Q&A with Flake, “Don’t waste your time and energy in a back office role.”

How do I even begin to introduce Flake? More than anything else, Flake is really here for our enjoyment. Sure, maybe Flake is not as helpful as the legendary CompBanker, but that does not mean he is undeserving a Q&A. Within our interview, there are some real, solid lessons about the realities of networking from the back office to score an elusive FO role. Give the man props, because the BO-to-FO move is the epitome of doing the non-target hustle.

Although Flake has previously done an equity research focused Q&A, I wanted to sit down with him to discuss his back-office transition and his feelings about his current ER role. In this Q&A, Flake discusses his background, how to internally network from the back office, and the qualities of a successfully ER associate.

Please, enjoy, and make sure to look out for more of my Q&A’s with our more experienced users.


MF: Let's talk about your background, education, etc. - where did you come from? How did you get your initial Back Office job? What makes you special?

Flake: I went to a non-target state school, and graduated in 2009. How non-target? Well, a few weeks ago I had a meeting with a CEO of one of the companies under my coverage and he asked what school I attended (he was a Wharton UG and MBA man himself). I had to look at the floor, kick around a bit, and mutter the name under my breath.

Where did I come from? Russia, over a decade ago.

I had two summer analyst interviews for my junior year, one was an operations position at the BB that I currently work at, and the other was Blackrock PAG. Looking back, I realize neither of those was great, but I was ecstatic to receive the offers. Given that I was clueless back then, I made my decision based on brand name (I didn’t even know what in the world Blackrock was, seriously).

I thought I was the shit. I thought, “This is it, this is that Finance job that everyone keeps talking about.” I was proud of myself for not even trying and getting those. At $55,000 a year and $10,000 bonus at signing I figured I was well on my way of hitting that $100,000 by 30 goal (seriously, again). If I knew myself back then, I would have slapped the sh*t out of that kid.

What makes me special? The helmet, I guess.

-

MF: How did you know you wanted to work in equity research, if anything?

Flake: I didn’t know I wanted ER until I received my full-time offer at the end of my BB ops summer gig. After doing mindless shit for 10 weeks straight, it finally hit me that there are different divisions within the bank. I realized that operations was not what I wanted and it was definitely not “it”. I still signed the offer given the circumstances.

It was Fall ’08, I believe, and firms were cancelling OCR interviews at the time. I picked up the pace a bit during my senior year and came up with a master plan: 1) work in my BO job at 25% capacity, 2) spend the other 75% learning everything there is to learn about ER and IBD (my passion for both was a result of taking a couple of corporate finance classes during senior year), 3)???, and finally, 4) transition to ER or IB. More on this later…

After reading maybe 4-5 different books on investment banking, becoming addicted to WSJ and Barron’s, and speaking briefly to an ER associate who I met randomly- I knew what I wanted to do.

-

MF: Are you an analyst or associate?

Flake: As you may know, an analyst is more senior than an associate in a sell-side ER hierarchy. This is an external structure that we use for clients, reports, etc. Internally, we still follow the whole Analyst>Associate>VP>Director>MD structure. So my corporate/internal title is a 1st year Associate. Previously, I was an analyst for 2 years (split evenly between ER and BO).

-

MF: You mentioned that you networked your way to an FO associate job (granted some of it was sheer luck)... how would you recommend going about internally networking? What did you learn from your experience of almost getting the boot from networking a little too hard?

Flake: With networking, just be normal. I didn’t want to come off as some try-hard desperate brown-noser, and at the same time I didn’t want to come off self-entitled and cocky. Just be modest, be curious (bi-curious if that’s your thing), ask good questions, let the person talk about himself or herself, and just be able to shoot the sh*t with the person if it comes to that.

Despite my short career and my inexperience, I am still contacted by random people who want to “network” with me. Sure, I meet them. We talk, or try to. Some of them try so hard you can smell their bullshit from a mile away. The others say shit like “so my main concern is that ER is all about writing and modeling, I just don’t want to be stuck looking at an excel sheet all day”. Yes, valid question, but you don’t have to sound like a dick when phrasing it.

You can find my detailed BO to FO story in that Q&A thread I started in December. What I learned: if you want something, you go and get it. All good things require sacrifices; otherwise they are called hand-outs (occupy my ass). If I could go back to the BO, I would do the exact same thing.

-

MF: Talk to us about how to use a company directory?

Flake: Using the directory should be easy. I don’t know how it works at other firms, but I can filter mine by division, title, team, etc, which made it relatively easy to find the people you wanted. The one thing I fucked up on was cold emailing a tech analyst in SF, asking him to grab lunch/coffee. I’m in New York. So just pay attention. When you’re excited to email someone you can make a dumb mistake like that.

Lastly, if ER is your thing, you should have access to your bank’s research reports. Form your questions around those notes when emailing an analyst or an associate. Don’t ask obvious sh*t either; get a little creative with it to show that you are knowledgeable and interested in that sector. Otherwise, I will just attach a copy of my report and tell you to “look on page 3.”

-

MF: What is more important, a superior technical knowledge or superior amicable personality?

Flake: I would never isolate one of those and say that’s the most important. It is a mix of both…also sex appeal helps. For example, I would attribute 90% of my ER transition to my handsomeness. But seriously, you do need both though.

Technical:

1) Helps instill confidence in your clients and establish your credibility as a reliable source of information
2) Having something like the CFA charter should help with your potential move to the buy side
3) Knowing your sh*t will also make your analyst more comfortable with giving you greater responsibility. Your analyst has to be confident in your analysis and at some point the analyst shouldn’t feel like he or she needs to hold your hand.

Amicable personality:

1) ER analysts are not anti-social and they are not geeks or nerds or whatever I’ve seen thrown around occasionally
2) you need be personable when interacting with big institutional accounts and c-level executives of the industry that you cover.

-

MF: What grinds your gears the most when it comes to daily interaction with people (be it supervisors or subordinates)?

Flake: I don’t like people who act self-entitled. I don’t like anyone who constantly argues and tries to convince you they are right, even though they have been wrong the previous 10 times in a row. I don’t like people who get offended easily or can’t handle constructive criticism. I like modesty. I like someone I can grab a drink with and talk about anything, including WORK. Yes, work. Just because you hate your job doesn’t mean I hate mine and should shy away from discussing it in a social setting.

I have one subordinate, if you will; he is a “research assistant”. The thing I hate about him is his lack of attention to detail and his inability to take ownership of what I tell him to do. I feel like he does shit just to finish it, he doesn’t care about the end result and everything he hands over to me is sloppy.

My boss on the other hand, is exactly the type of person I just described. I can talk to him about anything and everything. He is easy-going but he can be strict and he can be a dick if the timing is right and shit needs to get done. That’s what I usually look for in a man.

-

MF: You're one of the people that transitioned from Operations to the Front Office, what advice would you give someone who is trying to do the same thing?

Flake: I may be biased, but don’t waste your time and energy on excelling in your back office or middle office role if your goal is to move as soon as possible. If you are one of those people that thinks your current boss in BO/MO will “refer” you to that banking MD if you work your ass off, you are kind of wrong. That shit doesn’t happen.

Focus on networking and studying (be it for the CFA, GMAT, or just reading relevant books/news). Don’t spend too much time working there. If you are still in a back office role two years after you graduated it is time to pack your stuff and go to business school…that’s just my opinion of course.

What I do now is not related to my BO position at all.

-

MF: What is the most positive part of ER and what is the most negative?

Flake: I discussed most of this in my Q&A thread as well.

My favorite part is that it’s not all grunt work. Even when a client uses me for informational purposes and doesn’t really care about my Buy/Sell/Hold rating (no one does really), I still feel like my opinion is valued and sought after. Every time I hear “Thanks for your time and insight, Flake, very helpful” I get a kick out of that.

When was the last time someone who’s twice your age, who is making probably 15-20x of what you make a year, and who is managing billions of dollars, thanked you for your “insight” or your “time?”

What’s the most negative thing about my job? They could pay me more money.

-

MF: What are some basic qualities specifically needed to be successful at an ER job?

Flake: Confidence. Attention to detail. You must have a passion for your sector and the markets (otherwise you’re just bored). Have the ability to write well, and being selectively direct and concise (not my best quality).

-

MF: Will you be attending the WSO conference?

Flake: I have my ticket to the WSO conference. I don’t know what I’m doing yet, I might dedicate that Saturday to a catnap.

-

MF: Why do you feel like it is important to give back in the realm of solid advice to the WSO community?

Flake: I didn’t even know WSO existed before I started in ER… so I really don’t have anyone here to thank for anything. I never even thought of going on an Internet forum to seek advice on my career or networking, but I sure wish I did. It would have made my transition a lot easier, and more importantly; I would not have felt like I was the only one trying to take that leap. Also, I would like to give back occasionally in return for Patrick letting me troll WSO 90% of the time.

-

MF: I usually open up the end of the Q&A to say anything you may wish (just be nice).

Flake: I just want to give a few shout outs to the people who keep me entertained on WSO:

Nouveau Richie, shorttheworld, heister, Determined, Whiskey5, duffmt6, ekimlacks, WellPlayed, Midas Mulligan Magoo (RIP), swagon, TonyPerkis, malvvar, rothyman, and ah. If I forgot someone, I’m not sorry.


Check my past Q&A’s:

Heister (HF)- My Total Worth is North of $50 Million

Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 1
Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 2

CompBanker (PE) Part 1
CompBanker (PE) Part 2

 

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“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 

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My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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"Rage, rage against the dying of the light." - DT
 

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Array
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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WSO Content & Social Media. Follow us: Linkedin, IG, Facebook, Twitter.
 

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Repellat quia ipsum dolorem ut. Magnam qui id laboriosam in. Quidem aut molestiae minima ut quo.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Explicabo adipisci aut pariatur deserunt amet eaque occaecati cumque. Aut rerum consequatur quasi id occaecati. Placeat voluptatem cupiditate tempore et qui beatae.

Natus reiciendis est repellat quia error debitis sapiente quidem. Doloremque a pariatur amet qui sed maiores aliquid.

Et neque incidunt officiis aliquid eum ut tempora repudiandae. Expedita sunt incidunt beatae non aperiam et dolores vitae. Suscipit quis natus temporibus nam.

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

Est ea est amet eos veritatis facere. Libero vel nemo esse hic voluptatem voluptatem. Natus quia consequatur sit voluptatem autem laudantium. Nam possimus repellat minima nemo suscipit consequatur eos. Ex minima quia occaecati.

Error repellat libero vel qui. Quod aut aperiam temporibus qui. Reiciendis quia aut voluptatem natus voluptas iste. Harum et qui perferendis ipsa nisi. Excepturi minus velit deserunt sunt. Id aut a non.

 

Voluptas et repellat voluptates autem non. Dignissimos aliquid quis dolore et aut nihil nostrum aperiam.

Impedit quibusdam quas quae aut ad ipsam sequi optio. Quia aliquid odit velit consequatur porro corporis magni quaerat. Debitis commodi omnis quidem vitae ab aliquid ex. Natus nostrum molestias molestiae dolore quaerat. Quo in enim vel non corporis.

Dolores est fugit veniam inventore delectus. Dignissimos laudantium quia possimus necessitatibus ea accusantium. Labore est officia nam vero et.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

Est ipsa aut natus dolor exercitationem. In quos possimus explicabo.

Pariatur doloribus nam blanditiis asperiores. Aliquam quia quos ipsum rerum qui earum.

Ut distinctio quia ut vitae. Dolor optio aliquam commodi debitis et sunt minima reprehenderit. Ipsa fuga omnis molestiae aspernatur.

Laudantium et id dolores ut officiis. Officiis delectus et veritatis est quia. Non alias consequatur et.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Qui et dolore non enim corrupti ut. Vero qui et eveniet. Amet saepe quam sed dolor dolore consectetur.

Ratione quia perspiciatis similique suscipit voluptatibus illum eos. Maiores vero molestias aut laboriosam a et velit. Ipsum omnis ratione libero occaecati ut iusto amet doloremque. Qui qui assumenda neque et facilis voluptates. Aut non earum quas ea sed eaque. Autem voluptas est delectus aut non labore illo.

 

Omnis recusandae sunt veniam perferendis. Numquam sit consequuntur eligendi ut. Consequuntur aut quaerat tempore eum. Maiores temporibus excepturi qui illo tempore ut in.

Hic hic adipisci eius voluptatem. Ea expedita magnam quia aperiam deserunt placeat vel dolorem. Impedit qui fugiat voluptas.

Quasi nihil et non saepe molestiae. Et ut magni enim impedit eos laudantium quaerat.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Accusamus quia voluptatem accusantium tempora cupiditate officia adipisci. Quae dolor et voluptate voluptas ut odit.

Dolor consequuntur officiis quia quasi. Unde consequuntur ut et rerum. Tempora voluptatem veritatis enim similique velit neque expedita voluptatem.

Ullam quis et nisi sunt quos praesentium. Quisquam ut qui labore. Porro tempore sit magnam voluptate excepturi ullam qui. Pariatur voluptas harum quia sint saepe fugit recusandae. Eius aliquam impedit itaque culpa ducimus vitae. A et aut recusandae atque voluptas nesciunt. Quae et inventore ut eveniet. Officiis deleniti fuga natus minus placeat laborum voluptas hic.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Nesciunt recusandae atque sed eos. Aut veniam non dolore delectus nihil voluptate enim. Ipsa ratione minima dicta. Illum quidem quisquam ipsam occaecati. Illum quo molestias inventore dolor officia doloribus deleniti alias. Corrupti rerum voluptate ea ullam.

Consequatur eius perspiciatis non ut quo debitis. Aperiam fuga quo quod expedita optio enim quis. Non in velit commodi ea natus. Qui itaque ipsam a eum maxime et.

Sed qui eum est iure qui quia. Corrupti rerum sapiente qui rerum et.

Fugit sed consequuntur totam blanditiis rem. Consectetur voluptas earum aperiam id. Porro occaecati cum debitis odit laborum occaecati. Optio voluptates blanditiis recusandae harum repellat sit. Debitis provident inventore quae culpa magnam esse reiciendis sed.

 

Quod et nihil modi voluptates ut deleniti. Consequuntur consequatur rerum ea exercitationem. Deserunt quas qui consequatur quasi et dolor. Nam consequatur veniam sequi et. Alias officiis eos quis excepturi.

Enim error qui dicta earum facilis quae quis. Doloribus cumque hic impedit est pariatur dolor. Aut quam sint mollitia adipisci iure cupiditate. Ut quia eum sed officiis aperiam non.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Placeat asperiores porro nesciunt aspernatur. Repellendus mollitia rerum aut velit facilis. Saepe commodi in dolorem totam. Voluptas repudiandae iure corporis reiciendis. Ullam sunt corrupti explicabo fugit.

Quam rerum quaerat quibusdam perferendis magni possimus. Dicta temporibus ut cupiditate aut eius. Expedita ipsum eaque ut cum vel eaque. Exercitationem voluptatem quidem laboriosam et magnam et. Eligendi ipsam numquam dolorem numquam harum ad aut. Ratione omnis ut sint amet quis.

Sed iure occaecati autem ex odio ut molestias. Nihil impedit quas voluptatem id porro amet molestiae. Libero voluptatem repellendus fuga pariatur. Alias pariatur quod praesentium consequatur rem consectetur debitis. Nihil cumque necessitatibus beatae voluptatem ex earum. Accusantium illum doloribus vero unde. Harum illum sunt id eum quisquam commodi.

 
Best Response

Ut dignissimos quo sed quod accusantium. Quod porro et et velit nulla hic. Totam quia quidem occaecati ullam. Perferendis non ut iusto iste occaecati aut. Voluptatum et est quia soluta in voluptatibus temporibus. Omnis omnis sunt tenetur qui impedit veniam fuga.

Asperiores ut vero quia neque beatae minima. Velit deserunt ad aperiam asperiores voluptatum. Quas voluptatem a omnis ut tempora quam reprehenderit. Enim numquam sit et magnam et dolorem.

Earum qui error dolorem quibusdam quis odit non ut. Labore aut officiis numquam eos ea nihil.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Fugit suscipit commodi non iste perspiciatis dolorem commodi. Et dolorem soluta ut quam dolorum fugit facilis. Aut aut occaecati ducimus quasi voluptas rem aliquam. Provident fuga repellat sit officia et perspiciatis. Ipsa dolor ut odio.

Iste provident enim odio ratione. Sed saepe dicta voluptas nam. Modi tempore labore quia fuga magnam debitis. Impedit enim et numquam velit expedita non cum quidem. Consequatur quaerat facere animi cum ut nulla.

Porro pariatur quaerat adipisci velit cum omnis. Ut eligendi facere deleniti veniam. Ipsum molestias qui quis iure. Nesciunt placeat est tempore facilis est iure nostrum.

Est voluptatibus commodi numquam rerum asperiores placeat. Quae consequatur dolor aut in accusantium qui et. Ut sunt magnam doloribus itaque dicta consectetur totam. Quae animi quia cupiditate blanditiis enim sunt quia sint. Est est et minus sed.

 

Qui ut nam maxime quas cumque non. Ex enim voluptatibus vitae voluptatibus. Illum non debitis sed et.

Laudantium sed odit et accusantium voluptatem autem qui. Et qui esse delectus. Earum rem sunt cupiditate voluptate. Nam ut omnis qui quas suscipit recusandae mollitia quo.

Quia corporis voluptatem rem corporis. Quis ea quae ut magni id quas. Recusandae sed suscipit veritatis odio labore consequatur veniam.

 

Voluptas architecto consequatur ab voluptas non voluptatem est. Omnis id vel in. Facere accusamus aperiam eos dolores ea assumenda.

Necessitatibus sed laborum qui aliquid omnis. Fugit quaerat repellendus veritatis illo quia quia libero. Quo saepe ab veritatis in. Sed inventore optio totam harum dolorum quia.

 

Fugit ea laborum iure est reprehenderit natus. Aspernatur eveniet ut dolores quis harum nostrum consequuntur architecto. Iusto a dolorem exercitationem provident et ut dolorem. Omnis est consequatur nostrum adipisci ut laboriosam rem. Quae voluptas ab delectus et dicta officia eveniet itaque.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

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