Super Pods Question (Throughline, Longaeva)
Can real PMs/experienced analysts in the MM world please share their thoughts on these large, grouped pods?
I just cannot understand how the top MMs can just keep adding pods trading the same stocks, and now With the same overarching manager? . I know this has always been the case, but the unwind days are so severe sometimes and exhibit such ridiculous and nonsensical moves that I truly question how much more factor neutral capital some of these stocks can take, the volatility is seriously head scratching. There is also an absolute loss of context of the forest for the trees on some of the stock narratives thrown around, no horizon in books but also in people’s heads…
Put simply, for example how can Throughline have one CIO, but 8+ people covering the exact same stocks, each running a decent sized book. The correlation must be insane for v large aggregate GMV. I get VM is the goat and at this point in his career the incentives have changed, but does this have real longevity? (longaevity)
If you’re not experienced, please refrain from sharing inexperienced views
Uh what? Longaeva is not a super pod by any means lol
It seems you’re more familiar than I am so if you know, could you explain to me how? That is the point of my post
Based on the most insightful WSO discussions, the concerns you’ve raised about large, grouped pods in the MM world, like Throughline, are valid and reflect broader industry debates. Here are some key points to consider:
Overcrowding and Correlation Risks:
Volatility and Factor Neutral Saturation:
Loss of Narrative and Horizon:
Longevity of the Model:
Incentive Structures and Evolution:
In summary, while the MM model has its strengths, the issues of overcrowding, correlation, and short-termism are real challenges that could impact its long-term viability. The success of platforms like Throughline will depend on their ability to innovate and adapt to these structural pressures.
Sources: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/hedge-fund/hedge-fund-research-analyst-vs-portfolio-manager?customgpt=1, Hedge Fund: Research Analyst vs. Portfolio Manager, What I've Learned About Hedge Fund Structure and Compensation, Performance of the best PM’s at MM’s?, How does LT investing work?
superpods are just little MMs within an MM but I dont think they're at the point where they have huge internal overlap in stock coverage? maybe a but but not the extent youre describing, the PMs under VM are generally doing diff sectors with some marginal overlap on the big names (e.g. everyone trades NVDA and META, but those stocks can take it)
That’s what I thought. But I have seen the overlap (in coverage at least) and it is genuinely frightening and nonsensical.
I think they all generally share resources too. I guess idea is that you have multiple, well-resourced SPMs under VM making relatively orthogonal/uncorrelated bets, but in practice don't know how similar all of the books will end up looking
Inaccurate
Any update on how these are doing -- throughline, longaeva, valist, freestone etc. have heard about jain struggles
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