Regretting taking MM HF offer out of undergrad
Won’t specify but I’m incoming at Citadel CAP / P72 Academy for SA25 and am regretting taking the offer over an EB for several reasons.
I’ll admit, I was a bit overconfident in my abilities when I took the offer, and realistically, the odds are that I’ll be out of a job 2-4 years after undergrad. After that, I can either bounce around pod shops for a few years before being forced out of the industry or gun for the 1% chance of breaking into a LO/SM.
I don’t even like the way that MMs trade, and I’d much rather be in a longer term fundamentals oriented research role at an SM/LO. I don’t mind the paycut, I value longevity much more.
What can I do now to pivot into an SM? Is my only hope to try and re-recruit for IB FT?
bumping for you, hope you make it
Ngl you know nothing, all this sounds like you just read too much WSO. Who knows what happens to those SM or LO in 5-10yrs. Yes the firm can be big driver of your learning but at the end of the day you drive your own growth. At least try out what you signed up for before assuming you’ll churn within 2-4yrs. Could work out great for you. Also most LO churn you out in 2-4yrs so even in that case you’re no worse off.
I do agree that I formed many of my opinions regarding pods through WSO, but I've also networked with pod analysts and heard very similar things. Pods don't really provide you with transferrable skills afaik so I'm assuming that the longer I stay at a pod, the harder it'll be to pivot elsewhere; hence why I want to try and re-recruit for FT to preserve optionality.
Responding to your point regarding LOs and SMs, I have heard similar things regarding most large LOs (less attractive, fee compression, etc), but I was mainly referring to smaller 'elite' LOs (i.e select equity, ruane). I feel like these, along with traditional SMs, would be a far more attractive seat than a pod due to the longevity in the industry that they offer and short term job security.
Maybe I'm overestimating how much easier it is to survive at an SM, but the odds are that the majority of people at pods get churned out fairly quickly. I'd hate to be 25-26 years old getting fired from a pod with my only work exp. being in big 4 MMs w/o any transferrable skills.
SEG great example, RCG not so much
Not to be harsh, but for someone who did an internship at one of the pods, you clearly learned very little about this business and let the WSO view influence your own view. I don't understand this forum's obsession with pod vs SM analyst. From your perspective as an analyst, it's the same job. I've been in the pod world for years, and have friends at every fund - SM pod LO FO whatever. We ask the same questions, do the same work, think the same way. Some are better than others, some think a LITTLE differently than others, but all understand that make money, focus on what matters -- everyone that's good knows what matters for any given name.
And SEG and RCG are not elite LOs, no one thinks of those as elite seats. That's just an intern/WSO concept. The large, private LOs are the best LO seats. And no transferrable skills? What? I've seen people go from pod to LO or pod to tiger cub or other way around many, many, many times. And not 6 months into the job - I've seen people with 7 years of pod experience go to tiger cubs. Not sure what you're talking about. If you can make $, there's a seat for you. And if you can make $, why on earth would you leave the pod seat? If you can't make $, you're pushed out of the industry, regardless of SM pod LO.
I think you have very limited knowledge of the SM world if you’ve seen people go from pod to tiger cub “many, many, many times”. I can count on one hand the number of ex pod analysts currently at the large / mid size tiger cubs. Please point out the pod analysts with 7 YOE that you see making the jump, as you said.
Saying you see people at SMs go to pods is also disingenuous. These people are given multi-million dollar guarantees to make the transition and are looking to cash out.
Can check linkedin and this is among my network (keep in mind not everyone has linkedin or updates their linkedin...). And obviously not naming anyone + several are still on their non-competes, but I know at least 1 person at almost all of the large / mid size tiger cubs that came from pod backgrounds. And you will see a pretty big uptick here in the next few months as people wrap up their non-competes. This trend of SMs poaching pod analysts is real and it picked up 12 months ago, so watch over the next few months. Also, I've gotten inbound from all these funds and many guys I know in pod land do as well - Coatue, D1, Anomaly, Maverick, more SMs, and all the big LOs. If I wanted to make that jump, I easily could. People overstate the difficulty of this move. The truth is if you've made a name for yourself in your coverage, you will get inbound it's that simple - people want to hire smart guys, not always some random kid from Blackstone.
Am quite satisfied with current seat and obviously not looking to join a SM.
This is not true, I even confirmed with LinkedIn to double check. I work at a fund very similar to the four you mentioned and have friends across the mid to large SM funds.
There is not a single IP currently at Coatue, Maverick, or D1 that came from a big 4 pod background. There is only 1 example at Anomaly, but that person spent >2 years in a P72 pod. Would love some examples of pod investors with 7+ YOE that commonly make the jump as you say (“many, many, many times” in your words). Hint: they don’t exist.
I’ve worked at two of the top 5 LO’s (one as an associate, now an analyst), and neither has any former MM people as analysts or even associates. My current firm wouldn’t even interview a pod analyst
I work at a pod - to be doubting yourself this much before you even intern is a serious red flag on self-confidence, you have to be able to bounce back from draws/blow-ups or you’ll never survive. This applies to all HFs, are you sure you actually want a risk-taking role? Recruiting back to banking and doing PE sounds like the better personality fit to be frank
This is such a classic WSO answer to be honest... it's very reasonable to have reservations about early (or even mid/late) career decisions and OP would be foolish to look at a specific role as categorically amazing. If anything, running blindly into a new gig is more a testament to a lack of fit (or understanding of what you're getting into).
OP is clearly high achieving if he/she nailed a C/P SA25 role .
So you're saying that having some doubt is a good thing?
Bro you are a little too red-pilled by this forum. You’re not absolutely fucked if you blow out of the industry by the time you’re 26. Certainly believing that that’s gonna be the case isn’t going to help you. It is way too early for you to be worrying about this shit. There is more to life than HF vs LO man. You will get a better sense for what you can do once you’re in the industry. Stop being a pussy and enjoy college. Time to log off of this site as well. Good luck
I think if you spoke to more people in the industry you’d realise that long-term churn, ie how many people fail to make it to a senior position with $20m+ career earnings potential, is similar across basically all of FO finance and definitely feels similar because the absolute % that do make it is so small anyway. There are only so many partnership seats at the top SMs and just because you are less likely to get fired in any given year does not make it more likely you actually get to the top - I’m honestly not sure if SM or MM actually has better odds of getting you into a $20m+ career earnings seat these days, the incremental such seats are mostly in MM but also more people joining MM at the junior level so who knows. Imo it comes down to (i) which job you can do better and (ii) do you want to have a shorter or longer runway - joining MM out of undergrad you will know by early-30s because you will either be churned out or be a PM.
I think you will be fine. Banking can be a pretty gruesome experience. Good SMs (the ones you want to be at anyway) will increasingly consider pods people. LOs --- prob need to do MBAs anyway or be in pod seat long enough to build sector expertise. The real downside w/ pods is uncertainty of being placed on a good vs shit team. Try your best to go to a good team after CAP / academy and you will be fine
How is bro so pessimistic even before starting his internship lol. In all seriousness, if you think you aren’t going to like the job and that it won’t give you the career prospects you want, you should obviously rerecruit. But as the other people on this thread have said, I think you underestimate what you can get out of a seat at a MMHF (at least speaking anecdotally). I’m sure you’re a bright young guy seeing you were able to land that position so I don’t think you should be doubting your skills so early on — most kids in college rarely know anything about the job before going into it. Anyways, hope you’re able to land wherever you’re gunning for
Think long-term about your own career - where do you think the generational wealth-creating seats will be in 10 years’ time? I don’t think anyone can say for sure if the answer is pods or not but it certainly does feel like the balance is shifting from the ‘large SM spinout’ to the ‘10-15 yoe/5-7 years of track record pod PM guarantee/spinout’. This is the only thing that matters in the SM vs MM career imo and not discussed enough, any perspectives from the LP/BD sides would be helpful.
You’re psyching yourself out. Put in a lot of (the correct) effort for at least 2 years and see how well you do. No way to know how you’ll perform until you’re in the true working environment. Internships are just a vignette and you’re unavoidably sheltered. Yeah if you hate it or flame out that’s understandable but don’t quit before you start. Take this year to relax and mentally prepare yourself for a job where grinding your head against the wall will actually fuck you over and you need to go Bezos zen mode and make a sequence of many good decisions and know when to let things alone. Best of luck you got it man.
Your young ull be aite
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