behavorial ? answers
is it always better to answer behavioral question with examples from your summer analyst stint instead of school activities?
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I've used school examples primarily and it hasn't hindered my offers. If the interviewer starts asking about your SA stint and is signaling he/she wants to touch that more than school, roll with the punches and adapt.
bump.
yeah i'm going to bump this too.
My experience in interviewing is that we really don't give a shit what your answers to behav questions are, we usually ask them to fill time. They can't help you, but could hurt you if you say something stupid. In fact, if I even find myself asking any of the typical bullshit questions, you have probably already eliminated yourself in the opening minutes for one reason or another. If we hit it off in the first couple of minutes, the interview will be mostly shooting the shit, and I'll try to see if you know whats going on and if you have any intelligent insight. I and most other interviewers don't really care about technicals either b/c we know that most people just memorize them, and that it is not too complicated. Every once in a while if we have a cocky shithead student from Stern or another undergrad biz school come in that thinks hes the shit, we will go full out technicals on the kid. Even if they get everything right, they killed themselves within a minute for being a pain in the ass. In fact on a couple of occasions, I am almost positive I have seen some of these kids post on here that night asking if they got the answers correct. Moral of the story is, banking is not rocket science. We are looking for real people that we don't mind hanging with during the day and long nights. A lot of the "semi-targets" typically those from undergrad business schools often come on here complaining how its so tough to get in even when they know their stuff, but the kids from the ivys, LACs, and non-targets are doing better. The kids from the ivys and LACs often are better equipped better for interviews because they grew up interacting with people at country clubs and parties, and they are not shitting their pants going into an interview. In fact, if you know these groups well, they have almost no doubts that they will get into banking, and they usually are correct, its just a matter of where. While I have met a lot of these kids in the office, I don't really see too many people with this type of attitude on this site. Another group that I see doing well, are kids from bumblefuck state school in the middle of nowhere. Assuming they know how to get their resume in front of me, they tend to be much more interesting people than the northeast state school kids that have always known they wanted to go to wall street but were too damn stupid to get into the proper school to get them there.
I know I'm stereotyping here, and will probably get shit for doing so, but the posts I read on this site are extremely stereotypical of the immigrants and losers I went to school with and that I interview. Everyone gets so caught up in the most minute details such as clothes, watches, briefcases, interview questions, etc. when these are the least likely things to get you a job. If you are under a junior in school and you want to know what to do with your spare time, go caddy at a country club, or hell anything that will make you comfortable going into a room and having a natural conversation with wealthy people whom you aspire to work with in the future. I will say it one last time, this is not work for geniuses. Some of the most successful people I know in the industry are not unusually bright. Brains will not get you in. Social skills will. If you don't have them, do whatever you need to do to get them to succeed in life. I'm rambling, but one last story. A lot of guys I went to HS with ended up not making it onto wall st. (mind you that we graduated during good times). Inevitably, every single one of them had a different excuse. one guy said that his friend who was working at a prestigious boutique told him it was a terrible year for recruiting, another friend blamed it on the banks not coming to his school, another blamed it on a bad interview streak, another bitched that his network screwed him. Lots of these guys read this site and other similar sites, and thought they had their plan Bs worked out. They went to law school, after all, no interviews required, and thought they'd get into big law, and then they'd lateral to IB or go to B-school. Guess what, these are now the guys that you hear about who can't get jobs out of top law schools, and they spent another 150k on education. The same skills they were lacking in banking interviews, they were lacking in law interviews. Its the hardest thing for anyone to do, but you need to self-evaluate to correct your flaws. They will not disappear on their own. Just my two cents, which I think could help a lot of the people on this site. I read lots of excuses and self pity, when anyone who had ever been on the other side of the table can see right thru it. Sure, there are bankers on here who will tell you that all is well and you can still get in no matter who you are, but these same people are often trying to pimp their personal sites trying to sell you investment banking guides, courses, or resumes for hundreds of dollars. I respect their entrepreneurship, but I think the information given and sought here is detrimental to interview candidates and has spawned a new breed of aspiring IBer which on the whole is unimpressive.
Great Post
yuntsucks, thanks for the essay you fucking tool. Your whole post reeks of "I went to a non-target, now my life is complete bc I work on sub-$5mm equity offerings at Piper Jaffray/Thomas Weisel." Here are a couple highlights from your post:
Classy, dude. Again thanks for your insight - but guess what? Nobody on this board is interested in working at your shitty regional boutique where you do "M&A" with mom 'n pop thrift stores.
Just the opposite. I went to wharton, worked at a Canadian top-5, and I'm now working at a BB in NY. It sounds like I struck a chord with you. So much so that you registered on this site just to try to debase my statements. Are you worried that your parents also read the site and will think, "we spent so much money on after school tutoring for him so he will make it in America, when we should have signed him up for social skills classes". The truth hurts, you sound like just the person you described, and are just like all my friends who have excuses why they didn't make it. And if you think Piper and TW would do a 5 mil. equity follow on, you have just proven my point that your sole source of information is this website, and thats likely why you eliminate yourself within the first 90 seconds of an interview.
He's right, you're wrong, and you sound like a complete tool. Ignore his advice at your own peril.
He's right, you're wrong, and you sound like a complete tool. Ignore his advice at your own peril.
I don't care for much target vs. nontarget, prestige arguments, how much Jeffries sucks, but I, and everyone else, would appreciate some feedback on the OP's questions.
I agree with yuntsucks comments. At my school (cdn target, all the major US and CDN banks recruited), most of the ppl that went to IB were smart. Those that weren't so bright that made it in, were those that had the social skills to make them likable enough to pass through. It's really a matter of if the interviewers connect with you or not...
Conversely, a friend who was considered brilliant by his peers, profs and also interviewers had a lot of interviews but trouble sealing the deal. It's because he's pretty introverted. Nice guy, but not the type of person who would make friends with everyone the first time you meet him. He did end up at a top bank, but it took a lot of effort.
Regarding behaviorals though, I've had those for interviews where I've both got the offer and got dinged. I don't see a real pattern as to "behaviorals = interviewers are just killing time and you've dinged yourself". But from my experience, the ones that have resulted in offers - are the ones where some (or at least one) of the meetings felt like conversations. Shooting the shit (if they were alums, talking about which courses were good, and which ones were ass; joked about info sessions and how some kids were acting kinda douchey... because the school career mgnt told them to be 'assertive', etc.)
...
Sorry double post
I don't think it matters too much whether you answer behavioral Qs with examples from summer stints vs. school. Just whichever examples best illustrates your point. I used both work and school examples...
If you can use your internships, then it makes for a more practical real-life out-of-school example, but obviously, your internship is pretty short... you probably won't be able to answer all 'give me an example of going above expectations/dealing with conflicts/stepping up as leader/etc' with a summer of work.
The answer to the OP's question is: It doesn't matter at all. If you worked as a SA, I can assure you that the bank will ask you more than enough questions to sufficiently determine the quality of your experience. Don't feel the need to force yourself to answer behaviorals with SA examples if they are not the best examples you have. In fact, I'd try to vary your examples from different experiences to prove out how well-rounded you are.
As for yuntsucks comments, I disagree with his assessment on the value of behavioral questions. Everyone runs their interviews differently, so reading into things is a terrible idea. However, I do agree that the ability to communicate and properly convey your message is far more important than the message actually conveyed.
~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker
CompBanker, what kind of questions to assess the quality of an internship are we talking about?
I am sure some people actually ask the behavioral questions seriously, usually because HR gives a list of sample questions to ask. But, think about it this way. If I am actually taking the interview seriously and finding the best person for my firm (which believe it or not is not necessarily always the case), I am not interested in a scripted performance that tells me how well the candidate has prepared answers for questions they think will be coming. What does any answer to the question for "tell me about a time time you were working in a group that had a conflict", the person could make up anything based on the script he received to answer such a question from this site, career center, vault, etc. In fact, it probably tells me more if the answer is too quick. If I see a kid has a 3.5 GPA at a decent school, I'd much rather shoot the shit with him. It can tell you infinitely more than scripted answers that anyone with half a brain could memorize. As for the HR evaluations we have to fill out, we just BS those anyways to support whatever decision we made. After all, its not as if the kid could appeal to HR to get the offer.
yuntsucks, thanks dude. I appreciate the no-BS attitude.
I've got a question I'd like to throw at you: how informal or formal should interviewees be? should you really act like you're talking to an equal friend, minus the 'fucking' etc? also, does it depend on what level/position your interviewer is at?
I've just found that whenever I'm at events with people not my age, I'm naturally much more formal, though not up-tight, than I would be with friends, and I'm not sure if this attitude is best going into ib interviews. Although I probably wouldn't call you "dude" in an interview like I did just now.
you gotta size up the interviewer as quickly as you can. I don't mean to make it seem like banking is such a homogeneous place, and there is any one thing that will get you in. I am sure there are certain shops or interviewers that are looking for pure "technical" knowledge. Based on having been on both sides of the table, you should strive for the equal friend approach, but no matter how friendly or sociable you are, you will not necessarily hit it off with everyone. If you feel you are not hitting it off, your only backup plan is to try to strut your brains or other abilities. One thing to look out for is when the interviewer is not necessarily the most sociable person themselves. Lots of people do not realize it when they themselves are awkward, and will still be looking to bring in the Type A personable types that they envision themselves to be.
yuntsucks is right. i had dinner with a MD at Morgan Stanley and he basically told me the same thing.
This is my first post but I have to agree with a lot of what "yuntsucks" commented on in his first post.
I think social skills and the ability to operate in different scenarios with people from all backgrounds is a very useful tool that is commonly underestimated.
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