BB SA vs MM SA
Hi everyone,
Final year uni monkey here, aiming for a career in IB. I'm currently offered two Summer Analyst positions, and would appreciate any advice on how to choose, and what to prioritise when considering my options.
The first option is a BB SA position, a sector group that is strong within the bank. The reputation of the bank is great, lots of deal exposure and growth opportunities. However, after some coffee chats, I realised that they have a toxic culture and less friendly team members. While I recognise the nature of a professional, work environment, I feel that it is more difficult to 'fit in' and get to know everyone under a highly stressful environment. Honestly, the thought of not converting my second summer internship haunts me.
The second one seems more attainable to convert into a full time, given their historical high conversion rates and nice team culture - I really bonded with the team through interviews. Despite so, the nature of an internship remains as a 10-week interview process, so it is not in my advantage to 'expect' any results upon the end of internship. Additionally, I'm uncertain on the learning curve in a MM vs BB as a summer analyst.
Zooming out of the picture, it seems like a choice of risk and return. A high risk high return vs low risk low return. Conversion is important, given that I am in my final year of university. Nevertheless, I fear I am putting too much weight on this, and am opting for job security rather than ambitions. But is that such a bad idea? Perhaps some of you also have or had the same concern. I would appreciate any input on how to navigate through this position.
Thanks and happy new year!
Based on the most helpful WSO content, here's how you can approach this decision:
Learning Curve and Exit Opportunities: A BB SA position typically offers stronger deal exposure, a steeper learning curve, and better exit opportunities, especially if the group is strong within the bank. This can be a significant advantage if you're aiming for top-tier PE, HF, or other competitive roles post-IB. However, the toxic culture you mentioned could hinder your ability to perform and learn effectively.
Culture and Conversion Rates: The MM SA position seems to have a more supportive team culture and higher conversion rates. This could provide a better environment for you to thrive, especially if you're concerned about fitting in and securing a full-time offer. A positive culture often translates to better mentorship and a more enjoyable experience, which can be crucial for long-term success.
Risk vs. Return: As you mentioned, this decision boils down to risk and return. The BB option is higher risk (due to culture and conversion concerns) but potentially higher return (better brand and exit opps). The MM option is lower risk (better culture and conversion rates) but may have slightly less prestigious exit opportunities.
Final Year Consideration: Since you're in your final year, securing a full-time offer is critical. If you feel the toxic culture at the BB could jeopardize your performance and chances of conversion, the MM might be the safer bet. Remember, a full-time role at a reputable MM is far better than no offer at all.
Long-Term Perspective: Think about where you see yourself in 5-10 years. If the BB aligns more with your long-term goals and you're confident you can navigate the challenging culture, it might be worth the risk. If you're prioritizing job security and a supportive environment, the MM could be the better choice.
Ultimately, trust your instincts and weigh what matters most to you—prestige and exit opps vs. culture and conversion security. Both paths can lead to successful careers in IB if you make the most of the opportunity. Good luck!
Sources: An Honest reflection from my first Summer Analyst role: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly (mainly bad and ugly), Q&A 2.0: 3rd Year BA/A/AC At MBB Going To UMM/MF This Summer, Q&A: 1st Year Analyst at MM IB, Post MBA IB: deciding which group?, BB Wholesale Credit Versus MM / Regional Bank IB
bump for visibility, good luck
Bump! Not too sure of the right way to go about this, I hope you get a good answer!
bump
Hey, firstly, congrats on your offers! Getting two summers in this economy is no small feat.
I just wanted to offer some things to think about, but with a huge caveat that I'm not any more in the know than you are. I know people in similar positions (I'm also a final year student who's having to redo a summer, because I didn't convert my last one) and I think there's a lot more pressure the second time round. You're terrified by the prospect of not converting, and under a lot of pressure to do well. So obviously, you want to be somewhere where you think you can thrive.
But look, depending on what your goals are, you can't deny that there is a certain amount of CV-maxing that you need to do. If you're looking to break into HF/PE, the strong brand names go a really long way, and if you don't start at the BB, you'll likely still have to consider lateraling to one at some point if you want to even be noticed by headhunters (from what I understand from the few that I've spoken to).
But honestly, I think that what's really important is actual survival on the job. I know it's ten weeks. I know you'll be fine, no matter which opportunity you take. But the ten week stint is a good reflection of what it'll be like when you return. Do they expect interns to stay till 3am even if there's no real reason to be in the office then? What are the analysts' lives like? What is the team culture like - is it cliquey? Are people approachable? What do people from other teams at the same bank say about it (I didn't realise how big a factor that was until last summer, when I interned in a team which was apparently known for being kinda shitty to its interns, which wasn't common across all the teams on the floor)? You can survive anything for ten weeks, after all, there is a constant countdown of weeks, and anything is doable when it's only a matter of weeks before it's over. But once you're FT, there isn't really an end gate or escape in near sight.
Let's be real, of course you're essentially picking between the lesser of two evils here. IBD is IBD no matter where you go, and the unpredictability and bad hours are somewhat the name of the game. That being said, I think that in this situation, getting along with the people you work with makes more of a difference than ever. Even if you're not friends, you should be friendly... you shouldn't feel like you've been thrown into the deep end with no real sense of support or mentorship.
I recognise how difficult all of this is to ascertain beforehand. While it's good that you seem to have that figured about the BB, there's no guarantee that the MM will be much better. MMs can also be really sweaty, and you could end up resenting the fact that you're going through so much without a stronger brand name on your CV.
So one other thing I'd say you should consider is the actual nature of the work itself. Are the groups in a sector you want to work in? It's all well and good if there's good deal flow, but can you see yourself actually being interested in reading lengthy documents about governance or industry-specific details that you've to account for in your model, for that sector? Are they sectors which could be difficult to initially understand, and does the team seem willing to be of help here?
Also, regarding the actual work, I'm not too sure what kind of BB you're at, but having interned at a large bank last year, one thing I do know is that they don't only do M&A, and often, the sector group works in complement to the M&A group. Whereas at a MM, they likely run the whole process. They also work on smaller deals, and a large number of these will likely be private. So the nature of these deals will be different. Furthermore, they may also require different levels of intern contribution. Of course, it's only ten weeks, so you're not going to actually be doing too much anyway, but do you want to be involved in more pitching? What kind of things do you want to get exposed to?
Putting brand name and comp aside (if those haven't been deciding factors yet, I'm going to assume you're looking at other things), I think that at this stage in our careers, what matters is learning as much as possible, through shadowing and actual desk work. The more you learn, the more confident you'll feel, and the less affected you'll be by other factors.
I know loads of people who started their careers in MMs or similar, learnt a lot, and later lateraled to bigger banks, either to stick around in IB or move to buyside (not to say you can't move from an MM, but of course, it'll likely be a lil less straightforward and more complicated). And they really thrived there, because they'd picked up a lot and had meaningful contributions to the work they did. That being said, I also know people who started off straight away at BBs and EBs and struggled initially but learnt to thrive once they traversed the learning curve (and many who didn't manage to do that). What I'm trying to say is, it depends on you as a person. Do you think you'll double down under the pressure, or will it get to you? Do you think you could learn more from the people at the MM or the BB, and are you someone who could get fazed by an unfriendly, competitive culture? Do you trust yourself enough to know that if over the course of the past 2 years, you've managed to get at least 3 summers, then you are doing things right, and you will be okay no matter what path you choose?
I'm sorry I couldn't give you a definitive answer - I'm in no position to be able to do that, and frankly, I don’t think there even is a right answer - whatever you choose will be a good decision, as long as you think it through. Best of luck with your decision, and know that you'll be okay :)
Odds are you will have an all around better experience at the MM (better culture, more responsibility/opportunities, better QoL).
If the MM is a respectable group with good leadership then definitely a good option, although merit in both.
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