Asset Management Analyst considering business school
Hi everyone,
I am currently a 3rd year analyst at Blackrock quant making about 120K all in. My ultimate goal is to get into GSAM quant. I almost made it last summer when they told me that I was the best candidate after final round interviews, but they said they were freezing hiring in the group. They unfroze hiring earlier this year but apparently there were a bunch of new internal transfer candidates this time and I didn't get the job. I'm seriously considering going to a top 5 business school to try to get in that way.
My stats are as follows: top 10 undergrad engineering, 3.9-4.0 GPA, 750+ GMAT, passed CFA level 2, 3 years work experience
I would like to know the answer to any of the following questions. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance.
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How much better is GSAM quant than Blackrock quant, in terms of prestige, comp, long term career paths, etc. (bottom line is it even worth it to try so hard to get in)
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Is going to a top 5 business school the best way to get in, or should I wait for the CFA and then apply again
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In your opinion, what's the best way to find out about openings at GSAM, other than just keep hounding the recruiters once every few months. As far as I know, they don't post openings online, unlike MS or Citi.
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Aside from trying to get into GSAM, do you feel that it is worth it for someone in my position to go back to business school in hopes of improving my career prospects in the asset management industry
If you're a 3rd year analyst at Blackrock, I think you should try to leverage the contacts you have made (and reach into the alumni pool at your ugrad) to make the switch. You said yourself that you were on the cusp of being accepted in GSAM. Considering you are interested in staying in AM and you already work for a very good employer, I don't think you need to spend $150k+ on b school. I think a better option for you is to finish the CFA, and keep in touch with the people you've met at Goldman already. Considering you were a top candidate, I am assuming that you've met at least a few people who already work for the group. If you're not planning to make a career switch, or need to overhaul your current path, I don't think it's worth it. You are doing very well for yourself right now, and since B school won't guarantee placement at GS, I think you are going to come out 2 years later, with less money in your bank account, more debt, and in the same boat as now. I don't think the incremental benefit (if any) gained by going B school (considering your path of interest and goals) justifies spending $150k.
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Thanks BankonBanking, I appreciate your advice. I would like to ask a few followup questions.
Currently there is very little upward momentum in my group and it is very difficult to get promoted. For example, there is one dude in my group who is almost 40 and is an 8th year associate. He does make more money than I do but I think only around 200K. He has repeatly requested to either be promoted, transferred, or laid off (because he is in line for over a year's worth of severance, but hasn't been able to get any of those 3. I seriously do not want to get stuck like this dude. I'm wondering if this new information would change your recommendation.
As a followup to question 1, another strategy I am thinking about using is spending the next 3 months applying to business schools and then spending the time between October 2009 and August 2010(I assume that's when business school starts) trying as hard as possible to get into GSAM. If I get into GSAM or get promoted at Blackrock, then I will forgo business school. If not, I will consider business school. Please let me know what you think about this plan.
If I get into Harvard or Stanford, would that change your recommendation.
Thanks again for all of your help.
That was actually one of my follow-up questions; whether promotions are common or uncommon in your group, and seeing as they are uncommon, I think that adds a bit of a twist to the mix. Assuming that you only either want to work at GSAM or be promoted at Blackrock (in other words, other top AM firms are of little interest to you), I like point 2 in your response.
Based on your first point, I would definitely consider B school (again, considering you are only interested in 2 employers - current and GSAM), but only the top few players, otherwise you might end up in a worse position than you are currently in. Regarding point 2 again, I like this idea in the sense that it leaves you with options. The problem here lies in the fact that you will not have as much time to dedicate to your essays for H/S (possibly W) if you are working towards either earning a promotion within BRock or being recruited into GSAM. If you cannot give your essays your all (also, I'm not sure if you've already taken the GMAT or not, but you will want to do well in it considering your profession), it may be very difficult for you to gain admission (as if it weren't difficult either way) into those top schools. If you can manage it, great, otherwise something may have to suffer, and at that point, it is a judgment call on you.
Lastly, if you earn admission to H/S, I think it will be tough for you to turn it down unless you are accepted into GSAM. While earning a promotion at BRock would be great, I don't think it's what you really want, and turning down H/S may permanently shut the door, considering you would probably wait several years to reapply, and at that point, who knows. Backing up for a second though, you haven't earned admission to either school, been promoted, or been recruited by GSAM yet, so we are absolutely putting the cart before the horse. I think your 2nd point is a good one, and you need to figure out how best to tackle it because if you make that move, you don't want anything to suffer - otherwise, you may end up losing everything.
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Thanks a lot BankonBanking. You gave me a lot to think about. With regard to option 2, I got a 750+ (6 writing), so the GMAT is out of the way. I undertand the essays are tough, and I am prepared to spend as much time as needed on the essays. My reasoning is as follows, please let me know whether you agree or not.
The way I look at it, if somehow I get an interview with GSAM in the next 3 month, I will drop everything and prepare for the interview. Otherwise, I should focus on the essays. I've been keeping in touch with some contacts at GSAM, so I am not sure what more I can do other than wait for opportunities to open up. Please let me know if you think I should be more proactive or if you have any tips on being more proactive.
With regard to the promotion, I honestly believe it's a long shot to get promoted in the next 12 months. As I mentioned earlier, the time in grade is long and I think I would have to do absolutely awesome just to get considered for promotion. To put it in perspective, out of 50 to 60 analysts and associates in my group, I've only seen 2 people get promoted in 3 years or less. In addition, it's not uncommon for even Stanford Phds or Chicago MBAs to get stuck at the associate level for more than 5 years. Unless something changes to give me hope, I plan to do just above average work, which I think I can manage while working hard on the essays.
I agree with you that unless I go to a top school, I can end up in a much worse situation. That's why I think I should only apply to H/S/W. I know it's going to be tough, but I believe that with my stats, I at least have a decent shot. Feel free to let me know what you think about my chances, since that could affect my decision as well.
Thanks again for all of your help.
Alright, so GMAT is spot on, so no worries there, check. Taking your points one at a time...
I like this plan to a degree, but again, you've been down the interview path before and although that time extraordinary circumstances stopped you, an interview is not a sure thing, so just because you get an interview, I would definitely NOT drop everything regarding B school (until you get the offer). Honestly, if you get the interview, you may have to put the essays on hold for a week or a few (if there is time), or you will just have to spread yourself a little thinner (think, a sheet of paper).
I just thought the associate to VP promotion was difficult, I didn't realize you can stay an analyst for years as well. In that case, your plan to work just above average should be fine, and should allow you to fly under the radar for a few months while you focus on the essays. I think again, you really have to be smart with your time as you will absolutely be spreading yourself thin.
I like your school choices (then again, who wouldn't, they are only the top 3 programs in the world). It will definitely be very tough, but in order to answer whether you have a shot, I will need to know more info. Your work experience is good, your GMAT is spot on, but what about ECs (including volunteering), leadership and initiative (both in and out of work), your GPA, and do you think you can get strong letters of rec from your bosses (considering they won't even know you are applying) and, if not, who do you plan to go to for the letters? Quick glance, the stats that I know say you've got a shot, but without knowing the rest, I can't really say.
You can feel free to email me through my site if you don't want to put that info on this forum as I know some people are a little touchy when it comes to the more personal details (understandably).
IBanker www.BankonBanking.com Articles, News, Advice and More Break Into Investment Banking
What do AM analysts actually do on a daily basis? We all know that IBD analysts do pitchbooks, models, and administrative BS- and the exit opportunities are virtually limitless. But Asset Management seems to get a lot less attention in general, so I was wondering if you could provide some insight about what AM analysts really do, the potential exit opps, and perhaps compare and contrast it with banking on other factors. Thx in advance.
Hey blackrock2005,
What's the promotion situation like at GSAM? Is it better or worse than Blackrock? Also, what will happen with the quant dept at Blackrock since Blackrock will be acquiring BGI? BGI has a well regarded quant dept as well.
Regarding the costs of B-school, you are also forgoing the $240K+ you would have made by staying at Blackrock. Would you pay $400K to GSAM to guarantee a job there?
According to Wharton's 2008 Placement report, Goldman Sachs hired 29 people. That's out of 811 graduates. I'm pretty sure more than 29 people (3.58%!!) applied for jobs at Goldman Sachs. So getting a top MBA is not a guarantee of a job at GS.
That being said, I've been in the asset management industry for a long time and right now I'm having regrets about never getting an MBA. I got my undergrad engineering degree and CFA and just stuck it out. I feel like I'm in a rut now. A lot of quants have masters degrees. More have Phds. I heard that BGI mainly hires Phds for its quant dept.
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