Porn and Video Games Are Ruining the Next Generation of Men

I wanted to discuss with you guys this very alarming article about the effect of porn and video games on men. You can find the whole version at Business Insider, but here's the gist:

The average boy spends 13 hours a week playing video games. The average girl spends 5. The average young American will spend 10,000 hours playing video games by age 21. That's twice the time it takes to earn a bachelor's degree.

Boys account for 70 percent of D's and F's given at school.

Research shows guys aren't interested in being husbands, fathers or the head of the household.

Researchers claim that internet pornography is hurting young boys' ability to form meaningful romantic relationships because they objectify their partner.

I'm a bit worried by all this but this could very well be the beginning of a dark era. This probably isn't that big an issue for the field of finance where people are very driven while at the same time being addicted to strip club. The rest of society though could be dragged down by the new porn/video games generations.

What do you think? Should we have a policy limiting the usage of video games and porn? It's probably not easy to implement but the future of our world is at stake!

 

Yeah it might be a good idea to limit games....idk if anything can be done about the porn except to teach kids early on about morals early on....might be hard when little jonny finds a copy of his dad's playboy or something

Success is my only option and failure is not
 

I'd say it's all a bit overblown.

But as someone who recently graduated from high school, there is a definite gender gap. I find your average girl to be a lot more hardworking and focused than your average guy. But the very top 3% of guys tend to be more ambitious, more so than the top 3% of girls. Probably a cultural thing there.

 

I'm not terribly concerned about husbands / fathers / heads of households -- I see that as more of a cultural shift than a sign of degradation in the quality of males. Marriage and parenthood are now seen as options, rather than social requirements, and the family is now more of a partnership than a patriarchy. I have no problem with that. Personally speaking, I have no desire to get married or have children, and I see marriage as a very arbitrary construct. I'm all for gay equality, but I'd rather see this come about through the deinstitutionalization of straight marriage than the coinstitutionalization of gay marriage (though it's a bit shallow to speak of it in terms of institutions when the problem is one of social mores and attitude).

I've personally observed the objectification resulting from porn (yes, from porn -- let's call it a control-group experiment). It's definitely a problem. I think the gender gap in game time arises from targeted marketing. There's probably also a non-trivial correlation between the loss of hours that could otherwise be used on education and the comparatively higher failure rate of males.

So, we may have on our hands a significant proportion of the male population that is unlearned and objectifies women. However, historically speaking, we may be relatively better off now in both of these regards than we were several generations ago. I'm not much for regulation -- I'd rather let people choose their own poison. As it stands, we're all going to die anyway -- we may as well all strive to achieve our individual conceptions of 'worth' and let each other do so. For the most part, females have the choice to avoid interaction with objectifying males. However, it becomes dangerous when this behavior is institutionalized and restricts individuals' self-regulation and choice.

 
Best Response

TAKE IT BACK!

Porn and Video Games are the only thing in this world that are right...Every day I look forward to going home and punishing my dick and then punishing noobs..they're the only things that keep me from offing myself

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 
DeanPortman:
TAKE IT BACK!

Porn and Video Games are the only thing in this world that are right...Every day I look forward to going home and punishing my dick and then punishing noobs..they're the only things that keep me from offing myself

Lol. Best post of the thread.

 
Thomas Ausart:
Research shows guys aren't interested in being husbands, fathers or the head of the household.

Let me be the first to call BS on this "research" piece

I hate victims who respect their executioners
 
BlackHat:
Thomas Ausart:
Research shows guys aren't interested in being husbands, fathers or the head of the household.

Let me be the first to call BS on this "research" piece

I think what they meant is that guys are less interested in being fathers than they were before.

Associate Editor at Mergers & Inquisitions @AusartThomas
 

You're pushing to many issues into a conflicting thesis. Yes, excessive gaming and porn are corrosive to personal growth and I've overdone it with both. The way I see it, an unstructured environment that has too much room for these distractions is the larger point. My parents did not allow video games and Internet usage was tightly controlled. So, i went through a phase of overindulgence but being grounded in moreconstuctive uses of time drew me out of that rut. I do pity a kid who's parents are so absent that they waste all their time on digital distractions, it says more about upbringing than the particular vice.

That having said, I'm a fan of games and porn, just like rock and roll.

Get busy living
 
UFOinsider:
You're pushing to many issues into a conflicting thesis. Yes, excessive gaming and porn are corrosive to personal growth and I've overdone it with both. The way I see it, an unstructured environment that has too much room for these distractions is the larger point. My parents did not allow video games and Internet usage was tightly controlled. So, i went through a phase of overindulgence but being grounded in moreconstuctive uses of time drew me out of that rut. I do pity a kid who's parents are so absent that they waste all their time on digital distractions, it says more about upbringing than the particular vice.

That having said, I'm a fan of games and porn, just like rock and roll.

Agree with you on the necessity of having some structure in your life put in place by the parents, but there's definitely an extreme to that as well... If you have super strict helicopter parents who don't let you play James Bond and watch rated R movies every now and then, that phase of overindulgence you mentioned ends up being pushed back later and later in your life. By the time everyone else has grown out of the video games and porn shit and is becoming an adult, you're finally getting the freedom to see those things since you're away from your parents, and all you want to do is finally indulge in those things.

Parenting is easy. Good parenting is not.

I hate victims who respect their executioners
 
BlackHat:
UFOinsider:
You're pushing to many issues into a conflicting thesis. Yes, excessive gaming and porn are corrosive to personal growth and I've overdone it with both. The way I see it, an unstructured environment that has too much room for these distractions is the larger point. My parents did not allow video games and Internet usage was tightly controlled. So, i went through a phase of overindulgence but being grounded in moreconstuctive uses of time drew me out of that rut. I do pity a kid who's parents are so absent that they waste all their time on digital distractions, it says more about upbringing than the particular vice.

That having said, I'm a fan of games and porn, just like rock and roll.

Agree with you on the necessity of having some structure in your life put in place by the parents, but there's definitely an extreme to that as well... If you have super strict helicopter parents who don't let you play James Bond and watch rated R movies every now and then, that phase of overindulgence you mentioned ends up being pushed back later and later in your life. By the time everyone else has grown out of the video games and porn shit and is becoming an adult, you're finally getting the freedom to see those things since you're away from your parents, and all you want to do is finally indulge in those things.

Parenting is easy. Good parenting is not.

This actualy happened to me. I went through the phase much later than most people my age: gaming for 20 hours straight, building a fucking library of exotic erotica, and then one day just burning everything and getting real.

The other thing is that schools, etc... other instutituions are failing at an alarming rate lately, so there's more involved with the corrosion of today's youth: the general system is failing. Whenever I see a sensationalistic article trying to explain the world's problems being rooted in one thing, I shudder. Success in career...in life in general...is a multifaced and long term project, and not the result of dramatizing one variable.

As for wanting a family, marriage, all that: I actually do. I'm not going to be as strict as my parents, it was counterproductive beyond a certain point, and boring. There's no rush, but I can't imagine a long term future without that.

Get busy living
 

My religious parents tried to limit both and it resulted in BS and conflict that effectively ruined my childhood. My opinion? Leave it the fuck alone. Limiting it will make the issue many times bigger than it actually is in reality. For the minute population that are actually "addicted" to porn and/or video games, it's a reflection of their own personal issues, not the P & V.

By the way, in regards to your title OP, I think they said this about jazz, rock & roll, pop, hip hop, movies. Stravinsky's Rite of Spring started a riot when it was played because its new rhythm and choreography shocked the audience. Shit, I think I'm beginning to see a pattern.

 
Nabooru:
My religious parents tried to limit both and it resulted in BS and conflict that effectively ruined my childhood. My opinion? Leave it the fuck alone. Limiting it will make the issue many times bigger than it actually is in reality. For the minute population that are actually "addicted" to porn and/or video games, it's a reflection of their own personal issues, not the P & V.

By the way, in regards to your title OP, I think they said this about jazz, rock & roll, pop, hip hop, movies. Stravinsky's Rite of Spring started a riot when it was played because its new rhythm and choreography shocked the audience. Shit, I think I'm beginning to see a pattern.

Is TV ruining the next generation of men? Is the Internet ruining the next generation of men? Is Facebook ruining the next generation of men? Is Twitter ruining the next generation of men? Is Planking ruining the next generation of men? Is Tebowing ruining the next generation of men? Is Twilight ruining the next generation of men? Is 50 Shades of Grey ruining the next generation of men?

I think the simple answer here is that no generation of men is any more or less ruined than the one before it. We're all fucked up and wouldn't even know the difference between fixing it and making it worse if it hit us in the face.

I hate victims who respect their executioners
 
BlackHat:
Nabooru:
My religious parents tried to limit both and it resulted in BS and conflict that effectively ruined my childhood. My opinion? Leave it the fuck alone. Limiting it will make the issue many times bigger than it actually is in reality. For the minute population that are actually "addicted" to porn and/or video games, it's a reflection of their own personal issues, not the P & V.

By the way, in regards to your title OP, I think they said this about jazz, rock & roll, pop, hip hop, movies. Stravinsky's Rite of Spring started a riot when it was played because its new rhythm and choreography shocked the audience. Shit, I think I'm beginning to see a pattern.

Is TV ruining the next generation of men? Is the Internet ruining the next generation of men? Is Facebook ruining the next generation of men? Is Twitter ruining the next generation of men? Is Planking ruining the next generation of men? Is Tebowing ruining the next generation of men? Is Twilight ruining the next generation of men? Is 50 Shades of Grey ruining the next generation of men?

I think the simple answer here is that no generation of men is any more or less ruined than the one before it. We're all fucked up and wouldn't even know the difference between fixing it and making it worse if it hit us in the face.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

But you know who really is ruining the next generation of men? Swagon. Let's blame swagon.

 
Nabooru:

I think the simple answer here is that no generation of men is any more or less ruined than the one before it. We're all fucked up and wouldn't even know the difference between fixing it and making it worse if it hit us in the face.

Well if women are kicking our ass at school/uni more than the previous generation it means we are losing ground. It's hard to say for society as a whole but it's easy to compare men vs women.

Associate Editor at Mergers & Inquisitions @AusartThomas
 

I think the dangers listed in the article - men not wanting to accept the responsibilities of being fathers and the issue of objectifying women - are omnipresent. They're not good, but don't point at the symptoms.That said, it's also possible to overstate the "we're all the same" mantra about the generations. The guys who took Normandy and defeated Hitler gave rise to the whiny, indulgent Boomer vaginas currently pushing us further into insolvency.

BlackHat - yes, Twilight is definitely ruining the next generation of men.

 
Scott Irish:
The guys who took Normandy and defeated Hitler gave rise to the whiny, indulgent Boomer vaginas currently pushing us further into insolvency.
That generation did it's duty except in one key area: they were never around as parents and were too parochial. The Great Generation were usually not around to parent because they were fighting a war and then were working: they were a very productive generation. The Baby Boomers were similiarly absent from being role models, but because they were caught up in their own selfishness, and this is the role model that kids saw.

The video games and porn are merely digital incarnations of the same things that idle youth have indulged themselves in across ages: gambling and promiscuity, or more broadly...wontonness. Also, the Baby Boomer generation was very thorough in creating a two tier system in almost every industry. By two tier, there are salaried, pensioned, social security protected adults and a generation of youth that are not only largely barred from these benefits, but also required to pay into the current unsustainable sceme.

Our generation is being used. Unfortunately, the boomers don't care about us. Fortunately, they're getting old and feeble. So now, we have to fight back. I chose finance as the professional starting point. That's what I saw in the financial crisis: a bunch of increasingly crooked and impotent tyrants that could no longer maintain their grip because of their own incompetence.

"Seriously: bankers that couldn't keep their own fucking banks capitalized??? LAUGHABLE. Step aside, I'll do it for you, BETTER THAN YOU, so fucking retire already. Or die. I don't care. We've been exploited, now it's your fucking turn," is what was in my mind coming in to NYC for the first time. (among many others...)

This is something I clued into about four years ago, and it's been on my mind ever since. Here's some other articles on this subject: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/04/it-can-happen-here-eur… http://www.esquire.com/features/young-people-in-the-recession-0412

Get busy living
 
UFOinsider][quote=Scott Irish:
The guys who took Normandy and defeated Hitler gave rise to the whiny, indulgent Boomer vaginas currently pushing us further into insolvency.
That generation did it's duty except in one key area: they were never around as parents and were too parochial. The Great Generation were usually not around to parent because they were fighting a war and then were working: they were a very productive generation. The Baby Boomers were similiarly absent from being role models, but because they were caught up in their own selfishness, and this is the role model that kids saw.

The video games and porn are merely digital incarnations of the same things that idle youth have indulged themselves in across ages: gambling and promiscuity, or more broadly...wontonness. Also, the Baby Boomer generation was very thorough in creating a two tier system in almost every industry. By two tier, there are salaried, pensioned, social security protected adults and a generation of youth that are not only largely barred from these benefits, but also required to pay into the current unsustainable sceme.

Our generation is being used. Unfortunately, the boomers don't care about us. Fortunately, they're getting old and feeble. So now, we have to fight back. I chose finance as the professional starting point. That's what I saw in the financial crisis: a bunch of increasingly crooked and impotent tyrants that could no longer maintain their grip because of their own incompetence.

"Seriously: bankers that couldn't keep their own fucking banks capitalized??? LAUGHABLE. Step aside, I'll do it for you, BETTER THAN YOU, so fucking retire already. Or die. I don't care. We've been exploited, now it's your fucking turn," is what was in my mind coming in to NYC for the first time. (among many others...)

This is something I clued into about four years ago, and it's been on my mind ever since. Here's some other articles on this subject: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/04/it-can-happen-here-eur… http://www.esquire.com/features/young-people-in-the-recession-0412[/quo…]

Thank you.

Glad to know there are others who see this and feel this way.

"That dude is so haole, he don't even have any breath left."
 
Scott Irish:
I think the dangers listed in the article - men not wanting to accept the responsibilities of being fathers and the issue of objectifying women - are omnipresent. They're not good, but don't point at the symptoms.That said, it's also possible to overstate the "we're all the same" mantra about the generations. The guys who took Normandy and defeated Hitler gave rise to the whiny, indulgent Boomer vaginas currently pushing us further into insolvency.

BlackHat - yes, Twilight is definitely ruining the next generation of men.

SB for you!

Eventus stultorum magister.
 
melvvvar:
my childhood was all about Street Fighter and jacking off to Victoria's Secret catalogues.

Holy F, THIS. When I was 13 I watered the plants and got the mail for a neighbor while they were out of town once. They got a new Victoria's secret catalogue like every day. I'd spend a few hours crushing fools with my mighty HA DO KEN and then roll over to see what gems were in store from our lady Victoria. My parents always wondered what the hell took me so long to water a few plants...

 

I agree about the game. It is somewhat a waste of time for children where they could be learning something else.

However, I totally disagree with you on porn. Porn is more beneficial than bad.

Well, too much of anything is not a good thing.

 

Well, with 10,000 hours being the time necessary to be an "expert" at something, I think there is a bright future ahead for Major League Gaming. I can't wait for the day in 2025 when the COD:15 world series is on prime time.

Then again, think of the healthcare costs these kids who game all day without exercise will put on the rest of us. Pretty soon gaming induced obesity/carpal tunnel/vision problems will be considered a disability.

My WSO Blog "Unbelievably Believable" -- RG3
 
Thomas Ausart:

Research shows guys aren't interested in being husbands, fathers or the head of the household.

And this is surprising or different than the majority of human history how?

Researchers claim that internet pornography is hurting young boys' ability to form meaningful romantic relationships because they objectify their partner.

Just a random thought, why is it that so many men and their wives stop having sex after years together? Not because they are objectifying or have been exposed to some new, ultra porn, surely?

“...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” - Schopenhauer
 
seabird:
Thomas Ausart:

Research shows guys aren't interested in being husbands, fathers or the head of the household.

And this is surprising or different than the majority of human history how?

For most of human history, having a family conveyed a full fledged adult, it was every bit as important as career...now both are being neglected. Part of this view is archaic, and different models of what a family can/should be are emerging. The other part...not having one at all...is an evolutionary dead end and is a very serious problem for civilization as a whole and on an idividual level.
Get busy living
 

www.yourbrainonporn.com

Interesting website. I suggest you all at the very least try what they are suggesting.

Basically, they argue that hyper-stimulation, especially among young males, is ruining many men's lives. It's making them dysfunctional in the bedroom, poor fathers / adults, less responsible, more depressed, and more anxious. Now I am not saying porn/video games/movies/whatever are the root of all of these problems, but I do think they play a significant part in the problem. Men were/are born and bred much more so than woman, to seek novelty/excitement/success. If you give a man millions of pictures of naked women, and especially videos, he treats that like a genetic bonanza and eventually has negative side-effects. The same holds true for video games. There is no inherent difference in the effects real world success has vs. virtual world "success." Getting an epic drop on WoW has the same effect on your brain in a basic sense as getting that bonus. That is where the problem lies- even though we think we can differentiate between what's "real" and what's fake, we really can't. We can recognize something is fake consciously, but our more primal dopamine and reward systems haven't quite realized that. That's why we have 12 million men (well, mostly) throwing away years of their lives for pixels on the screen. To any rational mind the whole idea seems insane, and the same holds true for pornography / drugs. There is no actual benefit entailed, but our brain sure thinks so.

Just my 2 cents.

 
blackrainn:
www.yourbrainonporn.com

Interesting website. I suggest you all at the very least try what they are suggesting.

Basically, they argue that hyper-stimulation, especially among young males, is ruining many men's lives. It's making them dysfunctional in the bedroom, poor fathers / adults, less responsible, more depressed, and more anxious. Now I am not saying porn/video games/movies/whatever are the root of all of these problems, but I do think they play a significant part in the problem. Men were/are born and bred much more so than woman, to seek novelty/excitement/success. If you give a man millions of pictures of naked women, and especially videos, he treats that like a genetic bonanza and eventually has negative side-effects. The same holds true for video games. There is no inherent difference in the effects real world success has vs. virtual world "success." Getting an epic drop on WoW has the same effect on your brain in a basic sense as getting that bonus. That is where the problem lies- even though we think we can differentiate between what's "real" and what's fake, we really can't. We can recognize something is fake consciously, but our more primal dopamine and reward systems haven't quite realized that. That's why we have 12 million men (well, mostly) throwing away years of their lives for pixels on the screen. To any rational mind the whole idea seems insane, and the same holds true for pornography / drugs. There is no actual benefit entailed, but our brain sure thinks so.

Just my 2 cents.

While interesting, I think this is one of those things guys, especially here, will never talk about.

“...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” - Schopenhauer
 
Nobama88:
Maybe it is just me and my warped idolization for the Greatest Generation, but men seem to have really gone down hill since then...
This isn't helping things. Also realize that the image was false. Yeah, they fought a war and worked a lot, but they had their flaws just like any other generation...they just didn't have them documented on facebook/TV/twitter like they do now.

Same with women: plenty of them worked, they were just invisible. So, half of this is that yes porn+games are problem in that they hijack basic survival mechanisms in the brain. The other half is that at this point in history we're AWARE of the problems, as opposed to previous generations that didn't know much about the world.

Get busy living
 
UFOinsider:
Nobama88:
Maybe it is just me and my warped idolization for the Greatest Generation, but men seem to have really gone down hill since then...
This isn't helping things. Also realize that the image was false. Yeah, they fought a war and worked a lot, but they had their flaws just like any other generation...they just didn't have them documented on facebook/TV/twitter like they do now.

Same with women: plenty of them worked, they were just invisible. So, half of this is that yes porn+games are problem in that they hijack basic survival mechanisms in the brain. The other half is that at this point in history we're AWARE of the problems, as opposed to previous generations that didn't know much about the world.

That is true, that is why I said my warped idolization of that generation. Just seemed like a genration where the men knew what was important and didn't bitch about getting the shit done and done right.

Now a days, your average guy bitches carrying in the groceries...

 

I think men have abandoned traditional roles because women have done the same. I think we don't really know what to do with ourselves as a gender.

It used to be "support the family". But marriage is an empirically bad financial decision for most guys, and a lot of girls want to commit to careers. There is no family unit left to support. Many girls enjoy the hook-up culture we have created. How many 22-25 year old girls want to get married?

A random hookup can ruin your life if a girl decides that she regrets it the morning after and claims sexual assault/statutory rape. Porn is safer, and easier than going out every night.

Likewise, a lot of male activities (e.g. hunting, fishing, etc.) are either impossible in the city or discouraged by society. So we pursue them virtually.

Society has told men that we are superfluous. Why wouldn't we live for our own pleasure? Alternately, we can throw ourselves at our jobs, like most people on this site.

 
West Coast rainmaker:
I think men have abandoned traditional roles because women have done the same. I think we don't really know what to do with ourselves as a gender.

It used to be "support the family". But marriage is an empirically bad financial decision for most guys, and a lot of girls want to commit to careers. There is no family unit left to support. Many girls enjoy the hook-up culture we have created. How many 22-25 year old girls want to get married?

A random hookup can ruin your life if a girl decides that she regrets it the morning after and claims sexual assault/statutory rape. Porn is safer, and easier than going out every night.

Likewise, a lot of male activities (e.g. hunting, fishing, etc.) are either impossible in the city or discouraged by society. So we pursue them virtually.

Society has told men that we are superfluous. Why wouldn't we live for our own pleasure? Alternately, we can throw ourselves at our jobs, like most people on this site.

It's scary how much I used to agree with this.
Get busy living
 

Video games have been proven to deter healthy relationships and overall well being. Video games focus less on emotional or rationale forethought, which are imperative toward human growth from a neurological perspective.

Pornography, on the other hand, has been proven to deter "meaningful relationship, but not "healthy" ones. When given "meaningful", we define this as "marriage", "nuclear family relationship". When given "healthy", we define this as libido, hormones, primitive emotional satisfaction. Having sex with multiple partners can lead to unhealthy realistic issues (STDs, HIV, anti-pAB development), yet, having sex with a few can lead to a healthy lifestyle, which satisfies emotional and physical needs.

I do believe that video games are an illogical means to satisfying ones "free-time". Pornography, however, can satisfy our most primitive of physiological needs, as evidence claims through evolutionary processes. Who is to say that the institution of "marriage", is something which satisfies these evolutionary urge?

However I must agree, marriage creates progress in rationale well-being, and can brush aside our physiological urges of our ancestral past (having multiple mates).

"Live as if you were to die tomorrow, learn as if you were to live forever."
 

Porn is more of a problem than video games, and I've seen my share of both.

As far as real world consequences, consider this: what are you more likely to find yourself doing in real life--pulling out a massive sword and jabbing a dragon's eye out, or subconsciously trying to reenact the porn you've watched with your significant other?

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com
 

I'm convinced that many people become pyscho killers / rapists due to inadequate sex lives / weird sexual desires. Porn keeps many of these people in their rooms rather then out on the streets.

In The Flesh:
Porn is more of a problem than video games, and I've seen my share of both.

As far as real world consequences, consider this: what are you more likely to find yourself doing in real life--pulling out a massive sword and jabbing a dragon's eye out, or subconsciously trying to reenact the porn you've watched with your significant other?

Reenacting what you've seen in a porn with your significant other would end pretty harmlessly....usually on her face.

 
MoneyTalksMonkeysWalk:
I'm convinced that many people become pyscho killers / rapists due to inadequate sex lives / weird sexual desires. Porn keeps many of these people in their rooms rather then out on the streets.
In The Flesh:
Porn is more of a problem than video games, and I've seen my share of both.

As far as real world consequences, consider this: what are you more likely to find yourself doing in real life--pulling out a massive sword and jabbing a dragon's eye out, or subconsciously trying to reenact the porn you've watched with your significant other?

Reenacting what you've seen in a porn with your significant other would end pretty harmlessly....usually on her face.

Dude, porn isn't reality any more than World of Warcraft is.

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com
 

I think if Valve Corporation were to ever go public they would do quite well due to Steam and their online store.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 
Nefarious-:
I think if Valve Corporation were to ever go public they would do quite well due to Steam and their online store.

I agree, brilliant business model. I think of them like Amazon- they could have done quite well as an independent studio. But they chose to build out the back end (like AWS) and now have their own ecosystem. They built a defensible competitive advantage in what is otherwise a highly competitive industry.

 
Unforseen:
spent 15 hours beating halo 4 on legendary this weekend

time well spent imo

so jealous right now
"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 

I've always had the feeling that developers care way more about the games than their shareholders. Grandma's Boy is obviously an exaggeration of the culture at these places but it's still all about the final product regardless of costs.

 

^ this is my opinion as well. And in some way, it pays off; the longevity of brands/series (along with community).

Between Black Ops II and Assassin's Creed III, which would you recommend more? Definitely need to pick up Halo 4 sometime soon, though. Been waiting months for SC2:HotS so I need things to fill my time :(

Here's one question though-- if LoL were to be monetized, would the community still be as large as it is now? It's managed to overthrow so many of large competitive games (DotA, SC, etc.)

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 
chicandtoughness:
^ this is my opinion as well. And in some way, it pays off; the longevity of brands/series (along with community).

Between Black Ops II and Assassin's Creed III, which would you recommend more? Definitely need to pick up Halo 4 sometime soon, though. Been waiting months for SC2:HotS so I need things to fill my time :(

Here's one question though-- if LoL were to be monetized, would the community still be as large as it is now? It's managed to overthrow so many of large competitive games (DotA, SC, etc.)

Halo 4 is awesome, Can't speak for Bops2 but I heard the zombies is fantastic. LoL would have a larger community if it was monetized is my guess. They would be able to make the game a lot better with the extra money. Assassins Creed III is awesome too btw. As for investing in gaming companies I don't feel comfortable doing it...ever
 
chicandtoughness:
^ this is my opinion as well. And in some way, it pays off; the longevity of brands/series (along with community).

Between Black Ops II and Assassin's Creed III, which would you recommend more? Definitely need to pick up Halo 4 sometime soon, though. Been waiting months for SC2:HotS so I need things to fill my time :(

Here's one question though-- if LoL were to be monetized, would the community still be as large as it is now? It's managed to overthrow so many of large competitive games (DotA, SC, etc.)

Halo 4 is awesome, Can't speak for Bops2 but I heard the zombies is fantastic. LoL would have a larger community if it was monetized is my guess. They would be able to make the game a lot better with the extra money. Assassins Creed III is awesome too btw. As for investing in gaming companies I don't feel comfortable doing it...ever
 

I haven't played video games since like...high school...the only game I play is poker...

Baby you're the perfect shape, baby you're the perfect weight. Treat me like my birthday, I want it this way and I want it that way. It makes a man feel good baby.
 
CollegeStudent:
E-sports is where it's at.

Games like League of Legends are the future.

I will second this, I work very closely with some players in this arena and it is exploding. The hard part is monetizing the viewership of live events.

And so it goes
 
CollegeStudent:
E-sports is where it's at.

Games like League of Legends are the future.

As someone who has followed competitive SC:BW for years (and didn't really like SC2 and quit gaming altogether), I wouldn't be so sure.

Not saying it won't, but video games are a fickle business and 10 years from now you just won't know what will happen. BW had 50 k live attendance for some of their finals in South Korean at one pointbut it's dead there now. Hell, there was talk about arcade gamers being the future something decades ago, but that just died down. I wouldn't mind making a few bets on E-sports, but I wouldn't make big bets on it though.

73 good sir!
 

I have not reviewed the numbers in awhile and don't have any exact recommendations but to add some color to your initial ideas (from my albeit amateur perspective):

Like TheKing said, it is a purely hit driven business but bad moves can snowball with key talent losses. ie BioWare/EA releasing The Old Republic which goes F2P in about 2 or 3 days (ouch, considering it might have the largest budget of all time for a video game) followed by the loss of the "Doctors".

Also, I know that Vivendi was shopping its stake in ATVI not long ago but had issues finding a buyer....it will be interesting to see how that plays out relative to the new Black Ops release.

Looking ahead I would not be long on the big console makers as there seems to be so much convergence in value proposition between tech/title offerings from PC, Playstation and X Box (especially coming into the new gen of consoles) while Nintendo, frankly, appears aimless about its future in the business.

THQ could be interesting as they definitely have a bullpen of content and brands to draw from but have been dragged through the mud by poor management decisions and could be snapped up by a strategic buyer.

As far as ideal investments, for me, if Team Fortress 2 alone went public I would be a buyer (some kind of VGIT.....)

As for my purchases, I am looking forward to Far Cry 3 quite a bit.

Just my .02. (Also, I have no active positions ATM, just love the business of games).

 

I grew out of video games where you're just mashing buttons a few years ago. Kinda boring if you ask me, no matter how many high definition monsters and machine guns are flashing on the screen.

That being said, I'm still a fan of games that feel like you're living out an artsy action film, with excellent cinematic sequences thrown in. The Uncharted series come to mind --> getting all the way through Among Thieves after traversing the gorgeous landscapes of Nepal and the Himalayas was defintely enjoyable.

 

Not researched- but I get the impression that the VG industry is even more hit-or-loss than movies. Nowadays a videogame basically HAS to be multiplayer to get decent sales- and though some people watch niche movies- almost nobody hears about- much less has interest in- games without a large following for multiplayer gaming.

 
selleverything:
Not researched- but I get the impression that the VG industry is even more hit-or-loss than movies. Nowadays a videogame basically HAS to be multiplayer to get decent sales- and though some people watch niche movies- almost nobody hears about- much less has interest in- games without a large following for multiplayer gaming.
I could beg to differ; single-player games still have rather large interests, and niche games are still being made. It is obvious, however, that if you want to develop a multiplayer game it had better be in a non-niche area, otherwise it simply can't sustain itself. See: the fifty-thousand Ragnarok Online clones that started popping up in 2006/2007 era. None of them are still around because they basically all offer the same thing... but why would I play an MMORPG -- even if it were higher quality and better gameplay -- if there are only 200 people on a server at a time? Better to stick with the older but still popular titles like Ragnarok who could sometimes call 1000+ individuals online any single server at any time. Same for the MapleStory clones.

Multiplayer games are difficult to gain that initial following... I honestly can't think of a well-known (massive) multiplayer game nowadays that doesn't have roots in older games. (SC2 --> BW period, etc.) LoL is somewhat of an exception but it was for a time the only good MOBA alternative to old-school DotA. Not enough love for DotA2 nowadays :(

TheKing:
If you're a casual gamer, why spend $300 to buy a console and the latest blockbuster game when you can just download the latest Angry Birds title for three bucks onto your heavily subsidized smart phone?
Even on the level of casual gaming, I don't think you can properly compare console games with time-filling pursuits like Angry Birds, though. They're distinct enough to be two entirely different subsectors within the gaming media industry. Hell, does anyone here even consider Angry Birds an actual game in the same way you'd consider something like Pokemon a game?! (They're both on portable consoles, so logically they should be somewhat similar... but I doubt anyone would put the two on the same level.)
Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 
selleverything:
Not researched- but I get the impression that the VG industry is even more hit-or-loss than movies. Nowadays a videogame basically HAS to be multiplayer to get decent sales- and though some people watch niche movies- almost nobody hears about- much less has interest in- games without a large following for multiplayer gaming.

One of the biggest pieces of anecdotal evidence for the "dumbing down" of video games is, in my opinion, the proliferation of first person shooters (i.e. Call of Duty.) The audience for a game like Assassin's Creed or the Uncharted series is never going to be as large as the audience for a relatively mindless shoot-em-up type game. The Massive Multiplayer Online games, like WoW, are also big. But, I don't know of anything that's been able to really topple WoW in that part of the market.


Side note: if you comment in response to this thread and all you have to say is "I dont play video games, haven't since high school," then you are a hardo. Don't need to play games to appreciate the business aspect of them. Not to mention, who wouldn't want to play Mario Kart right now? Seriously.

 

Rumor is Blizzard has a new MMORPG coming out...but they are so tight lipped we won't know for sure till they announce it.

Plus Blizz pushed SC II: Heart of the Swarm to next year and we all know how hardcore their fanbase is.

That being said, the free to play model seems to be gaining some traction with other MMORPGs not called WoW. I have been out of the MMORPG loop for a long time so I can't be too sure if this is becoming the norm or if it is still an outlier.

 

Surprised to see this post, but glad. Do have an insider's approach to it (in with gaming producer). Kiss Gamestop good bye. Box games like Assassins Creed and COD still gross massive ammounts, but box game trends are moving. In part, its due to apps. But what youre missing is the downloadable market places. From the consoles as well as PC. Valuation numbers from online platforms like Steam (owned by Valve) are exponentially increasing. Ten years ago, investing your money in a producer was big money. Now a days, if they don't have their foot in the door for virtually downloadable games, your better off trying your hand at developing your own apps.

 

After they decided to shit on their most talented moneymakers (Jason West and Vince Zampella), ATVI accelerated their demise.

MOH was slated to be the new king of FPS, until they released MOHW (which is a piece of dogshit. Beautiful game engine, but dogshit nonetheless)

"Come at me, bro"- José de Palafox y Melci
 

I've never been big into the developers or publishers of games. Games are too much hit or miss and as we've all said, the upfront investment is pretty substantial considering it could blow up in your face. (Schilling is a prime example.)

But I am a fan of GME primarily because of their used game business (~45% margins) and realistically, their only risk is that the video game industry goes south. (Which screws the developers and publishers anyway, so everyone is effed in the industry at that point.)

But I think you'll see more focus on big name titles and rehashed games from the big devs/publishers. Not many of them are that willing to take risk in new IPs. Of course the casual gamer is out there and the pubs will definitely go after them. But so far, only the Wii has been able to attract the casual gamer and that console is on its way out.

 

Last generation, a single player campaign lasted 30+ hours to complete. Zelda, Final Fantasy, you name it, it took 30+ hours to finish the damn game. This generation, even though we have a medium that can support more data; your average campaign will last you 5-6 hours if you're lucky. The only series that I've played this generation that has lasted longer is Assassin's Creed, which normally takes 15-20 hours to finish (still down from the average 30+ hours of last generation).

Single player gaming is going down hill.I believe it has something to do with the attention span of the average kid. Companies have started catering to the average kid/whole family (larger audience) by dumbing games down (point and shoot) and making them really short so that your average individual can finish the game and buy the next one. I think that in the future, we're going to have games that are developed primarily with multiplayer in mind while having a watered down short campaign that nobody will ever play. This way, the company can keep churning out downloadable content and keep money flowing in like MMOs do with their pay-to-play model.

Even Ubisoft, creators of the popular Assassin's Creed series, were compelled to create a multiplayer section for their game. Did they always want to do it? who knows, but I suspect it had something to do with the fact that campaign only games just don't sell as well.

Also, to the gentleman that likes GME. They may be fucked next generation if the three major console companies decide to go all digital and provide their games online only (something that has been discussed). They're already feeling the heat because companies like Activision have discussed blocking off players from playing online if they purchase a used copy (unless of course they pay more money to gain access).

 

I don't think you'll see companies going all digital. While it is true that many games are offered online, not everyone is willing to go that route since not everyone has broadband or may have data caps on internet. (Can you imagine downloading 25-50GB per game? Blu-Rays hold this amount @ max capacity.) I think the online component being blocked off is known issue already. GME actually was sued in California for not explicitly notifying customers about this issue. But yea there are some issues with GME no doubt. I think they got beat up mainly because people are worried about mobile gaming killing off GME.

 

I'm enjoying the comments of people taking the time to state specifically that they don't play video games. Just like going into LGBF forums and stating that you're not gay.

Laughs all round.

1percentblog.com
 

Ultimately, from an investment perspective, it just does not seem like there is a lot of great value to be found on the public markets for interactive entertainment. However, I think there is enormous opportunity for growth equity or venture investment in a dev kit license holder (for example, Epic Games' Unreal, which has revenue sharing license terms and is used for a large % of the biggest games of all time).

Unfortunately, while there is a lot of money to be made in digital distribution the best we can do is look through the window at Valve and the money that they print (I would be blown away if they ever go public or are bought before Gabe Newell retires) or buy into EA and watch them squander the cash Origin network provides on next year's $400M marketing campaign for Medal of Honor 10: Modern Warfarier Than The Last One. Plus, I just don't see how a distribution network independent of a publisher can thrive.

Unless someone develops a Trillian-esque program to turn all those "digital store" clients into a one stop shop or a company that enhances games distribution tech there doesn't seem to be a way to capture value from that niche either.

 

Videogames are a waste of life.

Japan economy is in shatters since the 16-bit consoles came to life - gaming was not for kids there and the millions of 20 or 30-somethings locked in their rooms all day probably helped to screw the GDP growth to some extent.

The little kids of the early 90s are now pushing 30 in US and many have grown up to do the same, with brief breaks to join OWS protests or collect some government benefits.

 
Improving:
Videogames are a waste of life. The little kids of the early 90s are now pushing 30 in US and many have grown up to do the same, with brief breaks to join OWS protests or collect some government benefits.
What a generalization :( Many of the smartest people I know are gamers, and some can even attribute their success to gaming (seriously; if you had the patience to make it through that many rounds of Final Fantasy then you have the patience to make it through -anything-). Hell, half of the people in tech nowadays got interested in computer science and development because of the excellent console games of the 90s. Don't be hating on my SNES :(
VoidTrading:
But yes. I agree. They really do need to fix SC2. Plus, I hate that they pushed back HOTS. I don't even care about the multiplayer aspect of it, because I no longer have the time, but the story is still pretty kick ass.
I have a few things to say about the story in WoL... but I'm hoping the fact that HotS is the Zerg expansion that we'll get to see more badass Kerrigan. I'll give it some time.

still patiently waiting all these years for Protoss to get some major love in campaign... LotV seems light-years away :(

Oreos:
Unforseen:
spent 15 hours beating halo 4 on legendary this weekend time well spent imo
so jealous right now
Same. Screw it, I get paid tomorrow and I'm going out and buying it.
Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

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Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

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