College Rankings, Do They Really Matter?
“All hail the sacred written word on thy ranking of colleges and universities by thy great and all-knowing U.S News & World Report! Exalted are they who decree those worthy institutions of thy greatest prospective students this land has to offer and cast mere mortals for those who failed miserably to even make thy bottom fifth.”
Okay, so I just made this up but doesn’t this description of the U.S News & World Report on college rankings sound pious, ridiculous, and inaccurate? Well, according to Lynn O’Shaughnessy they actually are all three and I’m going to let you on a dirty little secret…
Rankings are relatively meaningless.”
She reports in Wealth Management that there are three factors in determining college ranking:
• Institutional prestige and wealth which most people associate with a Harvard, Yale, or Princeton as their hoi poloi stereotypes have perpetuated over generations
• “Image is everything” and is influenced by press veneration and branding from prior rankings as the higher visibility equates to greater frequency in peer-reviewed surveys
• Even more weight is given to an institution’s size of endowments and alma mater donations as private monies dominate over public institutions since only UC Berkeley, UCLA, and the University of Virginia rank in the top fourth
1. The report doesn’t focus on the value of education, which is counter-intuitive because this is fundamental to finance. Think, Nike sneakers as compared to Walmart's Starter. They both perform the same function but you pay for the brand and image of Nike. Ideally, you would want to get the best education for the least cost yet these rankings focus on premium colleges which should deliver greater tangible benefits otherwise your money is inefficiently spent for a relatively comparative and expensive education.
Do you think the rankings reflect the comparative value of college education?
2. Colleges are peer-reviewed thrice a year, called reputational scoring but there’s a problem. What would the administrators from Cornell know about Oglethorpe University? Oglethorpe may very well know Cornell as its competitor but Cornell may have no idea about where they are even located let alone rank it due to information asymmetry.
Are there better criteria and methods or do the surveys make for accurate data?
3. Money greatly influences ranking and just like WS, the wealthy and elite colleges perpetuate themselves.* Have you ever wondered why the rankings stay relatively the same year after year? Either those institutions are fantastic fund and campaign managers, as I’m sure some of them are, or they could be disproportionately benefiting from the faulty ranking methodology.
Is money from elite colleges giving them a self-sustaining and biased advantage?
* Let it be known that I have no issue with WS or wealth perpetuation and I used it solely as an opinionated analogy.
I think among recruiters and grad schools the rankings don't mean too much since they know that it's highly volatile with the exception of the top 5 (harvard/yale/princeton/stanford/mit). The colleges themselves do care a lot about it since it affects public percetion and application numbers.
I think the top 5 I mentioned will always be the best schools in the country, and that's not going to change. The schools below them are more debatable: penn, columbia, duke, dartmouth, uchicago, brown, cornell.
You just butthurt yours got kicked out of top 25.
Props for use of the word "butthurt"
Whitehat, I'm a strong and independent woman and there's nothing that you can say that'll bring me down.
To boost what LastCall is saying, take a look at the book "Harvard Envy." It talks about how schools obsess over rankings and tend to mis-allocate resources to things that can make them "look better," while the schools at the very top always have been, and always will be the top schools. It's available for free on the Amazon marketplace and can be read in an afternoon.
http://www.amazon.com/Harvard-Envy-Colleges-Overshoot-ebook/dp/B005O3AM…
Obviously they are legit. I mean when I went to school, my university's ranking dropped from #8 to #10. The year after I left it went from #10 to #8. How could they not be legit if they measured my influence on the academic human capital pool so effectively?
Was it because your university tried to falsely convict members of your lax team based on no evidence whatsoever based on the fact that they were white and the accuser was black, and your retarded liberal professors wrote a letter in support of this impostor? Maybe your ranking should be lower.
Rankings don't mean shit but also it's a fact that HYPS give great financial aid (I got by far the best aid package from the one I go to).
Also maybe Oglethrope University has better teaching than Cornell but I think you would find more smart / well-connected people at an ivy than at oglethrope lol.
But yeah ofc brandname is nothing compared to personal character/willpower. Yet it doesn't hurt to go to a "prestigious" school.
HYPS will always be on top of the rankings. It has everything to do with money. They have more access to resources, and they can pay the best professors in the country. That attracts the smartest people in the country, who then become the richest and most powerful people in the country. They will continue to donate millions to the endowment, and go out of their way to help other alumni.
So, basically money is everything. Just go look at the difference between a Teir 2-3 state school vs a Tier 1 state school. Kids who attend a Tier 2-3 school are at a huge disadvantage.
People in general underestimate how important school brand is. Not to say that personal qualities are not more important; ultimately it's up to you to take advantage of opportunities. But going to the right school, especially at the MBA level, opens doors that otherwise could be closed to you.
i mean, i come from a top 30, so i know what you mean about how certain schools never seem to budge- my school as been kind of stuck in it's middling position for a long time, and you'd think that you'd see the list be a little bit more dynamic...
however, it's kind of like a positive feedback thing: these schools are consistently ranked top because the best people go there, and then perform the best in society. the system may be a little bit broken, but the rankings follow sound reasoning in making this list
also, don't you think you attacking image and money is a little bit hypocritical, especially on a forum like this? why would you be here anyway?
Rankings are a tough call. I didn't go to a top school, wanted to, couldn't afford it - even with loans. Thats neither here nor there. Top schools do help you get a foot in the door; however, there are two questions to ask. 1. What is the drive of the individual? People find opportunties they don't just come to you. If you truly want to do something you will. 2. By going to a top school where will you be in 10 years compared to someone that didn't? Most likely the same job one with more debt and the other with less.
I think major matters more than school
The nike vs wal mart sneaker analogy is not very apt. Why? Because when it comes to private colleges, Oglethorpe is sometimes just as expensive as say, Dartmouth or Georgetown. And top schools like Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. can end up being the cheapest option or close to the cheapest option for many families.
The prestige/brand of the school is what matters. And if your college ranking is going to take that into account, and if that is what is cared about in a ranking, then college rankings do matter.
The "real" ranking of schools, i.e. where they fall in terms of reputation and prestige within your target industry, matters a huge amount. Rankings in magazines/papers are usually bull shit, with random variable s sending random schools up and down way too far.
i dont think it matters much as long as top 30 or 40 on bizweek
these prestige school threads will be the death of this site.
preftij*
No they don't matter you cretins have it all wrong. You better know someone in this game if you expect to move around. If not, you're better of learning to trade, make $250K then invest in something outside of wall street.
College rankings are just another tool that person A can use to claim they're better than person B. Person C or D can accomplish the same end using tools such as employer or salary or any number of variables.
At the end of the day, the question shouldn't be "Do College Rankings Matter" but rather, does being better than someone else based on some arbitrary measure matter?
Life is a shitshow.
Columbia > UPenn, sweeeet
Lets face a fact... MacroEconomics is the same at a Target School as it is at a Non-Target, and this basically goes for all of business majors. Finance is essentially black and white. Now I agree that assumptions and interpretations are why we enjoy finance and what makes it creative and unique. But what is taught in undergrad is merely the foundation. Regardless of the university, it is your work ethic that allows you to indulge yourself in the creative mindset. I made the financial decision to go to a state school over the $50k target schools. Now I have NO debt, and a excellent offer in IB... so what really is the difference?
The rankings will always be biased towards private schools so fuck it. Don't even know if there is a difference between top 5 state schools and private schools ranked #11-20.
There are three types of people concerning this topic: 1.) grads who think rankings are completely asinine and irrelevant and say it because they DON'T work in their favor 2.) grads who think rankings are completely asinine and irrelevant and don't say it because they DO work in their favor 3.) kids who haven't even graduated yet and thus aren't allowed to speak
Great comments everybody, thank you and I like the differing opinions!
Here’s a few that I’d like comment on…
Bonks thanks a lot for the information! I suggest everyone here at least take a look at this as it drives home the point of my article, Harvard Envy: Why Too Many Colleges Overshoot
I agree.
I’m glad you bring this up. Here’s why I think it stands: I went to RIT (Wal-Mart), a private second-tier engineering school for Finance and Economics. My alma mater, who was the President of the Financial Management Association had parents that both worked at Cornell (Nike) and friends that attended. He confessed their coursework was relatively the same and may in fact be more challenging at RIT because we did it in 10 weeks instead of 16! The point being, I got two degrees by spending less than I would at Cornell yet the subject matter is likely identical in nature. Like raz points out, finance doesn’t change from institution to institution you’re either teaching it correctly or not. The same goes for economics and I argue as a matter of value that one should pay the lesser amount for commoditized information. In other words, I can get the same basic function of a sneaker (two majors) from Wal-Mart (RIT) instead of paying for the more expensive Nike (Cornell). If instead, I went to Cornell I could get the same knowledge but pay more, ceterus paribus. So what I’m saying is that the functionality of either Nike or Wal-Mart sneakers are relatively the same but what’s added in the price of the Nike (Cornell) is a premium partly based on brand, image, perception etc.
Excellent point!
How much do B-school ratings matter (Originally Posted: 08/27/2016)
Let me be fairly straight and to the point. I would like as much senior advice on this as I can possibly get. I'm a first year analyst thinking a few years down the road about potential b school opportunities. Sure Harvard is great but honestly I don't need to work at Carlyle or KKR for my life to be complete.
With that said I still I would still like to set myself up well to work at a nice PE fund/ move up the ladder in IB/make a shitload of money somewhere else (okay so I'm not alone.)
So here's my question? How much do b school rating really matter? Assuming you do a quality job and a decent bank and are a fairly competent individual.
My backstory: I would love to get my MBA at UGA and have a shitload of fun (love the town, university and would love to go there.) Only problem, their MBA program isn't super strong and most people in finance would probably love to look down their noses at a UGA MBA.
For the most part, I could care less about that as I would like to actually enjoy life but I am curious what the impact of a sub-20 MBA program might be?
Any thoughts from those that would like to share their opinions / life experiences would be much appreciated. Thanks!
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