It seems ever since 2008, the finance industry has loosened up their dress codes dramatically. No longer are power suits and red ties the norm. Now it seems to be all Midtown Uniforms with gray Patagonia vests. What are your opinions on the loosening of office dress codes?
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Loosened dress codes make me almost as angry as kids on my lawn.
This puts Finance several decades behind the curve: most of Corporate America started to shift from Suit & Tie to Business Casual in the '90s. While it's normal for a rigidly hierarchical industry to maintain fashion discipline, there's a risk of being disconnected from your clients. Which of these guys is "Dressed for Success?"
Current mix for US full-time males is ~10% Suit & Tie, 20% Business Casual, 50% casual, 20% uniform (not just military/law enforcement: think of the guys in blue shirts at Best Buy)
idk if Zuck is the best role model here bro. I'm gravitating more towards martin sheen from west wing or the guy in the top right.
suit & tie = run a country, have the most interesting son in the world as well as a son who was in mighty ducks
casual = be hated by all of your neighbors in hawaii, lose trust of millions (if not billions) of citizens, be subpoenaed by various parliaments and governments for misconduct, have an aura of narpyness around you at all times
yeah I'll keep my tie on
thebrofessor You're making it too personal: the images are examples of dress codes, not individual role models.
Here's the point: up through the Mad Men era, Corporate America had a unified dress code: men who ran companies and the country wore Suit & Tie, and worker bees who wanted to emulate them went to work in their grey flannel suits.
Today, only a small fraction of working men still wear the Suit & Tie Uniform. Outside these settings, some groups no longer view the Uniform as a market of authority, they view it a sign of cultural cluelessness.
Granted, they may cut some slack for "those Suits from Wall Street" if that's how you want to roll, but you're clearly setting yourself apart.
https://www.businessinsider.com/peter-thiel-hates-suits-2014-8
apologies my sarcasm wasn't more obvious, I'm 50% serious contributor/50% troll. a fake president from west wing is not a role model for me.
I get the trend to more casual settings, but certain industries do command a more dressed up look. I look at it like this: for my job, what's the upside/downside of going casual? if I'm presenting to a large potential client and asking them to entrust millions of dollars with me, do they want to see me looking casual? absofuckinglutely not, at least outside of california and florida (even florida is a stretch). my business is a serious one, so people want the perception of me taking myself seriously (though my WSO history proves otherwise), and there's no better way to make a first impression than to come in dressed to the 9s. in my business, it's expected.
now, does that mean I go to a client I have in SF who I've known for 10y in my best suit? nope. I lose the tie and dress more like the guy in the upper right, but I think a blanket assumption that anyone who wears suit & tie is culturally clueless is.....well.....clueless.
sorry bro terrabrova, agree to disagree.
I'm personally a fan. Wearing a suit makes a lot of sense if in person client interactions are a part of your day to day. I do feel a lot more confident wearing a suit when interacting with clients or am at a conference. Day to day in the office where I'm sitting at my desk and only seeing people internally? I really do not get anything out of wearing a suit. I like the balance where a suit is encouraged and appropriate in certain situations but completely unnecessary in others. I also like the days where I can show up in a t-shirt and jeans, put on headphones and just focus. I think the contrast makes the days that you are wearing a suit more special/unique so you're more energetic for whatever important thing you are doing that day. Otherwise, wearing a suit every day just seems exhausting.
I'm of two minds on this. While at home, I'm essentially a nudist, so I can appreciate wanting to be comfortable. But I'm only really home to sleep during the week, and I like to sleep naked because I roll around enough that pajamas get uncomfortably tight and disheveled. And it's not like I'm going to put pants on to take a piss in the middle of the night or grab a bottle of water from the refrigerator, so I'd say I'm naked at home 90% of the time or more.
At the office, I have to be fully clothed about 99% of the time. I've been pushing to lower those figures, but we're just not there yet as a society. My office fortunately has floor to ceiling stalls so no one can see what you're doing in there, and I've taken full-naked shits a couple of times just because I felt like it. Otherwise, I'd say the number should be as close to 100% as possible.
I explain this because I like being comfortable as much as anyone (probably more) and still think a suit and tie is important for a number of reasons that trump my comfort. Firstly, people treat you differently when you're wearing a suit. You don't see Mark Zuckerberg showing up to Congress in a hoodie, do you? And as his company begins to get regulated, he's going to be adopting a more mature look as part of his re-imaging and PR campaign. Why? People really do perceive you differently in a suit, and when it matters he deigns to don one for the good of his company.
Secondly, when you first start your career, you act differently when wearing a suit. You might not think so, but you do. In aggregate, you do. It's essentially a uniform--a point I have argued to my accountants for years to no avail. You don't generally ensconce yourself in Savile Row when meeting friends, so wearing a suit alters your mentality slightly. You see this all the time in people unaccustomed to formal wear. Put a pleb in a tux and he acts a bit better. It's awkward because he's not used to acting that way, but it's a small step towards professionalism.
Finally, once you can afford some decent suits, they're actually pretty comfortable. My suits are objectively more comfortable than my jeans, and I buy nice jeans. I guess an un-tucked shirt is more comfortable than one that's tucked in, but it's definitely sloppier. It's a small amount of extra effort to tuck in your shirt, and if you're not regularly wearing a blazer to work, you can't go to a lot of private clubs for drinks after work without going home to change. I don't foresee the Core club altering its dress code in the near future, and you really don't want to miss out on those invitations early in your career just because you're under-dressed.
One final thought--my father just retired from his second career and greatly misses wearing a suit everyday. It made him feel like he was part of society in a way he no longer does. One day, you won't have to do it anymore. Are you really going to look back fondly on all those times you wore sneakers and Birddogs to the office?