Coming from the "SM to Running Capital?" thread (https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/hedge-fund/…), I am in a "similar" situation (please, note the quotation marks) and would like some advice.
Currently 4+ years at a SM L/S HF. PM has worked in 3 of the usual big multistrat platforms so the investment style is pretty similar.
I am now looking for a new role and I am not sure which route to follow. I consider 3 options.
1) Look for a senior analyst role in a pod. My goal is to be a PM in at most 5 years so this sounds like a good platform to get the opportunity of running money.
2) Go work for a SM. Pros: I am receiving way more calls for this than calls from pods. Cons: close to impossible running money?
3) Probably the least likely. Triying to get a pod PM role. I a couple of colleagues are telling me to follow this route as other analysts at my firm got PM seats. Main difference is that these guys have 8+ years of analyst experience vs me 4.5+ ( I did non equity finance stuff before MBA).
My concerns:
- Are the mid-long term career prospects worse in route 2 vs route 1?
- If I get a seat in route 2, will those be "wasted years" as I would continue to be an analyst? Would it be more difficult to get a pod analyst/PM role in, lets say, 4 years?
- Should I just forget about SM roles and focus on getting a pod analyst role?
- Should I just forget about even considering route 3?
Thanks in advance,
If you are confident you can make money, shoot for a pod PM gig and worst case they tell you is to wait a bit.
My trajectory (also a career switcher post MBA) was SS ER, then SM for 3 years, then Senior Analyst at a pod for 3 years, and now PM at a pod. I had a track record running a mkt neutral sleeve, and it was fairly easy.
In your position they might slot you in as a senior analyst or a PM development program, but not impossible they would consider you for PM. Might depend on the shop.
Seems like MM Sr analyst with a book is the best path. If you do we'll, you'll be on path to PM. Make sure to tell them explicitly that you want your own book/carve.
Will try to address concerns as you've listed them but some already great takes above:
1) Depends. Forum here likes to try and suggest which is better (SM vs. MM) all the time but fact of the matter is it is entirely dependent on both your career goals/aspirations, the fund itself, and the PM/team/performance... there's plenty of folks I know at that mid-range+ level (> 5 yrs but 10 yrs) doing extraordinarily well as a sr analyst/sector head at their respective SMs.... participate in the economics, could probably leave for a PM seat at any point... fund has decent track records... again it's entirely anecdotal, but the idea being that those folks found SM seats that had real staying power w/ decent enough track records and an ability to climb up the ranks. Eventually some of them may opt to move to a MM PM seat to manage capital directly but again just depends on their ambitions... can make good $ at a scaled firm as a sr member of the investment team.... but yes if your goal is to 100% ensure you're running capital as a PM in 5-years then it probably makes sense to be at a pod to grow into it with the exception being that some pods are notorious for NOT giving their analysts capital or promotions
2) Again, somewhat depends. If you can point to any semblance of a track record, you're probably fine but I think the idea being that in 5 years if you're not a "sector head" managing a team more or less then you probably will require 1-2 yrs as a senior analyst at a MM before getting to PM. Very seldom do you see non-risk taking SM folks who aren't the most senior members of their investment teams in a respective sector get a shot right away to be a PM. That said as we all know plenty of MMs do give their sr analysts capital to manage...
3) More or less is nuanced around what you prefer... the SM folks I know prefer the SMs entirely due to the style and partially b/c of WLB and comp. If you're at a sizable SM with economics you can make just as much if not more than pod counterparts.... it's just a numbers game and the bulk of pods at MMs have enough capital to pay their analysts really well, performance-permitting... but I would say that a sr analyst seat at a pod under a REALLY strong PM likely trumps the same seat at a SM unless you want to stay at said SM for a longer haul/have chance to become very senior member of investment team
4) No.... i wouldn't bank on it as base case expectation but assuming you have a track record you can sort of point to and say "hey this is roughly my PNL" then people will take you seriously enough for the role... just think sometimes it boils down to wanting EITHER A) prior PM experience or B) enough YoE in a sector at a senior enough level to warrant getting capital
Thanks for posting. I am in a similar boat. The first two comments make it seem like getting a role at a MM will be a possibility.
Question here is, what type of probability do you put on each of these options? and how does that affect where you apply your efforts?
I may have just lost that "anything is possible" I used to have but I sort of began looking at compensation at various roles and probability of getting to that position...when I did this, I started thinking I need to consider all other career paths, such as ones with a deal or sales based pay structure.
Think pod analyst. Try to get to one of the big 2-3 platforms. Find a PM that's generous, gives chunky carves, and has been around a while/has done well. Get a specific deal with the PM (ie target $XXXm of gross $s deployed by 3 months, $YYYm by 6 months, $ZZZm by 12 months. Or whatever $vol budget that implies. $GMV x roGMV x %payout). Hire a junior.
Do it long enough (and do it well - aka 9 figure PnL as an analyst over X years) and you'll have a track record such that you can spin-out at your existing platform, or another platform will guarantee you 8 figures to be a PM there.
Have 5 friends who did this analyst/carve path 3-5 years ago, and all became PMs in the last year or are planning to spin in 2H24.
Not OP but I'm a tiger cub analyst that wants to switch to MM. What size books have you heard people starting with? Typical % PnL?
Why do you wanna move to a MM?
Entirely dependent on PM and what names you’ll cover & how much you’re already comfortable with risk. Have gotten inbounds on these like 200-400m w/ hsd/LDD but I did have a sleeve at MM before SM so I dunno if that’s representative. If don’t already know the good PMs in your sector, not I’m not sure this jump is actually available to the extent people say on here. If you do, IMO it’s a pretty efficient market - considering the ramp up time, fairly high odds of bad luck blow-outs but also higher pay, more autonomy, line-of-sight to progression. Grass is always greener.
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