50k non target or 180k high target.
So… I got into one of the best target schools for finance. But I could also pay 50k for a non target. Feeling guilty because my parents are paying, not sure what to do.
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What are the 2 schools?
Ivy and state school
Just name the schools dude. There's a huge difference between Dartmouth and brown or Cornell
Found the Dartmouth alum.
Dartmouth and UIUC
UIUC and Dartmouth
Any scholarship opportunities? And whats the alumni network at for the non-target
Decent for business not very extensive for IB/consulting unless you happen to get into a very selective club
The 60k total is after a 40k p y scholarship…
Yea bud your not going high target paying $180k for four year. It would be $220k+
I am tho lol I'm not paying full price
If it's not H/W you will very likely end up in the same place (BB/MM IB) anyways based on skill alone, regardless of your school (assuming *some* alumni presence). But if your parents really do have the means to pay for a target (I'd say around 400k/y+ in income), let them.
Currently a student at Notre Dame/Vanderbilt/UMich right now and my family and I will be paying approximately $300,000 for my tuition. My parents' income is in the low 200s, not $400,000+. I can definitively say that going to a school like this was worth the price. Very few non-targets really "make it," I can say that not a single one of my friends (all very smart & driven) who went to worse schools (Boston University, Tulane, Kelley, etc.) have had even comparable success. I will probably out-earn my non-target friends by at least $50,000 post-tax my first year of school. If the difference in cost is only $130,000, you will easily break even.
The reason I am writing this is that I also had meaningfully cheaper non-target options, however, I am forever glad I did not choose that option. If you are willing to put the work in at a target, I am incredibly confident you will succeed and make that $130,000 back no problem.
Just to be explicit, if you're fortunate enough to get literally any BB/EB/reputable MM IB offer, that $130,000 will feel like a rounding error. I understand that this may come across as non-target hate, but it is the truth and it does no prospective college student favors to hear some meritocratic fallacy. (source I go to a semi-target, not a target)
Wow you paid $300k for UMich? Yikes
You characterize your friends as smart and driven and then say they went to schools I've never heard of. How smart can they be?
Your friends are not comparable to you. Getting into BU/etc. is not close to the caliber of ND/etc., but I 100% guarantee you that if you went to Kelley/BU (not Tulane, bc no alumni presence) you would place in the same random bulge-bracket or middle-market you would've at either. When you go to a better school, the standards change. You're now the average student at ND compared to a top 10% student at Kelley. The average student at ND is placing random BB/MM, just like the top 10% student at Kelley. If not, do a Vandy/etc. MFin for cheaper, and either way your undergrad is not H/W.
I understand you're not trying to hate on non-targets, but this advice is coming from someone from a non-target who knows how non-target recruiting works, and placed even better than they would have if they made the decision to go to the target. From first-hand experience with recruiters and helping others recruit, he WILL make it if there are alumni at the firm. He won't if there isn't. When you fail to make it at a semi-target, or burn out and take a 100k/y CorpDev job like 60%+ of other bankers after year 1, that 350k total debt will not be a rounding error. It'll be you being taken out of your parents' will.
I went to a non-target B10 school, networked harder than hell, and ended up just fine with and will be earning close to $150,000k + my first year out of school.
It's definitely doable, but you would definitely have to grind on connections (alumni ones) and make sure to keep gpa above 3.6.
You paid 300k for one of those schools… definitely not worth if, they are all fine schools but lol definitely not worth 300k. A
UMich doesn't belong in the same sentence as notre dame
There is very little difference between the schools you mentioned (exception being Kelley not sure why that's even mentioned). You are drinking way too much kool aid bud.
go to the target
Neither - put the 180K in bitcoin and spend the next four years as a Navy Seal
Definitely the target. The $150k delta ain't shit in the long run
Also need to think about optionality tho. Yes you will make a lot of money in finance that tuition can look like a rounding error. But also what if you decide it's not the path for you? So like are you taking on a lot of debt or are your parents able to cash flow pay for either?
Like if this means you're taking $130,000 in incremental debt, that's gonna take 3 years of finance to pay down without saving much. Kinda kills your optionality.
I have ~30k in debt from going to a semi-target, also parents having to pay more than if I went to scholarship options (worse schools), but I'd say it was very worth. Made it my job to get a good finance job. But I also feel like I have decent optionality cause I can pay off my loans relatively quick and then I have good branding/credentials for any other job I'd like to switch to cause I def don't see finance as a long term thing anymore.
I just don't know what else I'd do. I hate STEM so that's out the window. The arts could never support me. Law sounds kind of boring and isn't as versatile in branching out for me personally. Consulting/IB sounds interesting, especially consulting.
Consulting/IB aren't the only jobs in the space m. Corporate finance/strategy, business analyst, FLDP programs, etc.
The point he is making is that you will be chained to a job with poor lifestyle for at least 3 years to even break even. Trust me in college I thought 70-80 hours didn't sound too bad. Then you work it being staffed on multiple projects in an extremely stressful environment, and you realize it's way worse than what you thought in college. You want to try to avoid the golden handcuffs early on if you can (assuming the state school is reasonable of course).
Okay definitely go to the target school. No need to feel guilty your parents are paying unless they are incurring serious debt for it, but that doesn't sound like the case here.
However, the notion that non targets have virtually no chance of breaking in is just fading every year. Obviously, it's way easier to break in if you're at a target, but plenty of people from state schools with strong alumni can break in if you start early/in the right clubs.
However, let's say you go to Univ of Texas, do IB route, you will have a huge leg up in Houston/Dallas but NYC could be a stretch. Location preference becomes more flexible the better the school
As someone who grew up very very middle class (parents never made more than $70k) and had a similar choice, go target. The network and branding throughout your life will 100% make it worth it, and I was the one paying, not my parents.
Your school is your brand and the cost of education is very much an investment in your life and career. So what if you have to deal with some low six-figure debt, you will have that paid off in a few years. If you're feeling guilty, make an effort to pay your gratitude once you achieve that dream job, that would have only been achievable (without insane rigor and busting your ass) with a target degree.
Target if they can afford it. Might reconsider if your parents were seriously unable to pay or this was all going to be in loans, but don't feel guilty about getting a good education.
Take the target. At my past 3 jobs they never hired ANYONE from a state school. Ever. Even a $300k difference is nothing for a 30 year career, not to mention the alumn network.
Never? What about schools like uva, umich, notre dame?
Notre Dame is private lol
Sorry I should've clarified non-target state school. But yes Notre Dame is private.
always target as long as you can afford it or with loans as long as you're willing to grind it out to go into IB (or at the very least MBB/Tech etc.) to pay off your loans
Why not name drop the schools? You're anonymous and it's not like we would actually find out/care to find out who you are
UIUC and Dartmouth
Would be better to compare if the schools were mentioned. But even many non target schools have tuition of at least that amount. So if you can go to a top school for 180k, that would be worth it.
UWM and Dartmouth
UIUC and Dartmouth
I've attended three state schools, a very low ranking one with no finance presence, a flagship with a good regional network and UC Berkeley. As far as the opportunities go, if you're choice of state school is very shitty then going to ND will have a tremendous benefit to your overall ROI.
Having a degree from really shitty schools pays less than people who went straight into working and often times people never recover from the debt they took. They essentially levered themselves and were left with no good options to expand their income. This excludes state school is like Penn State, UW, or UT, which provide decent opportunities for talented people.
If you're going to a good state school you'll have a bit fewer opportunities as you're resume won't stand out as much but it's also abit easier to excel. Because the difference in your case is so low it might make sense for you to go to ND but it was free vs $300k then it becomes harder to justify.
If you are serious about banking I've worked in three firms (BB and EB), none of which would consider you as a candidate from UIUC and all of which would consider candidates from Dartmouth.
Banking or consulting/ PMing are what I'm considering rn but idk yet…
Never heard of the first school. Take Dartmouth.
Was in a similar situation, HYPSM at 75% cost vs UIUC at near 0 cost and ended up choosing the target.
I think if your plan is SWE, tech PM or grad school, then the calculus is less in favor of the target, and being a top student at UIUC will get you pretty far. However, for something other than maybe Chicago-based MM IB/PE or T2/3 consulting, I can see how you are going to be in a significant disadvantage. If you think finance/consulting is likely the path you are going, I think Dartmouth should be worth it.
One thing to consider is that business school can give an opportunity for getting a top target on your resume. For example, UIUC -> T2/3 consulting -> M7 MBA was a common path in the Chicago office of the MBB office I was at. And if you know that you'll be spending another 200k+ on a top b-school that might tip the scales in favor of UIUC.
In the end, I don't think it makes as big difference as people think. People tend to have hindsight bias and think either "I was able to land my career because I of my school" or "the reason I didn't get x finance job was because of my school" but really hard to prove anything. Good luck, both are great choices.
My rationale for the target was that I don't really want to get an MBA if at all possible and I feel like in the end I save more money later if I don't go to UIUC. I also want to live in NYC which I feel is more doable through the target.
I would definitely take the target. Paying back the full college amount after a few years of IB is feasible. Chances go way way up of getting a job like that from the target, or getting one that also pays well. Plus, quality of education in and of itself. Not to say you couldn't have a good experience at the other school, but another point to note. Who knows if you'll want IB in a few years. Like others have said, greater optionality at the target.
Is it doable to pay off if I do Consulting?
Yes! It might just take a bit longer. But think about how long a career is
Go to the Ivy target. You may feel like it's not worth the money right now, but it will help beyond your right of out college years also, if your looking for post IB opportunities on the buy side. Not necessarily paying for the quality of education bc that is debatable but the network and doors that a name can bring. This country is still so undergrad prestige obsessed.
"What is UIUC?" This should answer your question
Correct I literally had to Google it.
Coming back to this - take Dartmouth if your parents can pay for it. UIUC places 15 into BB/EB, 15 top MM, and 10 into MBB. Dartmouth places 30 into BB/EB, 10 top MM, and 20 MBB roughly. Verifiable through LinkedIn.
As I said, you'll end up in the same place based on skill alone, but it seems like your parents could somewhat easily pay the principal if you happened to, base/average case, start 90k comp and slowly grow. If Dartmouth was all debt instead of a mix of debt/cash, or if UIUC was completely free, this might be a different story.
Definitely Dartmouth. You can surely get interviews coming from there but preparing well is up to your own efforts
For what its worth I had a similar decision( Emory vs Dartmouth ) and I picked Emory. Still ended up at an EB. I'm sure Dartmouth would have been great too but I absolutely don't regret my decision. I had many other friends when I was at Emory that made similar decisions and all ended up in great places like MBB, BB/EB IB, PE, FAANG, T20 Med school, and T5 Law. It's about what you do when you're there
Emory (#22) is way stronger than UIUC (#41)
Emory has a 13% acceptance rate
UIUC has 60% acceptance
for reference Dartmouth is #12 and 6% acceptance
Emory has more money than Dartmouth as well and places lights out in consulting
my my how things have changed. There's not enough difference, if anything Notre Dame is weakest
Vandy acceptance rate: 7%
Tulane acceptance rate: 8%
cornell acceptance rate: 9%
Emory acceptance rate: 9-10%
Notre Dame acceptance rate: 15%
use NPV to make your decision
$50k and $180k will be your pat coming out of undergrad if you chose UIUC and Dartmouth respectively
UIUC alum in IB here - I'd go with the target. In the long run, it'll open more doors and be a worthwhile investment. Finance is incredibly pedigree oriented and a name like Dartmouth will take a longer way. Yes, UIUC's banking club is incredibly helpful and relatively easy to get into with the appropriate prep but doesn't completely level the playing field with candidates from target schools. IBA consistently places well in Chicago but isn't as well-known a brand in NYC (or SF for that matter) and therefore much harder to get looks at top-tier banks. Some places will outright never consider you for an interview, and if you are given one you could be competing for one of the few non-target seats.
Once you've placed (and gotten a return offer) your place in "high finance" is in some way secured and undergrad matters to a lesser degree. Sure some buyside shops will still have a hard on for what school you went to but typically your IB stint carries more weight. At that point it's much more about your story and experiences. But that first step is pivotal and can be done more successfully at a target.
I'll say the caveat to this is if your goal is to stay in Chicago and are looking to go to a MM firm (Blair, Baird, HL, etc.). IBA has very strong ties to these banks and can be viewed as basically a target. If that's what you're looking for, UIUC will make it very achievable to do (while still having a great college experience). This is just food for thought - as a senior in high school I don't expect you know exactly what you want.
Considering that you got into a target school it changes the situation. You clearly have the drive and motivation to succeed and do well in school. Fully immerse yourself in school work I personally believe that it won't matter what u ultimately choose. Having said that I come from low income family so I chose a lower priced school. If your family has 180k to spend on ivy then I would say go for it. Lastly obviously interviews are easier to get into firm if they have recruiters but Non-target takes a little more grit and more unconventional ways.
One factor to consider is that if you go to a target undergrad, it may reduce the need to get an MBA later on down the road, both from a prestige and networking standpoint. When combined, the price and opportunity cost (IE not working for 2 years) is pretty significant for an MBA. MBAs are still great for pivoting careers, regardless of school, but if you're already working in the finance industry and planning to continue, its not that useful. Mostly only if you are looking to add a level of "prestige" to your resume. Someone who already went to an Ivy doesn't gain a ton from a prestige standpoint adding another top B school to their resume IMO. Similarly, at a target undergrad, a lot more of your peers will end up in similar fields, which helps from the networking point as well, also reducing the benefit of an MBA
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