Why does everyone shit on Houston/Dallas-What’s so special about NYC(genuinely curious).
So I’m from Texas and I got into Rice Ed(heavy bias clearly), and I’m set on Houston ib with 0 intentions to recruit NYC at all. I’ll probably recruit to ATL as well tho, there’s like 6 decent banks over there. My reasoning when looking at it objectively is that in Houston you’ll live 5x a better quality of life while also saving 2x amount due to COL and taxes. And yes, it’s oil and gas but what’s wrong with that especially with more renewables and infrastructure. I don’t get why people love NYC either, maybe you gotta go there to get it but on paper, it’s high COL, high taxes and liberal(some won’t like this). Why do UT kids and some Rice kids dickride NYC when imo Houston is levels ahead. Why not just stay in Houston forever and Dallas is getting bigger too. Any opinions cause I don’t get it. Pe seems to be good as well, I just don’t see it. LMK if I’m wrong I guess.
NYC is the financial capital of the world, that's why. If its not your cup of tea that's fine.
Fair enough.
This is the answer.
Perfect reply
Lol no it's not it's dying. Thanks either get out of the US or go to the south.
because O&G could disappear in a couple years if nuclear fusion or the like is figured out.
Nah, energy will persist for at least the rest of our lives.
i’m saying it could disappear at any moment not that it will soon
i’m saying it could disappear at any moment not that it will soon
There's a difference between baseload and intermittent power. Also the infra one nuclear plant takes like 30+ years
It wouldn't. A lot of everything we use relies in the hydrocarbons from O&G. Plastics, vinyls, oils, car paints. Your clothes which are nylon and rayon. Etc.
Finance is going to become southern. And oil and gas will dominate thanks.
I moved to Houston from the west so I have a different perspective. Texans overhype Houston because they simply haven't experienced anything else. My opinion is that it's an OK place to live. It has all you need but everything else sucks. You get pigeonholed to energy/infra, dating market sucks and theres no culture here because Texans are boring af. There's so many better cities to spend your 20's in. Sure you can make more than NYC but you'll pay with missed experiences.
Other than NYC tho, what else even is there? SF and LA and both worse than NYC. Then there’s really just Chicago left.
I bet Atlanta isn’t bad… Charlotte sucks tho
Boston and DC. Maybe Seattle but IB is very lacking there.
London, Paris, Madrid, Stockholm, some cities in Asia. Many top cities around the world.
The thing is US cities generally suck. Some more than others...Dallas, Houston, etc
From Texas, I can agree with certainty… Texans have quite literally zero culture. I didn’t experience legitimate cultural differences until I moved out of state. Shitty place to be tbh but sure you can buy yourself a bigger home in the middle of bum fuck nowhere. In the end, you will experience much more outside that shitty state.
Lol you got that right. Longtime texan here
houston is a sprawling musty shithole with shitty weather and no public transportation for those who care. And its genuinely more dangerous than nyc. Atlanta too lol, carjacking heaven.
Its always the Texans who have never lived elsewhere that think dfw/gha is amazing.
Honestly Atlanta is pretty great if you know where to look!
Why is the dating scene bad
Houston is a less desirable place to live. Therefore the dating market has less desirable/competitive people on average.
Incoming freshman and an An2? Nice
It’s just for anonymous, it’s really not that deep pal.
Must be in WITG or some other top club.
"If I'd lived in Roman times, I'd have lived in Rome. Where else? Today America is the Roman Empire and New York is Rome itself." - John Lennon
Houston is more of an O&G hub, rather then the broad range of finance.
New York has been the American/global center of all things business and finance. I could elaborate with historic and other details; but the point remains that while many of us have complaints about the city, and might even prefer other locations (for various reasons), New York City will likely always remain the center of finance -- everything started here, and NYC has subsequently survived the Great Depression, 9/11, COVID, etc, with global focus and the financial industry remaining here. Even with satellite offices and other regional hubs, everything remains here.
Houston might be strong in a certain area, but it's not Wall Street.
Look up old video of the wild NYSE exchange trading floor (I've been there, truly wild), and video of bankers double-handing phones with international calls, global clocks, multiple languages, and non-stop chaos, all before the internet - the world saw New York as the hub, because it was - and it is - and it likely always will be.
Without going into individual points, that is a broad answer.
I have nothing against Houston, and I understand why some (many) might seek to avoid NYC (I get it), but it's very different from New York City, when it comes to the industry.
NYC has been but now it's shifting to Dallas and Charlotte because white culture and white flight
This is patently false. New York has retained a particularly large white community, even in a city where 40% of the population is foreign-born, and counting. Besides, it is getting gentrified as we speak.
As long as the United States is the global financial capital, New York will be the crown jewel. Always has been, always will be.
Go for it dude, it's a solid plan don't let the NYC circlejerk discourage you. Energy IB is alive and well and not going away
Thank you man, ima stick with it.
Houston is a dump. Dallas all the way.
Ima go for both but I have heard that Dallas is much newer and nicer as well. I know there’s Evercore and some others there too.
There’s nothing wrong about Texas. It’s just that NYC is *the* place for finance professionals. Sure cost of living is a lot higher but that matters a lot less than you think. There’s a lot of operating leverage because in NY, there’s decent potential for your income to grow a lot more than cost of living over a 20 year career. And if you think your income ceiling has come down, then you can move out. But a lot of people start here because they want that right tail outcome which doesn’t really exist to the same extent in Texas. Buyside opportunities are just way more in the city too. I can’t imagine recruiting for a hedge fund from Texas lol.
Cause there's no need for hedge funds down here. brad meets thad at the country club and closes a baller deal of an investment. No public markets. Max maybe a couple others know about the deal. It's all connections down here baby
Also why you see public schools being shut down and things / funding shifting to private school. Which are institutions of the rich. It's all shifting to the small wasp elite
New York is the finance capital and a great city. I like Houston too, but man Atlanta is not even close to either of those cities
Because Houston sucks lol
Houston has had 2 500 year storms, and 1 100 year storm within the last decade. No development regulations so anytime a large storm hits the city gets flooded. Not only the least expensive areas but more expensive areas also. As weather gets worse it will be interesting where this ends up.
The problem with Houston is that there is limited opportunity. Rice has like 40 hires at the top 25 PE funds. And half of those are probably SWEs. It’s why I switched to a more traditional target. But enjoy man, it’s a good school and a great place to be. Im 5’10 and I literally felt like a fucking giant there. Was hitting it off with almost every girl I met. Seems like a great place to get laid. Super happy kids too
So would I be losing opportunities in Texas? I'm more than fine staying a career banker but what would the exit ops be because pretty much everyone who wants Houston IB here gets it. And the thing about girls is so true, Rice is prob the ugliest male body base in America which makes it easy.
opps in Houston O&G are definitely suboptimal. If ur lucky u might get an energy role in a UMM+ fund but most likely you’ll just get offers from energy specific Texas funds like encap which frankly are on their last leg. That being said, ur definitely not pigeonholed, if u get a good Houston brand (you should be able to with the rice name) than you can probably lateral out to another good firm in NYC without too much of an issue. And rice is definitely on the rise. I’d say just try to enjoy it, if ur even remotely decent looking you will be a fucking frat star there (well technically residential college star, but ya get the point, damn it). The finance major is pretty easy and you’ll almost certainly have Houston IB locked up when u graduate. What I will say is that rice is basically a non target for NYC. When I was going there people in my area (mid atlantic/midwest) would ask if it was a state school all the time. Even if u can leave, it might be in your best interest to stay in Houston just so you can have access to the life changing network that a place like rice will provide in Texas. If you absolutely love NYC and want to transfer out to another T20/Ivy, it will also be pretty easy. Good luck and enjoy man. PM if u have any questions
I think what you're asking is if you optimize for quality of life (very refreshing POV btw, good for you), which for you is Houston over NYC, what would you miss out on.
Beaten to death, but NY center of the financial world blah blah. Professionally, maybe you miss out on opportunities / optionality. But I think your head is in the right place, in terms of looking at it from a personal quality of life perspective. It really comes down to your personal preference. O&G might ebb and flow, but it isn't going away in your lifetime.
Full disclosure, I ride that NY dick hard. From the food scene to just the general vibe and the variety of things to do, man its so my thing. It's one of a few "global" cities from my younger days, and even young and broke, its one hell of a time. There are cons, a lot of them but nothing deal breaking from me. I've also been just as happy in cities that are not NYC.
Trying to get my employer to agree to a relocation from NY to Dallas. I've offered a 15% pay cut.
Texas politics are generally more of a dealbreaker for liberals/moderates IME than NY politics are for conservatives/moderates. Abortion, marijuana, the weird religious-ness, border problems are harder for people (like me) to stomach compared to higher taxes, LGBT pride, etc. I'd never subject my fiance/kids to the neoconservative theocratic idiocy that seems to govern Texas.
Helps that NYC is liberal but not as hyperleft as SF (look at our mayor, lol).
Also despite what Fox News might tell people, NYC is one of the safest cities in America (including the riskier areas) and overall much safer than Dallas, Houston, or really any part of Texas.
Valid that NYC crime isn't really as bad as reported but I don't think you've spent much time in Texas, if any. Theocracy? Dude just don't go to church if you don't want to lol
Abortion is literally illegal in Texas today, lol. Why tf would I subject my fiance and potential future daughters to that political wasteland?
Also marijuana use. There are real religion-driven nonsense/policies in TX that impact day to day life...
I’ll tell you the best thing about NYC:There isn’t a better place on the planet to be a single male.A 7 in NYC is a 10 in Houston (or anywhere else).One caveat - as a man you don’t really hit your peak until your late 20s early 30s - That’s when you’d really really. Really enjoy being in NYC (as I did…)
That said - if you aren’t one for suspended adolescence in your 20s - you’ll get better set up financially and lifestyle wise living in Houston.
Lived in all 3 cities, Dallas, Houston, and NYC now. Going to be intentionally vague here but I had to move to NYC because the firm I was previously at no longer has a Houston presence and I had to take something to not just take an L on unemployment which brought me to NYC. After bonuses pop in the spring, I'm gone, or maybe sooner if the right opportunity presents itself. That said, here's the good and bad:
NYC:
Houston:
Dallas:
As far as dating goes across the cities, you got pros and cons in each. May be easier to mention the cons. The cons of NYC is more corporate type girls who cannot turn it off and have fun. The cons with Texas are more girls who want to be in bed at 10 PM on a Friday. Neither are really for me. The pros are all 3 are major metro areas with millions of people, so eventually you'll find what you're looking for.
Bottom line is it's your life and your career so do your research and live where you want. Tech bros have it worse if they have to consider San Francisco which has completely fallen apart. You definitely have worse options than any of those 3 metro areas. But, I was asked why I like TX so I answered it.
One add: scrolling this thread, most people are talking their own book. You can take some of the points they make as guidance but shouldn't take as absolute fact. Saying Texas has "no culture" would be like saying the entirety of NYC is homeless schizos on the subway and criminals. It's just a clickbait cliche.
Houston is a humid hot place with only highways and 0 culture. Ditto Dallas. Waste your life sitting in traffic. Junior bankers don't have the luxury of time to enjoy the only good thing about those areas which is having more square feet for your house.
For me NYC is about the day-to-day life being fun & interesting. Young ambitious people all around you, new places to discover all the time etc. In a word, stimulation.
"Financial capital of the world" just feels like an empty slogan that doesn't have a personal impact. And the opportunities there aren't better relative to the number of people seeking them.
If you can handle the humidity and ordinary feel of Houston, it's a better bet overall.
Charlotte is actually the banking capital of the U.S.
Ngl man Charlotte is so shit.
is so 'the' shit*
plz fix.
Full disclosure, I live in nyc and have only visited Houston. I personally don’t think nyc is as great as many others but it easily clears Houston which might be my least favorite city I’ve been to. No culture, food is terrible outside a few regional specialties, poor nightlife, and just a gross sprawling mess. Sorry, but it’s just what I’ve gathered from my time there.
NYC is exactly what you hear it is, both good and bad. It is expensive, dirty, and often chaotic, but nightlife and food are spectacular, it’s beautiful from an architectural and layouts perspective, and the arts are well and alive. No perspective on Dallas but overall I do think nyc is somewhere that most young people should try to live for at least a little while for the experience.
only push back I have here is on Houston's food scene, you are dead wrong.
Yeah hilariously wrong on Houston's food.
I’ll admit I’m not as familiar on that front as I could be so happy to say I could be wrong. My experience was pretty disappointing but obviously I barely scratched the surface.
From the south as well and moved to nyc kicking and screaming over 3 years ago. Was convinced I’d hate it and ended up loving it. Smartest and most interesting people in the world are here. Unlimited things to do. There’s an energy here that’s hard to describe too. I miss the outdoors, having space and generally a simpler life at times but no place I’d rather be in my 20s.
Nothing wrong with Dallas or Houston but I’ve heard it can be harder to make friends if you’re not from texas. Purely anecdotal though.
all of the cities mentioned are wonderful places to live, raise a family, retire in - now that i'm in the family raising stage I would happily move there for the right opportunity.
While the benefit of starting your career in NYC can be debated over some others, I struggle to think of a better place in North America to experience all the things relevant to a 20-something year old experience - dating, nightlife, culture, diversity, career, etc. By 28 i met my gf, by 30-32 i was kinda over NYC and longed for a more traditional experience.. this intensified once i had kids. Never thought i'd see the day ...
Yes, NYC is where ~60-80% of Investment Banking roles are in the US. Also, I found in MBA (east coast) that 80-90% of candidates were gunning for NYC, so it seems that most people interested in IB want the NYC experience.
HOWEVER, there are those 10-20% of folks that gun for southern cities such as CLT, ATL, MIA, DC, RIC, TPA, etc. because you can:
[One can apply the above points on the Southeast to living in Texas]
You bring up some great points I hadn't thought of.
In energy out of NY. In Houston, every other month. Just doesn’t have as much to do, unless sitting in traffic to Bush counts.
It's because people grow up with different ideas of what is "fun" and things to do. I personally could never live in New York long term. I don't give shit about how many different foods or bars I can visit. I could care less about going to see a play or opera. I rather go hunt or spend time in nature rather than sit in a building. To me New York is not fun at all and would prefer Texas 10 times out of 10.
The answer isn’t a completely a completely pragmatic one.
If you don’t understand the allure of New York then it can’t be explained, but it’s because:
- it’s a cooler place (fashion/food/culture), it is the “it” scene for young people. For yuppies.
- it is a place of ambition. No other us cities have the ceilings that New York can provide you
It’s really just about wanting to be in that scene. If you’re drawn to the south and are comfortable there and don’t have a wanderlust to participate in nyc, then this will go over you.
It’s mostly just kids jerking themselves off on here that care whether you’re in NYC or not. bread is bread and I get comped well above the average NY associate while I enjoy a nicer COL (and life tbh since NYC is ghetto af). By all means though on-cycle is easier for NY if you work in NY, but that’s your only real upshot in the grand scheme of life.
You are missing the point and comparing apples to oranges here.
1) You’re probably an outlier getting comped more than a NY assoc on a gross basis
2) You’re comparing yourself to the *average* associate in NY. People aren’t in NY to be the average associate. People are here for the opportunity to be a rockstar hedge fund analyst with 7 figure pay-checks in your late20s. You don’t get that sort of buy in at a place like Texas. And yes loads of people fail. But loads of people try too.
Hey retard, there are MANY top O&G / energy hedge funds in Texas that ARE comping late 20 year olds like that. And there are biotech analysts making millions in SF. Your infatuation with NY is entirely ego-driven, and no one’s more impressed at you toiling away in one geography or the next. Go where the opportunity is, wherever that may be, if that’s what you want, is my point.
Texas long horn
Went from Dallas to Houston, IB to PE. I felt that the people in Dallas hollow and didn’t care too much for the big picture. Likewise, Dallas is very structured, people just work till they die and go to the same two or three areas every weekend to drink. That said, it’s very clean and a hub in the south for all types of finance. If you want to settle down, there are plenty of nice suburbs to do so in.
Houston has been way more enjoyable compared to Dallas IMO. Way more things to do, the people are down to earth and easier to work with. The food is killer as well, still haven’t found a restaurant that isn’t delicious. Counter would be the traffic and it is dirtier. Also, there are not a lot of industries outside of energy or industrials.
NY is NY, no doubt about it. But to someone else’s comment, all my buddies in IB and PE up there don’t even have the time to enjoy it. Ron Burgundy once said “I’m in a glass case of emotion”.
The increasing competition part is probably true. There are more people who want to live in TX now after 2020, but less seats after the end of the shale boom. I'm hoping that LNG and who knows maybe cleantech create a new expansion of Houston banks. It's funny because if you go to old threads here from the early 2010s when the shale boom was in full swing, it was all people praising Houston. So it's fair to say that the city life may be cyclical with the energy industry.
Because houston is Hot, Humid, and has Aligators. Shit is terrifyig. Dallas is cool tho.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Born and raised in Houston, lived off the bayou and have never seen an alligator
(Deleted)
you're blaming your own, stupid personal choice to take public transit in houston as the major negative?
it takes a special person to vote Chiraq over Houston and completely ignore the crime in Chicago
Aye I’m trying to save as much as possible while working during the summertime, I’m not paying $500 a month for a parking pass so yes I’m taking public transit. Also, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the quality of public transit in a city can be a barometer for a variety of things in that city (including crime, homelessness, culture, etc)
About crime in Chicago, the occurrence of crime is obviously worse in Chicago than Houston. However, because Chicago was intentionally planned, the crime isn’t dispersed everywhere; you have to avoid certain places but that’s 20% of the city? Whereas Houston with no city planning has crime and people begging for money at almost every block, in my experience
Can you provide some insights on the hours (busy/normal/slow) and culture at BAML houston? Appreciate it
I was in WM but the IB folks that myself and other WM/PB interns talked to were looking forward to exiting.
“Worked with baml Houston so I know the city”. Stfu you don’t know shit based off what you are saying lol
It isn’t that NYC is anything special it is just that equities in Dallas…
Currently an IB analyst in NYC but grew up in Texas and went to college at a target school in the east coast so figured I'd throw in my perspective in case it's helpful.
New York has both good and bad but if your goal is to become the top investment banker, you go to New York. From every quantifiable metric, it is hands down better to start in New York. The most analyst roles, the highest deal volume / amount, the best banks, etc are all based in NYC. Sure, there are specific instances where other cities are perhaps better. SF for tech, Houston for Oil and Gas, Chicago for industrials, but most (if not really all) of these industries have a strong presence in NYC. It's the same reason why top high school football athletes all want to attend schools in the SEC or south, because historically those schools have done the best and send a decent amount of athletes into the NFL. I'm not going to split hairs on this other topic but I hope this gives you the gist. NYC is great for a lot of other reasons. Keep in mind that a lot of Bankers had family members in finance and thus grew up in / around New York. NYC has some of the best preparatory schools, colleges, restaurants, night clubs, and so many other things. Regardless of what your interests or hobbies are, you are 100% more likely to find a top tier outlet in NYC. Some of the best MMA gyms in the world are in Manhattan. On top of that, it's a city that a lot of east coast college graduates gravitate towards so you are able to see most of your friends post grad. Even if you go to Rice, I bet there will still be a decent amount of Rice graduates finding their way to NYC.
Overall, I do agree with you. NYC sucks and the quality of life is not reflective of the amount you make in investment banking. Sometimes I think I'd objectively live wealthier if I was a big 4 consultant in Texas than an investment banker making twice as much in NYC. Rent, food, memberships, and everything else except transportation is very expensive in NYC. However, all of that is personal preference that people will always dispute on these threads. I'd just personally take a pay cut and live in an apartment twice the size of mine in NY while saving the same amount. If people want to pay 400 dollars a month for equinox, be my guest, it's just not my cup of tea. Either way, it's better to start in NYC, get experience, and then move back to Texas. The climate, people, cost of living, and overall lifestyle is much more desirable to me in Texas but to each their own
as a counterpoint - the dumbest person i've interacted with in finance went to the Dalton school in NYC.
I haven't met anybody remotely as unbearable or downright vapid as that person from St. Marks, St. Johns, etc. in Texas
Sipping a margarita on a gorgeous Gulf Coast summer evening while sitting on my balcony that overlooks the greenery of River Oaks. Didn’t even think about NYC until I saw this post.
Here’s the truth to it all: go to the city that is the beating heart of your desired industry and you’ll find many reasons to love it. For financial services, yes that is obviously and unquestionably NYC and all the accoutrements. For me, because I love all things energy, Houston is that place, and it works and I’m happy. If you’re on the fence, spend more time figuring out what you want to do and where to do it than trying to benchmark cities that can never be compared. East coasters that say Houston/Dallas/Charlotte/etc don’t stack up to NYC are right but for the wrong reasons. Just doesn’t make sense to say xyz city is trash if you aren’t in the main vein taking advantage of everything it has to offer.
if you’re gunning for the highest seat in finance, yeah Houston/Dallas are not right for you but they are great cities if you are ok going down market or in specific verticals. Not every city is right for everyone, go and do what is best for you
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