What is the point of going through 2 or 3 years as an analyst as opposed to just getting an MBA and applying for an Associate position and moving up the ladder?
If ones aspiration is to be an MD would this be a better choice? the only problem would be im shit out of luck as far as exit ops go, correct?
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yea you are greatly diminishing your chances to get into a reputable buy side firm this way. i don't think analysts go into ibd with the goal to be a lifer.
1) You are not going to get into a reputable MBA program without work experience 2) You are not going to get an Associate position with an MBA and no work experience
*** Ok, it might happen once in a million, but it is rare enough for me to say never
I think he meant doing something else (corpfin, consulting, etc) before MBA, and then entering banking as an associate without slaving away the first 2 years of your life after graduation.
Ohhhh I see.
Well that is fine and a lot of people do it. Not every associate has prior banking experience. Banking experience can make someone an attractive candidate, but if you are interested in something else then go for it.
If your aspiration is to become an Ibanking MD I would start as an analyst and grind through without going to bschool.
@ audio: that's what the plan is.
@ everyone else: thanks I might want to be a lifer, not sure yet I find that most people here want analyst positions to jump on to the buyside. I'm a salesman at heart and doing deals is like crack to me, that's the reason why I think sticking with the sell side and working my way up the ladder would be a good fit for me.
well mds who started as an analyst and mds who did something else before they have done banking are totally different animals.
usually mds who started as an analyst are more hands on, technical, less-bs, and in general more respected (well by the analysts at least, not that it matters)
some parts of the bank (very specialized groups) doesn't hire associates, they promote analysts into associate positions.
What do you guys think about persuing an MD position (obviously grinding to it) as opposed to just jumping into the buyside.
Whats the difference in pay at MD levels? buyside>IB?
Would you still have no exit opps if you did 2 years as an analyst > 2-3 years pre mba pe > mba > ib associate? Basically doing banking again after mba but then jumping ship to the buyside if you change your mind and doing so by leveraging your pre mba pe experience.
most IB analysts don't get into banking to climb the ladder... they do their 2-3 years and then jump to the buyside (pe, hedge funds, etc). getting into IB as a post-mba associate you limit your chances of getting into the buyside as you generally need prior buyside experience to crack into the field post-mba
Is there anything wrong with wanting to climb the ladder?
dude do what you want..who cares what people on here think.
i have thought about this before and below is my take, obviously i am not an MD but since i worked at both a bank and buyside i know some information from both sides.
I think the average ibd md makes around US$2-3mm a year, the average partner at a buyside fund makes around US$10mm, please note that these are average figures.
you can have a very very big upsdie at buy side funds, you make one good investment as a partner and you can easily share US$50mm + from that one investment. Once you make that you can literally retire...
Obviously you have much more pressure in a pe fund because you are responsbile for the principal money you have put in, whereas in ibd pressure is less because you don't bear principal capital risk.
My observation is that MD's in PE work harder than IBD MD's, much harder (you will see them in office past 2:00 a.m. very frequently)
Even though risk is higher at PE, but risk means high volatility, and your downside is capped because you don't share the loss. So working in a PE is like a call option, you just need to hit the homerun once and retire....
so yea it's the typical money-life balance question. More money + less life -> PE, more life + less money -> Banking, but because of the call option scheme at PE and the fact I don't want to be salesman I think PE has more value for me.
Am I missing something? My office sounds like a scene from Boiler Room. People in my office (Partner & Principals) live on the phone all day long...calling and asking people how their kids are, if they can grab coffee/breakfast/lunch soon, etc. just trying to keep our firm's name in their mind for when deals roll across the banker's desk.
Maybe we are different because we are smaller and specialized but it seems like it would likely be the same, even at much larger shops. Do note, I agree with the rest of your post.
Regards
Am I missing something? My office sounds like a scene from Boiler Room. People in my office (Partner & Principals) live on the phone all day long...calling and asking people how their kids are, if they can grab coffee/breakfast/lunch soon, etc. just trying to keep our firm's name in their mind for when deals roll across the banker's desk.
Maybe we are different because we are smaller and specialized but it seems like it would likely be the same, even at much larger shops. Do note, I agree with the rest of your post.
Regards
Partners at MM PE funds make an average of $10m a year? Really?
some parts of the bank (very specialized groups) doesn't hire associates, they promote analysts into associate positions.
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did I mention MM PE anywhere?
RWP thanks, very interesting post.
Really? The "average" partner at a buyside firm makes $10mm? Yeah, and 14% of all people know that.
I feel like the average MD (5+ years being MD) at a BB in NYC or London is pulling between 4-6 mm, so lets say 5 mm average. I don't know how much a partner at a "BB" PE firm makes, but I'm sure its more than that., 10 mm I'm sure is a realistic figure.
But honestly, 5 mm vs 10 mm, we are still talking about lots of money.
No, you didn't mention MM PE specifically, but you used the phrase 'buyside fund', which encompasses it. There's only so many megafunds and a relatively small number of MD's/partners there.
I do agree about the fact that MDs at PE firms generally put in a lot more effort than BB MDs; that's certainly been my experience.
ok maybe i should clarify that i am referring to a comparison between bb ibds and 10bn+ pe funds. i am not sure but i think the average mm funds partners make less than the average bb ibd mds.
What about the amount of time it takes to get to MD in IBD vs the time it takes to reach partner at a buyside fund?
IBD MD- 8-10 years
partner buyside- who knows?
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