BofA VPs - What's Your Plan?
Let's face it - most of you have been picking up after the massive associate bloat (good chunk of which are awful and just hanging around), in addition to doing your job. You've been working harder and getting paid like an analyst. We keep hearing that business is better, but every competitor on the street continues to pay multiples of what you're getting. What's your plan come bonus time? Will three years of shit bonuses be the last straw? Market is turning and competitors have started to hire again. The plan for me is to leave if they don't hit a number I have in mind. Same with a lot of other VPs / Ds in other groups. Lot of key exits in the works if February isn't strong. If they leave, the MDs are stuck holding the bag of associates on many live deals with no one in between. Think this coming February will make or break most groups What's your plan?
I think you nailed it. I always hated the idea of moving shop since I hate having to readjust to a new culture and team but if they do not hit a number for me this year or find a way to get rid of the grifters I am out. The bank has always been lower end of market pay but the last 3 out of 4 years has been unacceptable. More crappy juniors with more protections while VPs are left holding the bag and getting terrible pay makes the value proposition here just not worth it from any angle.
Not a VP, but I agree that the hiring market has definitely picked up
Are you at a BB? Has analyst hiring picked up too?
in what level bank (MM, BB, boutique)? curious to hear the general sentiment of hiring
Agree with what you’ve said - I will absolutely leave if I don’t hit a certain number and my number in mind is not an unreasonable ask.
What has VP comp been at each level?
I’ve heard numbers ranging from 0 to 150k for bonuses at all levels. Bear in mind after like 100k, about 35% is stock that vests over four years. Very very subpar and way behind JPM, GS, MS and pretty much any IB
Base is 275
youve heard of investment banking receiving bonuses lower than $150k?! holy shit lol
Hahahahahahaha…hold on….hahahahahahaha
Still makes me cry after I moved back from NYC and saw the material difference in base salaries (even after FX).
Bases are crazy in the US vs Europe.
Exit into a higher tier BB (GS, MS, RBC)
I see what you did there.
Congrats on GS/MS.
Hah - I'm sure you're gunning for the first two but my bonus at RBC was $375k as a VP3 in a down year so if you do end up here, maybe not so bad.
Holy fuck, that’s like BofA’s entire VP bonus pool
Hopefully I’ll stand a shot at RBC after getting into Blackstone/Brookfield.
Jokes aside, good for you man congrats
Well said. Bonus may be good from the firm’s perspective but highly doubt it would be good vs market rate. Being asked to work more than seniors when they were at our level but with no leverage from the junior level. Taking our work for granted... Even with the right number, not sure if worth staying.
Well said. I'm in a similar boat. Twice as many MDs to report to than other firms, minimal junior resources and abysmal pay. Like god awful pay. It's not worth it to be a VP at BofA. You'd get paid more being an Associate 2 at some MMs. Morale at the VP level is rock bottom. Like others mentioned, I have a number in mind as well and if it isn't met this February, I'm leaving too. It's just not worth it. Other firms are starting to hire too. Funny thing is the OP is right. Very few of the A&As actually have deal experience because all the good ones left; I know it's the same for other VPs in my group and other groups but if we left, the MDs will need to do all the execution lol
how is hiring for you been? are banks starting to pick hiring up with interest rates etc
Dear gosh. That's pretty much same pay as MBB at comparable level. And I probably work way lower hours. This is why I come here. Thanks for making me feel a lot better about my job. Wish you guys the best
What level are you and what are your hours?
At my mbb, VP equivalent (i think?) is around 240 base, 100 target bonus, 50 profit sharing.
Bonus can be higher or lower based on performance. Profit sharing is assuming a normal year, which it hasn't been for quite some time. Back in the covid days when consulting was in demand, it was hitting super high. This year, it's minimal (last year was zero or near zero).
Hours vary by case / client / practice. Lighter practices can average maybe 65 hours a week. PE can range over 80 per week. But still better than banking unless I'm mistaken
Interested in this
Probably the "normal" amount that gets promoted every year. Everyone else (which is a lot of you since class sizes are huge) will probably get moved or booted.
MOVE THEM TO EGRC!
Delete
Agree with this 100%
Will call it now. BofA will drop the ball again and pay their VPs absolute shit in February (again) while not holding any of the deadweight associates or useless MDs accountable (again). They’re gonna pull that “well its a bad market but YoY, you’re making x% more” bullshit (again) but will be blind to the fact that it’s Year 4 of paying a fraction of what competing banks pay (again) and YoY% doesn’t mean shit. If comp comes even remotely close to competitors, it will probably have a massive stock component.
VPs will leave because of this and deal teams will fall apart since the VPs are the only ones with real execution experience. MDs/Ds will just push execution work down to the A&As because they need to focus on originating, and the quality of work will be shit. Bakeoffs will be shit and live deal execution will be shit. Meanwhile the market would be back in full swing and GS/MS/JPM (wherever the VPs leave to) will be in a much better position to win, execute and close.
This is part of why BofA will never make it past #3/#4. Mgmt will be back here a year from now scratching their heads on why they lost share and why the employee satisfaction survey results were so shitty (again).
Frankly, if you’re a VP at BofA, you should start looking. You could prob double or triple your comp at other banks, even some MM firms. Better WLB too.
This guy / gal knows.
My expectation
- Not as many folks leaving as expected
- Overall rebalance of pool towards lower-quality juniors
- New hires from MM, no-name boutiques, Big4
- The above will be eager to work and go up & above…
- …but will soon realize they are sweating for the wrong cause and eventually move over to continue pursuing up & above endeavours
- Second quality exodus
- Continued deterioration of morale in medium term
My predictions
- Not as many people will leave as expected in February
- Enough people will leave so that the talent pool will be rebalanced towards shitty people
- Will need to hire more people; given reputation issues, these will mostly come from small shops and big 4s
- Those guys will be eager to go up and above, humbled that they just broke into a bulge bracket
- Many of those will become frustrated in the medium term as they realize they are out of place given limited talent pool, compounded by unfair comp
- Then it will slowly keep spiralling downwards as those leave too, unless the division becomes a strategic priority for the board, which is clearly not the case today
It has happened before elsewhere
My predictions
- Not as many people will leave as expected in February
- Enough people will leave so that the talent pool will be rebalanced towards shitty people
- Will need to hire more people; given reputation issues, these will mostly come from small shops and big 4s
- Those guys will be eager to go up and above, humbled that they just broke into a bulge bracket
- Many of those will become frustrated in the medium term as they realize they are out of place given limited talent pool, compounded by unfair comp
- Then it will slowly keep spiralling downwards as those leave too, unless the division becomes a strategic priority for the board, which is clearly not the case today
It has happened before elsewhere
My predictions
- Not as many people will leave as expected in February
- Enough people will leave so that the talent pool will be rebalanced towards shitty people
- Will need to hire more people; given reputation issues, these will mostly come from small shops and big 4s
- Those guys will be eager to go up and above, humbled that they just broke into a bulge bracket
- Many of those will become frustrated in the medium term as they realize they are out of place given limited talent pool, compounded by unfair comp
- Then it will slowly keep spiralling downwards as those leave too, unless the division becomes a strategic priority for the board, which is clearly not the case today
It has happened before elsewhere
My predictions
1. Not as many people will leave as expected in February
2. Enough people will leave so that the talent pool will be rebalanced towards shitty people
3. Will need to hire more people; given reputation issues, these will mostly come from small shops and big 4s
4. Those guys will be eager to go up and above, humbled that they just broke into a bulge bracket
5. Many of those will become frustrated in the medium term as they realize they are out of place given limited talent pool, compounded by unfair comp
6. Then it will slowly keep spiralling downwards as those leave too, unless the division becomes a strategic priority for the board, which is clearly not the case today
It has happened before elsewhere
Called it.
I love these cry baby posts, like it’s so easy to just leave as a VP, since there are such a plethora of VP investment banking jobs out there.
Newsflash, you’re the loser at the bank, and no one forced you to stay.
If you’re such an all star, why aren’t you at Goldman already?
Hi bofa HR!
lol imagine being this dense. Not surprising coming from you though
I’m not the loser who stayed at a bad bank and then decided to cry about on the internet instead of leaving.
I also like how your title is you pretending to be in PE lol.
This tool is so ashamed he’s a VP in banking, he made his anonymous title a VP in PE when he posts. LOL.
Hiring market has picked up on both sides of the pond.
What I will say is the greatest demand for talent I've seen is good associates. They seem like a rare commodity nowadays.
VPs are dime a dozen at the moment because of a lot of similar issues at other banks.
Good luck for the move guys, time to head to the EBs and get paid!
Agreed - I’m seeing high demand for good associates and junior VPs, as they’re still junior enough to be in the weeds but still have some runway in front of them before hitting the senior level. Good associates and VPs that can run a process and have deal experience are very rare / valuable nowadays.
If you’re at BofA and getting underpaid (99% of you are), there are and will be plenty of opportunities to gtfo next year. Market is picking up and will continue to do so as rates fall and PE portfolio companies will begin to hit the end of their investment cycles from 2020-2021. Hang in there.
Is analyst hiring picking up too?
Large, guaranteed comp awaits you at WF. I bet you all would have a decent chance at making that happen, depending on the group.
What levels do they offer guarantees?
Yeah and a huge decline in your CV Value along with it.
The days of BofA thinking people will stay for the name brand are over
lmao since when did bofa command a cv premium to the extent ppl stayed for the brand name?
My predictions
Not as many people will leave as expected in February
Enough people will leave so that the talent pool will be rebalanced towards shitty people
Will need to hire more people; given reputation issues, these will mostly come from small shops and big 4s
Those guys will be eager to go up and above, humbled that they just broke into a bulge bracket
Many of those will become frustrated in the medium term as they realize they are out of place given limited talent pool, compounded by unfair comp
Then it will slowly keep spiralling downwards as those leave too, unless the division becomes a strategic priority for the board, which is clearly not the case today
It has happened before elsewhere
BofA is in HUGE trouble if they don’t pay market level bonuses to mid levels this year. My gut is telling me they won’t because BofA i) is cheap and ii) does not value its investment bank. Other banks like Barclays and citi also openly don’t value IB and pay better than BofA, but I digress. The bank pays so far below market that I can’t see them rising pay that fast, but we’ll see.
The MDs in my group definitely felt the loss of mid level talent this year. A bunch more solid associates and VPs are packed up and ready to go immediately if bonuses are not equal to market. Then you lose the good talent and retain the weak talent, and keep compounding the problem. The middle and top need to be paid market or the bank is going to spiral (bottom bucket should always get 0 or be fired).
I’m sure the decision makers at BofA are reading this and will still manage to fuck it up. The VP comp issue is crystal clear… they’ll be so surprised again when people leave after getting fucked for the third time in a row and everything falls apart. They will never learn. Like poster mentioned, VP bonuses this coming February will probably make or break groups
I wish BofA would care about loss of talent. They know they're getting 500k applications every year from ton of idiots who are lined up to work for 100hrs and end up with miserable bonuses.
Wow, didn't expect the thread to have this tone to it. Had no idea BofA seemed so intent on destroying their IB practice.
Is it true that you can sell stock based comp you get as VP only after four years? Did BofA really underpay the last two years? Comparing it to JPM, GS, and MS my impression was they all paid relatively shitty
Yes stock vests over 4 years. Usually amounts to 25-30% of bonus.
BofA has paid on the lower end of street the past few years (post covid), but last year was horrendous and mid levels received bonuses significantly below street. Way below GS/JP/MS and also below “less prestigious” banks like wells, RBC, Barclays, etc.
Further rubbing salt in the wound - Analysts this past summer received bonuses on par with VPs in some groups last year. I don’t know what the bank was thinking quite frankly.
Additionally, the bank has been gaining share the past few years and is firmly #3/4 in the league tables… there is no reason they should be paying their employees below competitors who have been losing share and have a fraction of the market share. A complete slap in the face.
So yeah, BBs typically pay below boutiques but I) the last couple years BofA has been on the lower end, and ii) last year’s bonuses were a complete joke and frankly made no sense. Probably trying to get people to quit on their own so they didn’t have to formally lay off juniors, but they were too dumb to realize this just pisses off the top performers and they are the ones who leave.
BofA doesn’t value its investment bank and views us as butts in seats, not human beings with varying levels of talent (like other banks that value their IB practice do).
I remember this pissing a lot of VPs off especially since half the A&As literally do nothing but send their work to offshore and wait for dinner. And now, if you are a VP, you can get scrutinized for asking your junior teams to work - so pretty minimal junior support. So the VP job has gotten harder because of the lack of real junior support, and it's annoying to get paid very slightly marginally better.
If they don't pay VPs this year, many/most will leave and teams will feel the burn. I think clients will probably feel this too because no one else at BofA really knows how to execute (or wants to, for the Ds/MDs) - except maybe a few strong ASO3 but they are probably just as pissed off.
If I were a competing bank, I'd probably start looking at poaching BofA VPs. Market is coming back, and ability to execute and win as many as you can will be so important. Plus, competitors' version of "normal VP pay" is BofA's version of "very very high VP pay", so it probably won't be hard to convince people to move. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the #3 spot up for grabs if BofA doesn't deliver to VPs this Feb.
Probably not worth speculating how the bonus will turn out in February, but I think associates will be in a much better spot given the current focus on juniors. Don’t believe seniors or the firm will strongly advocate for VPs. While seniors want to appear supportive of juniors, they still expect the same quality of work from VPs. This is why VPs, caught in the middle, are working so much and feeling frustruated. Ultimately, the firm is large enough to maintain stability even after hardworking & good VPs leave. Just my two cents. What matters most for everyone is determining whether this platform is good for our career growth in the near and long term, and whether it recognizes and rewards our contribution. If we belive it does, we stay; if not, we leave.
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