. I suppose I'll have to either dump any grass-is-greener mentality and be happy with the BB, or take a pretty massive risk on the boutique and hope it pays off.

 

As long as you are professional when you decline their offer you should be eligible for future opportunities. Going through all the motions with them only to decline their offer in the end may impact your chances of future offers but shouldn't outright blacklist you. Offers are declined all the time, you can only work for one company and most apply to many. However, nobody likes being second place.

 

All depends on how you approach it. They gave you an offer, so they like you. If you turn them down politely, they will make note and you'll walk away clean. If you make a big deal over it, you may find yourself disadvantaged in the future.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

Also, did they ask you what you'll do if they extend you an offer? The firms that really care about whether people turn them down or not will usually ask first.

In any case, I'll second Comp Banker. Just be nice and apologetic and say it seems like they have a really nice team and it would have been a great fit, but you will be working elsewhere this summer. If you can tell a self-deprecating joke like "I hope that in two years when I'm older and wiser and, you guys might be willing to take me back for another round of interviews", that might make things go even smoother and leave the door a little wider open in the future if you do it right.

 

no - i turned down an offer 2 years ago b/c the position was not the fit for me then but it is for me a few years later and i jumped ship perfectly fine

Also as a 1st year for example you have less leverage but with some experience you can leverage that into a bigger payday at a place you wouldn't have thought about before

fact is - people's priorities / situations change

 

1) no 2) yes apply again 3) masters after research? Just do 2) and if that fails think about it 4) no

bottom line: if you reject an offer, they're not going to look favorably upon you as you come back asking for the job opp.

 

On a similar note, how hard is it to get into trading at a reputable firm after a few years of other work experience, especially economic research? (Given a 3.8+ GPA at a good school in math and econ and good SAT scores?) Do college academic performance/test scores still matter?

 

you aren't "blacklisted" from the firm (this will only happen generally if you reneg), but you have a very, very, VERY low chance of getting an offer from them, even if they do interview you, because you turned them down in the past

.
 

BB interview process is more structured then ppl like to admit. Unless you are Jamie Dimon's nephew, you will have to go thru the same steps as everyone else meaning you will cross paths with HR at some point. This is where technology does not work to your benefit. HR keep records. If you rejected a job, they will know about it sooner or later. It will affect decisions to move your candidacy ahead.

 

If you're talking about stuff like the UBS Sophomore Symposium/Barclays Boot Camp/Credit Suisse BA Explorer/etc., don't sweat it. Those are 'externships' and not very serious at all. Talk to the recruiter, feed them some line about how much you would've enjoyed the opportunity to attend, how eager you were to attend when you were accepted, and how disappointed you were when x-event came up that forced you to miss the firm's event.

It isn't a dealbreaker, and as long as you stay on top of the recruiter and maintain a professional relationship, they'll remember you as the kid who stayed in touch. That should help you with interviews down the road.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

I can't do banking because of working hours, and compensation really sucks nowadays (with high tax rates and stock compensation) so its not worth it at all. I also did banking (not BB though) before so 0 learning curve, My plan was to move to PE post MBA but couldn't make the switch.

Consulting is pretty attractive to me because the working hours are less, usually no weekend work, its in a tax-free location which makes salary really attractive, and overall I think its a better personality fit for me (especially for the "creativity" part).

Long term the plan is either continue Pe or stay in consulting, or maybe work in senior management of a corporate.

 

I don't know whether the firm will make you a second offer but I am generally wondering whether your wife will be able to cope with the volatility that comes with your job at MBB, and the stuff that follows afterwards.

 

post MBA associate, late 20s

BB compensation does suck given the tax rate (the BBM offer is in a low tax region, which on a net basis is over a 100% higher), and bonus is largely paid in stock and deferred, which really really sucks even more. Not to mention the cost of living which is ridiculous. making some quick calculations, the BBM job is actually financially more attractive.

Of course you make more money in a BB in a good year or if you eventually make it to VP (after a lot of pain, and if you dont get fired), but i just cannot take this job - its a combination of the super long hours (its been over 100/week all the time, destroyed christmas day, will be a new year eve in the office, etc.), the pay that is not good as before, and the fact that having worked in PE last summer, I have an absolutely 0 learning curve in this job. And I speak unusual languages that i cannot use in my current job, which i will never ever use as a banker.

Aren't hours better at BBM? NEver heard of people working weekends regularly... I dont mind working 9am to 10pm or 11pm everyday if i can get some time off on weekends and get my Christmas break and undisturbed holidays.

 

What I don't get is that you had an offer from both, you knew the salary and location of both, knew the cost of living and tax implications of both, but decided to take the BB (for reasons only you can know) and now because your wife doesn't like the area you want to switch. I get that it can be difficult to perceive what the lifestyle is actually going to be like after accepting the offer (I.e whether you will enjoy the job) but as a post-MBA candidate you have put yourself in an awful situation... If you jump to consulting, assuming MBB will let you come crawling back after rejecting the offer, then the BB is a bridge burned. As for the PE aspirations, it sounds likr you still don't know what you want or you want everything, and either way you aren't going to be able to make the career progression without making sacrifices, aka your wife might have to learn to love the location and you will need to suck it up and deal with the hours. The lifestyle definitely is going to continue to suck into the foreseeable future, that isn't going to change. What you need to ask yourself is "Is my family the immediate and pressing priority right... Or is it your career?" There's no right or wrong answer... You have to decide but if you get to the next position and your wife decides that she needs to live abroad, or that she wants to take a position elsewhere then a pattern starts to develop and you are the only one who will know where the line needs to be drawn.

Best of luck resolving this, though. I have enough difficulty making decisions with just myself in mind. I know it grows exponentially when you have to taker her wants into consideration as well.

 

Since you're a post-MBA associate I think making the switch back to BBM makes a lot of sense given what you said. Can't hurt to reach out to them and see what they say.

I understand what you're going through. I interned in IB last summer (MBA intern) and switched to BBM due to the lifestyle, intellectual challenge and because the exit opportunities from post-MBA in IB are far worse than in pre-MBA in IB. Although if you are at a truly elite BB like GS or MS it might be worth sticking it out.

 

yeah it is one of the elite BB. I know lifestyle sucks in banking, but I didnt expect to work every single weekday and work until 2 or 3 am on a consistent basis, and have to cancel most of the holidays... As for the learning experience, i dont see much of a difference between my previous second tier bank employer except that i'm working on 4 live deals at a time instead of 1 or 2. I genuinely feel I might just drop dead on the floor at some point, its that bad.

I really wanted the BBM offer but as I said the wife had put a veto, but know managed to convince her to reconsider... Dont mind sacrifice for career progression but killing myself everyday is not worth it... and what's career progression in banking? Even you make it to VP (in three years!), your hours will still suck. Less time in the office maybe but more time on the blackberry or travelling.

 

OK, well that's good news (re: elite IB). They liked you before, they will like the brand name of your current employer, so you shouldn't have too much trouble. Also, BBM are hiring like crazy now. I would reach our to one of your senior contacts before and see what they think. You might even be able to swing the city of your wife's choice--especially if it's NYC, where you would be a good fit given the FIG orientation of BBM there. You could also consider reaching out to the other BBM's although you'd surely have to go through the whole interview process again.

The big question I'd ask is whether you're sure you want to do consulting, as opposed to something else in financial services that is less menial and has a better work-life balance, and better short- and long-term earning potential than consulting.

The important thing is that you should get out of IB. You're right--it won't get better, although the money will. Don't waste your life for a little bit of money.

 

tough choice! if i was in your position i'd probably try to define a few criteria that are important to your life (family, job satisfaction, money,...), weigh and rate them, then see where you get the highest value! you may also want to look at rotational opportunities at your bank. there's lots of other interesting stuff with better hours (corp. development, wealth management,...) hope that helps

 

yeah, if she puts a veto, she should do the work. does she at least clean the house and cook you late night meals?

"... then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."
 

I was all about M&A until I realized that I could have a job that would fit me better. A lot of my friends are in M&A, some like it and some do not. Do you really want to be doing something you do not like just for a bit of extra cash? If you were telling me that you are reconsidering M&A to become an actor, I might have some reserve on that; sure following your passion is great, but you need money to a certain extent. Here you will be doing a job that you like with a decent salary, so why not? I will try to sound smart and pull something from econ 101: Utility maximazation: M&A : - Not a big fan of your job + Good money - Unhapiness Econ consulting : + big fan of your job + Decent money + Happiness So really the difference between Good money and Decent money needs to be REALLY big for you to take on the M&A job; so how much importance do you really put in money is your answer right there.

Oh, and wether you can take the offer back or not, I have no clue, but if you refused the offer with a lot of grace; it won't cost you anything to try and get it back, and if they want you they will take you.

For a PhD in Econ: Stricly speaking about my school, you can do a masters there (you will have NO problems getting in from IB) and then move on to the PhD in econ. I didn't go to the PhD info session so I wouldn't know how to get straight in it, but your best bet is to contact the University you are interested in and ask them directly the question.


Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is. - My ex girlfriend

 

In honest truth, your ability to redeem that economic consulting opportunity depends on how you rejected the offer. Did you give a specific reason, e.g. the IB opportunity? In any event, go for it. Call the company and fight for the opportunity, especially considering you're having cold feet about IB.

Since you think you might want to do a PhD program in economics, it's likely that the economic consulting firm would sponsor you into a master's program. So I think from a long-term career perspective, I'd agree with you that it appears to be the better decision. Ofcourse any opportunity becomes what you make of it, perhaps economic consulting WOULD be more intellectually stimulating for you.

I'm saying this from the perspective that very few IB analysts stay in IB long enough to become lifelong career bankers. Most of the time, they do their 1 or 2 years, and bolt, never looking back. The conversation on the forum is nauseatingly about supposed "exit opps". But let me tell you, at such a young age, most kids on the forum don't know any better so they think IB is the "End All, Be All" in life and that PE, VC or HF jobs are all guaranteed. This is a myth.

So good for you that you seem to have done a pretty good self-assessment. It's good that you've realized your long-term career goals don't necessarily align with IB. Much better to get out now vs. stepping into what may be a miserable analyst experience for the next two years.

 

resident econ consulting troll, putting in an appearance.

Re: going to econ consulting after IB, are you sure you'd want to do that? 2 years in IB + 2 years in consulting + 5-6 year PhD? That's a long road ahead.

I went through a similar thing, with choosing between Strat / Econ consulting - I talked to a lot of people, and the consensus was that doing strategy work would cause the math/logic skills to atrophy a little bit and make it a little bit more difficult when I eventually did get back into school. I'm not sure that admissions will be negatively impacted by IB work, so if you want to leave your options open and make some cash, that would still work.

 

Thanks for the great advice. Like many people my age, I'm pretty unsure about what I want to be doing in 10-15 years. At this point, it seems like a PhD in economics is the best fit, but I am not totally against trying out Wall Street. I'd definitely like to keep my options open.

If I did two years of IB and applied for econ consulting, what position would I enter as? Given that I wouldn't have econometrics and programming experience (outside of school experience), what further responsibilities would I have when compared to a first-year analyst? Also, do you know how hard it would be to land the job?

 

I'm pretty sure you'd enter as a first-year analyst.

No idea how hard it is to land the job as a jr. lateral - but I've never seen it happen.

I'm not sure how you feel about this, but the vast majority of econ consulting firms also recruit off-cycle. If you aren't able to get the offer back, then you could consider sending out some apps in the spring to see if you get any bites.

 

Last summer, I turned down an offer from BAML to do an Internship at Ernst & Young. Granted, it wasn't a FO position, it was IT but I actually had my HR contact at BAML call me earlier this year asking me if I was getting ready to enter into a FT position and whether or not I was still interested in working there, saying she'd be able to fast track me through the application process if I was interested.

It may be different in FO where they may feel more strongly about someone turning down an offer, but I'm thinking it won't matter unless you turned them down in a particularly rude or offensive way. Probably would help if you could get in touch with your contact the first time around.

 

Hello

No its not like that you cant apply to the already applied firms . Companies do not hold any grudges towards the turn down candidates its just you were not qualified for the particular job requirement . You can apply again to the same firms. There may be an opening in the future you are qualified for.

All the luck hope this Helps Thanks http://www.fintel.us/

 

If you're not reneging on an offer, you're not going to get burned.

  1. email should suffice. However, if you feel there are the few that you thought made an effort to try to get you, phone call would be nice.

  2. send the decline offer to whomever needs to know (hr, recruiter, etc), not everyone that you talked. Usually you get an offer letter, send it back to the return address with a decline notice. If you want to keep in contact with some of the people, good gesture to let them know too.

  3. if you're going to decline it, do it as soon as you can. Obviously you're not interested in working for them, what do you care about their feelings. Plus, it gives the peeps below you a chance.

  4. In my opinion, you should decline them. If you heard the story of Jeffrey Chiang, you would know stuff goes around. Recruiters from one bank knows people from other banks. If you accept the offer and go on the interviews, it might raise an alarm. It happened to me. I accepted an offer, and I had previously applied to a different bank, and I didn't think to withdraw the application. The recruiter contacted me for an explanation. Maybe it's 1 in a million that the recruiter found out, who knows.

  5. If you made a very good impression on some of the people at the firms that you're declining, it would be good to let them know, and that maybe you could work with them in the future.

 

bump.

Incredibly grateful to be in the same boat. Was thinking of doing hand written notes to a few of the people that I really connected with since finance is a small world. That said, planning on emailing the recruiter for all the firms that gave me me offers (i.e. not emailing every person I met with).

I'd like to add two more questions:

  1. Got the IBD offer I wanted friday night, had a 8am securities superday Sat morning WITH THE SAME FIRM. Obviously wasn't going to cancel. I was up front and told them about the offer. When they asked me why securities since my last summer experience was banking, I sold them my reason. At the end of the superday, the head hr person pulled me aside and said "I know you have an offer from OUR FIRM in IBD... where does that leave you with securities?" To which I answered "I want securities." There is still another "round" left with securities, although I have been told that it is merely to have managers pick you for a particular desk. Finally to my question... I am almost certain I am taking IBD... what is the best way to exit the situation? Email now, less than 24 hours after I said "I want securities," or wait since I potentially may not even get the offer? I don't want to screw anyone out of getting an offer, but I am guessing if I say no to the "final" round, I will be ok. Complication: It is the same firm, albeit opposite sides of the world, so I don't want to doo-doo where I eat. Yes, i just said doo-doo.

  2. What ON EARTH do you do when you tell a recruiter you are declining an offer and they ask you "may I ask whose offer you accepted?" Throughout the actual interviews, when they asked who has given me offers I just frankly told them exact names. But the "where are you going question" feels off. Would it be reasonable to say "another BB firm," or should I just ignore the question?

Thanks all! Your guidance has been instrumental in me landing my dream SA job. I will be sure to pay it forward.

 

don't think it matters unless you handled it poorly, it would probably give you an edge over other candidates who have never interviewed before because they already know you're good enough to make the cut at least for s&t two of the places i turned down offers from for the summer after junior year contacted me during the summer about interviewing for FT situation might be slightly different for you though

 

You make a good point about the value of each, depending on long term vs short term in banking. I did not consider that.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 

How much do you like your old group?

Are they paying you market?

I'm shocked nobody has suggested shopping the offer back to your old employer first. Here is my suggestion for the conversation:

"I'd really like to stay with you guys, I don't want to bankrupt you, but I would like to earn closer to market, which _____ defines as $X."

"You guys don't need to match it, but I'm pretty sure this is where the market is. Are you willing to come within 15% of it? "

If you're a manager, and you're paying everyone less than the market rate for their services, that's helpful information. And a reasonable manager, or a smart manager won't take it personally.

But you have to be prepared to leave if you do this and they say no.

If you are agnostic about $$ at your current firm or $$$$ elsewhere, this is an opportunity to get $$$ at your current firm and you have nothing to lose.

 

I've never worked at a big bank, but I'm pretty sure that the same people that consider candidates for one role don't necessarily look at candidates for another role in a totally different group. Regardless I personally wouldn't recommend switching to a "worse" group - brand name is way overrated when it comes to overall career trajectory and a slight pay bump just isn't worth the hit in skill set potential. Pay is important but only if it's a significant difference, because your "human capital" is going to be more impacted by your changing skill set versus a slight increase in near-term pay. Lastly you can't base your decision on what some random person may or may not ask at a future time, and I highly doubt that simply declining an offer from one group at an employer bans you from being considered at that employer entirely. Case in point, I've seen many folks leave an employer then come back to that same employer a few years later, both to the same group and to different groups.

 

Animi doloribus cupiditate nesciunt ea nobis placeat. Maxime facere voluptas dolores maxime beatae expedita sed. Incidunt est eos debitis exercitationem. Quia recusandae sequi harum itaque molestiae eligendi. Et molestiae beatae minus accusamus.

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."
 

Voluptatum dignissimos nesciunt reiciendis enim ut. Distinctio sed dolore iusto dolorum. Optio assumenda laudantium id aut ad aspernatur magni. Beatae exercitationem sed minus et aut vero.

Veniam exercitationem molestiae vel voluptas sint delectus. Non quod dolores asperiores sed consequatur est sed ut. Quibusdam voluptatem aliquid consectetur vitae laborum aut. Sed voluptatum quibusdam voluptas quasi aut cupiditate id sit. Maxime voluptatem commodi totam non. Consequuntur facere eos neque iure id exercitationem quo. Fugiat ad animi aut beatae.

Adipisci accusantium dolores hic perferendis. Sed voluptates laborum officiis. Consequatur eveniet labore corporis.

Est rem exercitationem sed sint velit quos. Explicabo molestiae est at et ipsum voluptas consequatur. Possimus in consequuntur expedita.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
bolo up's picture
bolo up
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”