Are all IB analysts this abrasive?
I just had an interview for an IB analyst position after I got caught up in layoffs at the fund. It is really tough in the ER/HF space so I decided to keep an open mind and try IB cause I am still early in my career (mid 20s).
The guy who interviewed me was brutally honest, but at the same time so abrasive. Dude straight up told me CFA has no value, and that any modeling experience doesn’t matter cause it ain’t at their level (IB or that firm’s standards? unsure). I asked him what he thinks I could improve since I don’t come from an IB background, and he straight up told me he couldn’t say because it depends on how I execute daily the job’s functions (fair enough), except that if that is the case, why even ask me technicals? Is it just to test my composure? Because that reply felt like the technicals are a lose-lose (either I suck or they don’t matter).
Dude also straight up told me that the business is very transactional and it is all about the money, that they don’t care to understand the business beyond what is sufficient. He told me it is hellishly long hours (fine with that), that you work weekends (fine with that too), and that these tasks are brain-dead. I sympathize with knowing the sufficient amount because IB is a transactional and fast-paced sector, but goddamn the man sounded so jaded. Basically boiled down to: “it is all about the money, there is nothing besides it, no meaningful analysis or vision, and you suck regardless of how well you perform in the technicals. And also your attempts to improve yourself do not matter, there is nothing you can do to improve besides working.”
I think I am gonna step away from the process. Not cause of the workload or anything, but rather that he made it seem like I will be a mindless drone and there is nothing meaningful besides the amount of 0s on a paycheck. I don’t mind putting up with mindless work early in my career, it is the standard after all, but just as long as I can gain skills and become a better investment professional, with the ability to use those skills to make big decisions as I progress through my career. I like money, but it alone does not drive me to work for anything.
Sounds like a straight shooter, OP. do you think everyone on this website is just pretending to complain about their job every day?
Don’t get me wrong, I really appreciate that he is honest and direct. It is just that, well, it seems a very pessimistic/bleak view of IB. I mean, I cannot fathom that an MD who has been doing IB for 30 years is somehow in it solely for the money to this day. There must be some other part of the job that is enjoyable. That is my opinion at least.
Above all, there must at least be some skills that are worthwhile when transferring to PE or HF. He made it seem like IB has no transferrable skills
Well he’s clearly in it for his ego, which is sad if he *only* talks to juniors with this sort of demeanor. And yes, many people just do it for the money. The do thrive or at least handle the pressure and may have other outlets for actual enjoyment once they make it to the senior ranks (golf, expensive travel, family, etc).
You came from the buyside… of course banking looks shallow.
No. Dude was an asshole. You do not want to join whatever this firm is.
Sounds like an typical MM M&A banker
The guy is burnt out so you might want to avoid that firm but he's right in saying that the CFA is useless in IB/PE lol
Id rather someone tell me straight up the expectations than make their team out to be easier than it is in reality. I’ve met tons of very nice and down to earth IB interviewers and maybe 25% as straight shooters to the point of coming off as harsh/abrasive. Tbh I’ve become like that with some people in my personal life that are constantly asking me simple questions nonstop and wasting time with useless energy draining conversations. No one got the time for all that and this interviewer has probably interviewed tons of bug eyed analysts thinking of IB as this evergreen land where all of your fairytales and dreams of success come true. When in reality it’s just a time consuming high intensity job that will pay you 50k more than your 2nd best option
The guy sounds like a dick.
In my experience, people who talk like that and who consider themselves part of the "tough crowd" usually weren't the best performers.
He was probably jealous given your HF background ...
Exactly this. Sounds like the interviewer has no EQ
It might help you to view interviews as more of a competition and less of an evaluation.
Here is what I mean:
Think about how the conversation led to this statement and then circle back to discuss why you can do the job and what your strengths are.
I don't hold this against either of you...they are an analyst and I don't expect them to have the experience or the knowledge to answer this...but you should keep in mind you were the one who asked.
They still have to follow a fairly consistent process in line with what all the other candidates have to deal with. Technical questions are a part of the process. Interviews don't belong to the junior staff even if it may feel that way as a candidate.
It is tough to know what to say and how someone will react to it. Not much you can do except try to move the conversation forward.
Can't really comment on this without being there. Next time you feel like this you need to remind yourself that you have already gotten the interview.
Is this really prudent? You had an experience you're not happy with but it should not put you off of deciding your own path.
A lot of recruiting comes down to chance. Maybe you'll do better next time. Maybe not. Try to avoid letting your job search get you down.
This person just sounds really burnt out and potentially trying to warn you away from this firm. I'd treat it as at least an orange flag, if everyone you talk to is miserable might want to keep recruiting.
Not sure if I understand the context. Why do you talk to an analyst in your interviews? Are you interviewing for an internship position in some no name bank?
Most analysts after 12 months on the job, barely understand what the whole deal is about and how complex it could be. The best bankers actually care about the business models and they do take time to understand what the different complements are - man, when I was an analyst, I was doing chemicals for some time, and every time when discussing targets with MD (he had 18+ years of experience) he kept asking me detailed questions about various chemical components and then in the culmination of this I had to benchmark and map out all the pesticides and herbicides when Dow / DuPont was happening and what assets would be blocked and sold to who.
That’s literally about the most basic and fundamental thing you can do in Chemicals… if you aren’t doing that then what are you doing
Exactly! But point is - in each sector you need to go deep. When I was doing telco, I did not have a very great MD (moved to EB), and he was just super busy and could not fully tell the difference between fibre and DSL(shocking!!!) so I just kept doing how I was told and clients just loved the level of analysis.
If someone tells you that IB is only about slides and making them pretty and deep knowledge is secondary, run from that person
IB ppl are so burnt out they dont typically show niceties and just go straight to the point. Im sure they wud still enjoy some nice tities tho.
IB just burns you the fuck out and leaves a shell of an analyst who is too tired to put up with shit.
Just reality.
Your interviewer is right:
1. A CFA has no value in banking. It may be a useful thing to have done, but confers you no advantage and ultimately you will have to unlearn CFA finance and relearn what is relevant for banking
2. Modelling skills acquired outside of banking have no value in banking. You will have to unlearn what you know and relearn in a specific value.
3. The job of a banker is to get transactions done for clients. Understanding underlying businesses is only useful insofar as it assists in getting the transaction done: I am very wary of bankers who claim to be “industry experts” because that’s a completely superfluous trait.
4. It is right and natural for bankers to be motivated by money. Our job is to make money for our clients. If you don’t care about money, how can you be good at your job?
Banking models are useless.
All models are useless
Oh shit, the PE account thinks our model sucks. Uhhhh, uhhhhh I know!!!! Let's send him a new model that has twice as many tabs as the first one, with three times the number of interwoven assumptions!!!!
On another note, I think it is up to the members of the team to make the work environment a good one. If he was an asshole to you then that would show me the rest of his team is an asshole to him. Especially if he is just an analyst.
Some hints of gate keeping abrasiveness, but overall sounds jaded and honest.
Your interviewer doesn't seem that bad and I don't see anywhere where he was attacking you personally. To be honest, it seemed like the interview went really well where he wanted to give a long-winded, straight-forward perspective when he didn't need to do that. I wouldn't be surprised if you made it to the next round or got an offer. He just wanted to make sure you understand what you're getting yourself into.
So if interviewers want to sugar coat what they do = "BULLSHIT, they're delusional! LMAO if they think I'm buying that, I'm for the BIG BUCKS BABY LET'S GO"
If they interviewers tells you straightforward 0 bullshit what they do and how the reality of the job is like = no bueno
I mean, the guy just gave you the 100% reality of the job and even one's career. I really have no critique to what he said. It was so straightforward that you can't possibly go to him, after 3-6 months in the job, and say "but you told me X or you said Z but I did not happen, see" or thoughts such as "I did not sign for this".
I mean, yeah, working with him may be boring as fuck, but in terms of what he said I see 0 issues.
Projection obviously, take it for what it is worth. Sounds like someone who is disillusioned.
Honestly sounds like It came to a point he's kinda mad that he got into something so "prestigious" just for It to be brain dead work. I felt like that when I was in S&T. Based on my personal experience, I'd say there's a good chance he wants to leave and kind of projected that into you.
I’m not sure if people are just memeing, but yeah, I’d say this is out of the ordinary, and the guy sounds like an asshole. I’ve interviewed and sat in a number of interviews, and I can’t imagine just disrespecting the person across from me no matter how poorly the interview went. I mean, I guess I’m not sure of the context, but I don’t think I’d ever say that something on someone’s resume has no value. That’s pretty rude.
That being said, there are some elements of truth to what he said, but starting from the top:
Overall, the guy probably gave you an idea of how a decent chunk of bankers feel after a year or two (sometimes shorter), but to answer your question, no not everyone would be that abrasive. If seeing that opinion on banking makes you want to step away, honestly, that’s a good thing. I would only enter IB if I had a good idea of what I wanted out of it. To be more specific, I don’t even think “money” is a good enough answer on its own because most people leave before they can really build up some solid savings during IB. Exit opps is a much better motivation, but you just need to be comfortable with what those are.
He was harsh but not wrong. This job is straight up useless. Nothing you do has any sort of purpose except to make your MD money - that’s it. You will sacrifice every part of your personal life and your mental and physical health for it. The pay is good as you well know, but think about what it really looks like before you go down this path, I know I’d thought harder about it before coming back full time
Most juniors cover a sector. It’s difficult to win / lead a mandate without an in-house industry banker covering the sector. I don’t see why a CEO or Entrepreneur would engage with a bank that didn’t have an industry banker covering the sector over a competitor. They down played industry knowledge in my view (without knowing the specific firm or group)
OP I'm not in the same subsector of finance as you are but I gave you MS because I think you're extrapolating a lot of stuff and attributing terms like 'abrasive' to someone who doesn't deserve it. It's one thing to feel a certain way then it's another to go on a public forum to complain to the rest of the world (well the rest of the industry) about it.
What I could gather is that your interviewer was just explaining the cold facts to you without complaining about the job or his status in the role. Doesn't sound like there was a single complaint in what your interviewer said. He was likely answering your questions as truthfully to the best of his abilities. Just a friendly reminder explaining to you what the facts are so you can get a sense for what you're getting into.
I'd shake his hand and salute him for this level of honesty and transparency. It's so rare to find nowadays. If this guy ever becomes your colleague, he'd likely be one of the most reliable people.
Tbh, I'd stay away from anyone who tries to sugar coat things. They cannot be trusted.
PS: People who say this guy is so "jaded" doesn't seem to get it. There are plenty of people with a "it's a job that needs to get done" mentality. Think they make the best bankers tbh.
It sounds like he doesn’t want to be in his own industry.
It’s understandable he may feel that way but if you told him what he told you, he would make the excuse that you don’t really want to be in IB.
And that is exactly why no amount of money will ever make me do IB. Gotta appreciate the guy's honesty though, most others would be busy putting their job and themselves on a pedestal and jerking off to how much they learnt adjusting logos and being a robot, and sacrifice weekends and proper 7h sleep for that. Most jobs at the junior level are grunt work but none nearly as much as IB. There's this survey that was done on people in their deathbeds and asking them what they regretted the most in their lives. Working too much, not spending eough time with family, and not travelling enough were ALL on the list.
Also you don't really value companies with your models I heard. Your MD is gonna give you a value and you have to tweak the forecasts to arrive at that figure
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