Hey all, here's my situation:
I'm a sophomore at a non-target. I was thinking about majoring in math, finance, and statistics (no its not that bad). However, its possible for me to get a masters in finance while majoring in math and statistics in 4 yrs. I'm trying to decide whether I should do this, considering:
1) The quality of the ugrad education isn't that great. I wont learn too much on my way to a ugrad finance degree and i'll have to take some useless (to me) classes like marketing.
2) I will learn a lot of valuation and such from the masters. However, its designed to be a 1 yr program at a non-target : not the kind of credential that would look particularly impressive as a standalone.
3) I don't need this degree to get my foot in the door. They don't place too many on wallstreet and i'm fairly confident I can get in on my own anyways.
4) The masters will cost more money, though i can afford it without much discomfort
5) Slight possibility I might want to pursue a MSF elsewhere sometime.
6) I hear about so many liberal arts majors getting into banking. This makes me think on the job training must almost immediately dwarf any knowledge I'd gain from this degree.
So, basically, it comes down to sticking with my ugrad finance or going for the masters which, while not particularly useful as a credential, is sure to be more educational. Assuming I could make it into a bb without it, is it worth getting the masters?
Thanks for your thoughts, comments, insights.
My school (non-target) has a program that allows undergrads to get a masters with only one additional year of study. It is a huge appeal to many, especially for those who are on scholarship because they can receive a masters at a discount. It is a very big decision. Here is the biggest risk you will face (IN MY EXPERIENCE): the moment any respectable investment bank sees "masters" on your resume without a equivalent amount of work experience -- the HR rep discounts you as a candidate. Typically, firms hire undergrads for analyst positions, and MBAs for associates/VPs. If you have a masters but lack the work experience of a grad student, they can't put you into either pool. As a analyst, they may deem you have too much education. As an associate, you don't have enough experience. Many times, these candidates are passed over for jobs. Case in point: I competed for the same job as someone who had a masters (but no experience because she was still undergrad). I got the offer.
If you want to show the firm how much you really know, sit for the L1 CFA exam. It's rigorous. Firms know this. You can take L1 during your senior year. It may cause SOME confusion in the HR rep's mind because traditionally, the CFA exam is reserved for the hedge-fund type, but it got me a job. I-banks require a thorough understanding of DCFs, financial statement analysis, and other finance-related skills. If you sit and pass the CFA, you can prove all of this.
That's my two cents -- from experience.
Slighlty agree with F9 except for the CFA bit. In dezedmonk's case it won't do him much good to sit for the CFA, because he won't know the results when he will be applying for graduate programs. For the masters degree it makes sense if you want to work for a bank in London, it does not make any sense if it is in the US though, unless you are thinking of doing financial engineering or something like that. In the UK you might get a job if you go get a masters at LSE or Oxbridge, but you probably won't have much chances of getting one with a US masters. The most important thing to get into banking is networking, so if you get a masters at LSE it is pointless if you don't bust your arse networking; now if you get a masters at your school you probably won't get to network at all, so you are SOL for banking then.
That was my really tired 2 cents, and now i am off to bed in just a bit. Still jet lagged and dying.
Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is. - My ex girlfriend
If he was able to get his scores back on the CFA before applying, do you think it would be valuable? This is possible.
The CFA Institute says you must be within one year of completing the requirements for a bacherlor's degree when you register for the CFA exam. Dazedmonk, you are a triple major. When you are within one year of completing the requirements for a bachelors degree - which SHOULD be a while before you graduate since you are taking the time to complete three different majors - then you can register for the first exam. For example, if you can be completely finished with the requirements for one of your majors (and thus, a bachelor's degree), you can register for the L1 exam during your junior year. You'll have your results by your senior year, and if extremely ambitious (and assuming you can pass L1), you can even register for L2 if you've completed your degree requirements.
Again, the CFA is typically considered a market-oriented designation, but it involves a lot of the skills banks are looking for. And, I agree with Disjoint about the networking. Whenever you aren't studying or working, try to be networking.
I have a similar program in my college. It's called the MSF program, but in my honest opinion, it doesn't seem too attractive. I don't know how your program is unless it's Florida. In my college the program has decent placements. They don't manage to get investment bankers into bulge brackets but other normal boutiques and second tier BBs. I believe your Math/Stats/Finance is good enough. As you said earlier, you don't need this to get into wall street, so I suggest you save the time, graduate early, and get an MBA from a top college.
Thanks for the advice guys. I guess I'll suck up those marketing and management classes after all...
Hi all...
I was curious to hear some of your advice on my situation. I am currently doing a Masters in Finance at LSE here in London. I am doing the program part-time over two years and working full-time. My full-time job is in strategic planning/business development for a venture internet start-up. The job basically entails creating pitch books/powerpoints, presenting to c level senior management and lots of planning. I am also making very good money. My question is, when I complete my MSc in Finance in 2009, will I be a suitable candidate for an associate position at an investment bank both in the states and Europe? I just feel like if I'd enter as an analyst, I'd be back-tracking both in terms of knowledge (given I'm learning the stuff in my MSc program) and salary. Further, prior to entering my program, I had my own company providing web design and development to medium to large size law firms. I created all the pitch material, did the presentations and sealed the deals. I had the company for a year before committing to LSE and grossed over 100k in 1 year. I am currently 23 years old and graduated w/ a 3.62 in undergrad from Indiana University. I also have more experience but I think the above should suffice.
Please let me know your thoughts when you have an opportunity. Thank you in advance!
bump
The CFA has lost all allure, they are a certificate printing house, its not that hard. Masters in finance? Why waste your time, I taught myself all of the modeling, financial statement analysis with the help of one of the street prep courses (cost only about $2,000 as opposed to tens of thousands of the masters and $1,000 for the CFA level 1) and books. I got a job in banking, it wont be bulge bracket but you can get into a reputable firm in the mid market or boutique for bigger deals and you wont be a drone. If you have good ideas and can convey them into making money, then you will be fine, if you cant, then I suggest trying to get as many degrees and certificates as possible to mask that deficiency while the others are making money.
The CFA exams are rigorous. When you take the CFA, you're being tested on principles and concepts used in the field (maybe not specifically investment banking - and banking isn't the end-all-be-all). The pass rate was 39% when I took the exam. That's 39% of the people who showed up. Many who register don't show up.
If you're going to get any designation, it is THE designation to get. The purpose of taking the exams isn't to put three letters after your name, get paid and then fade away. I didn't get a banking job because I wrote "CFA Level II Candidate" on my resume. I got a banking job because I clearly and concisely answered every accounting and finance question thrown my way. Of course, if you're a dummy and pass all three rigorous exams and can't apply it, it was money squandered. Of course you can teach yourself a similar amount of knowledge. Not all of the best professors are Phd's, and not all the best PM's are CFA's. There is no ONE thing you can do to become a great banker.
Bratwurst, I agree with you: good ideas make money. Don't be pessimistic about the CFA designation. Some use it as a crutch, which is pathetic. However, if you think IBs don't respect those who have passed the exams and have earned the designation, you're simply wrong.
Agree with F9, and if the kid is able to pass the exam in December and then finishing a second degree the second year, then I would say definitely go for it.
Bratwurst you taught yourself what a masters program could teach you? Why did you bother going to school at all in the first place for your undergrad? I mean I must have wasted my time going to high school, period; I could have learned all that bs at home. The idea behind an MBA or a Masters program is not just the knowledge you acquire, it is the network you build. Also when you mention the name of one of your research supervisor and all your interviewers know who he is, it does help, not only this but knowledge that is carried by professors can seldom be found in a book. A school doesn't have just classes to offer it has much more.
If you can get in a good masters program go for it.
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Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is. - My ex girlfriend
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