Anyone move to MBB as a VP+ in IB?
Coverage-focused VP at an EB in NYC looking to leave this year or beginning of next year and seeking advice.
1. I’m open to exploring finance exits (PE, other IB roles) but not on the top of my list either due to difficulty of moving to PE/having to take a step back, don’t think I’m a great fit with the finance culture in general and also generally not that interested in finance (have always been more interested in the operational/strategy side of things and managing teams. Not too proud to admit that I’m a very average banker.
2. I think an MBB type role could be a fit (either within my coverage area of focus or more of a capability focused vertical), but they have obviously been pressured and seem to be doing layoffs. Hours don’t seem significantly better either and could be hard to transition over at an AP/Principal level type role - maybe they would consider me more like a senior EM/Project Leader.
3. Going to corp dev or another industry role is always an option, but the pay cut is so temp that it would have to be an attractive platform with a clear ramp opportunity.
Can anyone speak to the move from VP IB to consulting? Any advice would be great.
Back when I was at MBB I saw a VP from EB join at PL/EM level. I will say that it is quite hard to join at mid-level and the only time MBB firms really did that at scale was during 2021 hiring craze when they were all growing 20%+ y/y and outside of that generally seems rare. Also in those cases they always force you to work in the area of your specialty. So you'd almost 100% be working on their PE due diligence teams doing CDDs and VDDs. Nothing wrong with that but just a heads up. That all being said imo a EB VP is probably as good as it gets in terms of profile for getting a shot at coming in at that level. I'd reach out to recruiters for the office you are interested joining and also reach out to folks in the PE due diligence teams at those firms to get a feel for it. From a friend who joined at mid level from T2 firm I heard that mid level hiring process for MBB focuses a lot on vertical/indsutry group specific interviews so important to start getting to know those folks. Best of luck!
Can you share which firms on either side? Would like to know which are more friendly to this
With the current downturn in consulting, I wouldn't count on being able to join MBB. 2024 is the manager promo year for the class of 2022, which was probably MBB's biggest class to date - there will be more than enough people to promote from within, leaving it unlikely they have headcount for external hires (esp in a highly desirable office like NYC)
Joining at the manager level is also incredibly tough. Even those who are promoted from within who have years of direct exposure to the demands of that job struggle for the first 6-12 months. To give one example of the difference - as a VP, you have an associate under you who manages the analyst underneath them - you likely get to delegate the details of execution to your associate to divide with the analyst. As an MBB manager, you are typically directly managing 3-4, sometimes even 5 resources, and they will all have a range of experience / competence (this is by design). You need to know how to mentor and support an early career hire to help them understand how to do their properly, and you also need to know how to work with more experienced resources to optimize their output. You need to be on top of both execution and content for each of your direct report's workstreams, and you need to understand how to tie that content together into a coherent story. And on top of all that, you need to manage the client AND partner team day to day and make sure that their input is sufficiently captured. It's a thankless job.
I wouldn't make this jump unless you're absolutely sure consulting is the career for you - it sounds like comp is a concern for you, and your exits out of consulting at the manager or AP level won't be that exciting to someone coming from IB.
If after all this you're interested in joining, absolutely aim to join *without* tenure credit, because you want as much time as possible to learn the ropes and show that you deserve to be promoted. Hell, I'd even consider joining at the post-MBA level (maybe with an accelerated timeline to promo).
Having worked with ex-MBB people and in more of a consulting model, I prefer having more people to less. Maybe it’s just my EB, but I end up working with the Associate and Analyst directly anyway. Either the Associate is fresh out of MBA and isn’t experienced enough to manage the analyst or it’s more efficient to talk to them at the same time.
What you’re describing isn’t too different from the VP level in IB. You need to translate the senior team’s 3 sentences into material for the Associates and Analysts to put together, and they often have a million questions about where to find information or how to do things. Then you are expected to manage the client on top of that.
Maybe it’s just the past few years but IB comp is one of the biggest bait and switches. Sure it’s like 500-700k TC for each year but a much larger portion of that is deferred stock and the benefits (health, retirement etc) are horrific compared to MBB. Not to mention the people in IB are worse by far and the hours ain’t good either.
Not in MBB but at an EB and am extensively working with one of the MBBs for a big project.
Not sure if you ever worked with consultants before but how they think is very different from IB thinking process. IB is very focused on analysis in general and the meaning derived from it, more like a bottom up approach.
For MBBs, they think from top down, meaning they focus on “frameworks” and “themes” before going down the details. This causes a lot of conflict between bankers and consultants when they work together (personal experience).
Might be different in your case but just an FYI. Also the quality of MBB talent most likely will be lower assuming you are from a top EB with a group with strong deal flow. Have seen decks from MBBs with questionable footnotes (Bain/BCG/Mck Analysis and expert interviews do not mean anything, you can literally make stuff up out of thin air and justify it as from the “experts” or a “propriety” analysis) and lower quality in attention to detail.
But again, this is just my 2 cents, and your experience might completely differ. Not saying all MBBs are like this - might be just the team I’m working with.
Appreciate the detailed reply. This is an interesting take. I worked with ex-MBB for many years before joining IB and generally agree with your observations. I am primarily thinking of switching because I think the MBB + IB skillset would be a unique combination and the exits from MBB would be better.
MBB certainly think more top down which I think is a more useful skill set to hone. For one, this is more similar to how C-level executives think and expect you to operate. They want the “so what” and the big thematic trends that are going to shape their business so they can form the long-term strategy. The M&A work is more of a tactical “how” they go about this. I personally find bottom up thinking and analysis to be excruciating and creates more a feel of running around in a disorganized fashion rather than having a cohesive top down approach.
The bankers I’ve worked with also have horrendous people and communication skills versus those with consulting backgrounds. In some ways, the MBB people I worked with were stronger (project management, communication, slide creation) and in others EB is stronger (willingness to work and respond all the time, ability to absorb yelling of senior team and appear unscathed, financial analysis, attention to detail).
I don’t think either role is perfect but MBB does anecdotally and from LinkedIn searches, seem to set people up better for exits at the post-MBA level. PL/EM (2 years post MBA) and Principal/AP (4 years post MBA) can get a wide range of exits to probably VP or Head of Strategy roles at corporates or startups. VP (3.5 years post MBA) can at best get a Director of Corp Dev role. The comp potential at the MBB exits is far superior. Corp Dev roles are generally a dead end.
Currently are the worst times in consulting since 2008. Firms laying off lots of people. A lot of experienced hire managers that were hired in the last 2 years are finding it tough to find projects due to lack of internal network vs homegrown talent. Very bad timing to move now - don't recommend
Noticed that you mentioned coverage-focused VP. Just an idea, but perhaps you could look into the expert track of consulting at a mid-level specialist / expert role or so. I think some firms even have a partner track in place for that type of role. I think the caveat is that people usually come in from industry roles into this track, and I’m not sure if the same could be applied with IB Covg. experience - sort of a hypothetical here
Definitely possible. When I was at MBB I worked with a direct hire Partner who came from a BB. He covers FIG and works a lot with MM PE clients on CDD engagements. He had to “apprentice” as an AP for a bit but was essentially guaranteed promotion to Partner when hired
Minima sed numquam rerum tenetur laboriosam nemo. Et veniam suscipit et dolor quas commodi. Dolorum ut dolores necessitatibus atque maiores. Nemo sed totam voluptates recusandae et et et reiciendis.
Quas maxime molestias tenetur odit. Perspiciatis quo consectetur impedit et ex harum rerum.
Corporis necessitatibus at unde aut ut quia quo. Dolore quod quia velit quas numquam facere.
Dolor aut labore accusamus quia earum repudiandae laborum. Est impedit dolores dolorum sapiente perferendis est. Eveniet nihil earum vel provident. Hic aut aliquam et repellendus recusandae eum. Est ut quam sit iste.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...