Can I break into IB without an undergraduate degree.
Hey Everyone. So I'm in a bit of a unique situation and was wondering on what my prospects are to break into investment banking in the UK. For context I don't have an undergraduate degree I left sixth form/college after A levels to pursue an apprenticeship program at one of the Big 4. I worked there for 2 years and completed some of the ACA exams (up to certificate level) aka the some of the exams for the CPA. I left it halfway to pursue an opportunity in front office asset management. I currently work as a credit investment specialist at a large institutional investor in the UK (with around 400 billion AUM). The investment specialist role pretty much sits in between sales and portfolio management. You act as a stand in PM and help in answering any technical questions that the sales guys can't answer. I focus on emerging market debt and have worked here around a year now (a lot of the people I work with are ex portfolio managers who got bored of their job) and want to instead pitch to clients and communicate the investment strategy instead of actually investing. It's a good place to start your career since you can move around the business and go to research, pm, general sales or just stay as an investment specialist since your a 'generalist'. I also studied the IMC (CFA) qualification pretty much a UK specific qualification specific to the asset management industry so not sure how that would help for IB.
I want to eventually go to investment banking ideally bulge bracket but I understand that I'd need an undergraduate degree to get in. I've found a way around this (potentially), I've been accepted onto a MSc (masters) program in finance and investment management, all be it not from a target university. The university is Russel group so top 25 in the UK (the University Of Liverpool) and the Masters is CFA accredited (aka covers most of the content in the CFA and actually sets you up for completing the CFA Level 1 exam during the masters program). I'm wondering if doing the MSc would mean that employers would look past the fact that I don't have an undergraduate degree. Also the masters is a distance learning masters (but that won't be specified on the degree certificate once I get it). I'd assume since a masters is a post graduate qualification it supersedes an undergraduate? Does anyone know how IB's in the UK view the university of Liverpool's master's program? I'm aware that it's not a target university but is it still respected enough to potentially get an off cycle internship (on top of the fact that I don't have an undergraduate degree) or would this be close to impossible for my situation? I have a lot of experience in the world of finance so I have a good grasp on accounting (from my time in audit) and I've worked in front office for the past year (and in total 3 years by the time I complete the masters) so is that combination of experience + the masters enough to get an off cycle internship or get onto a grad scheme in IB at any US or European BB?
The masters is a big investment for me and I'd only do it if there is at least some chance of me breaking into an M&A or Coverage team at one of the large banks. I'd really appreciate any thoughts on the above and any help is much appreciated, thanks everyone in advance!
Just checking on LinkedIn most people from the university of Liverpool end up in Back office (of course don't want to go for that as I'm already FO in AM). Again not sure if my experience and time in audit gives me an edge to other candidates who've probably done internships in IB already sure I have a lot more total experience than them but it's not directly relevant to IB. I also wouldn't mind going to a larger asset manager as the organization I currently work at is an institutional investor although it's pretty big in the UK and a solid brand name I'd like to go somewhere larger. If I were to instead focus my efforts on places like Blackrock, Pimco, Fidelity or some of the large banks asset management division would I have a better shot after completing the masters (again despite it being non target and me not having an undergraduate degree)
No. There are so many qualified candidates from so many targets. Just go to school.
Is it worth leaving my current role to do a bachelors at a target then internship>FT offer? Like I said want to go IB so I'd be willing to do this but I already make decent comp and don't really want to go to uni after being in the industry for a while. Also feel like going back to uni at this point would be a step back for me as During the year program they offered me a FT role in FO so not sure if it's really worth it for me? Ideally would like to do the Masters route if there's any chance it could work.
Also I could do the masters in global finance and banking from Kings college (which I think is semi target?) how would that place me instead, it's double the price of Liverpool but willing to pay for it if it ups my chances
Pursuing MSc from Liverpool University isn't great and in my opinion, will not improve your chances.
Out of curiosity, why do you want to do banking? Is it because of prestige or to do PE afterwards? In my opinion, the only option is to BSc but given your experience and background it seems to be a waste of time
IB has broader exits (PE specifically) which is what I eventually want to do. Also want to move out the UK at one point so need a qualification by an actual Uni (since immigration don't recognize the CFA for example). I also feel like I'd really enjoy the work in IB it's been my dream job but realized it a bit late or would've gone straight to uni.
Another option could be to do the distance bachelors degree with the university of London. Their finance BSc receives direction from LSE (it's essentially the sane course just done online) . My only thing about that is I'm not sure how Banks view degrees from there and the whole point of uni would be to get an internship and convert to a FT offer but I'd be working in my current role while doing the degree so wouldn't be able to apply to summer analyst positions. Then again may be a better choice? I have a lot of options I'm trying to weigh up so all your advice is appreciated!
You have a few options:
1. Join transaction services/CF division of another big 4/same big 4 if you have contacts there. Complete ACCA and after 1-2 years you probably have a decent chance at LMM/MM IB
2. LBS MBA - Never seen anyone actually do this but apparently you can get accepted to the MBA program without undergrad degree. Continue to crush it at your current role, target a 720+ GMAT and after 4-5 years total experience apply and you could have a shot at joining BB IB as Associate through MBA program. I would reach out/try to find someone on linkedin etc who went through this process to confirm no bachelors didn't impact their recruiting though.
3. I gather you are age 21-22? Probably the easiest option would be to do a Bachelors at a top UK uni with good IB placement. Your accounting background should give you a leg up for Transaction services/corp fin internships in your first year, and you would have a good shot at IB recruiting if you work hard. Honestly if you are still young probably best idea to do a bachelors. I would not do a random online Masters. Starting FT in IB you'd only be 25, still about average age for an Analyst class in UK.
So the only real way is to go and do a bachelors? I honestly don't want to leave my current role for uncertainty and spend 3 years not working if it's at all possible. What's your opinion on the university of London's distance degree program. It's a BSc in Finance and it's the same course that is taught at LSE (but the degree is awarded by the university of London). Could I get into an off cycle internship then?
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Sorry new to WSO thanks for letting me know
Regarding UOL, I looked into it recently and recall that most of the people who took these bachelor's degrees (yes even the instruction by LSE ones) ended up having to do a target masters (LBS, LSE, Ox etc.) afterwards to get into more competitive FO roles. I don't think I saw many if any exceptions to this. So basically we're back to square one here: do a target bachelors.
Is that better to just go to a target for 3 years? I could get into Kings, QMUL or Bayes at Undergrad for their finance course. That'd be my last option tbh cos I'm almost 21 and earning pretty good for my age with decent career progression if I stay where I am (looking at investment director by early 30's max) so what's ideal for me is to continue working and study a degree at the same time but none of the target unis offer part time undergrad courses only at the postgraduate level. I could get into Kings, or Bayes for their MSc program too (just establishing that an MSc is pretty much useless unless it's from a target uni like LSE etc?)
An option I have seen people with "similar" backgrounds do is that you can join a BB in a MO/FO support role and then lateral to IB once in.
I have seen this happen in a BB in the UK from AM/WM to IBD (they joined in a support role, shitty FO role with good comp compared to UK comp, and after 1.5-2y they managed to move to IBD), as at the bank they had so many programs that people without degrees but with relevant experience or veterans were common in this role. This move is not easy but 100% possible.
Wouldn't mind that but I'm already FO so feel like it would be taking a step back to go to BO and then transition into FO again. Also have heard it's extremely difficult to transition from BO to FO and without an undergrad already feel like I'm at a disadvantage if I were to try do that. How about transitioning to a larger asset management firm. I have directly relevant experience as an investment specialist and focus on liquid markets (particularly emerging market debt, high yield and investment grade strategies). Where I work now is an institutional investor (Aviva investors), You think with an MSc in finance and investment management + Directly relevant experience I could get into FO AM instead at one of the larger banks or Blackrock, PIMCO etc. My role is essentially to act as a proxy portfolio manager, answer technical queries and communicate our investment philosophy and strategy to clients. We also pitch and bring new clients in essentially acting as the 'technical' guys when pitching. I'm thinking if relevant experience + IMC & ESG Certificate + MSc Finance (non/semi target) is enough to break in to JPM/GS/UBS FO AM. From FO AM it would probably be easier to transfer internally to the IBD division? Depends if I could get into FO AM at one of the banks in the first place with that background and education? Would love to know anyone's thoughts on if that's possible (i.e. aiming to go to FO AM at one of the large banks using the MSc and my experience and then pivoting to IB)
I was just sharing a path I have seen in the past.
The role technically is FO and it is labelled as such, but your day-to-day replicates what MO does (it isn't BO). As you are working in a FO AM role, you are probably aware of these kind of support roles.
It is a bit of a step back, but once you get into a BB in a role not classified as ops and no one in IBD knows what you are doing, you can sell it as the recruiters sell it to you (as a FO role) and do the transition. Although it is definitely difficult to lateral, I have seen several people transition to better FO roles, such as IBD.
Just saying it is easier to move internally from FO support roles (BO is probably too far) to IBD once you are in the bank instead of leaving the industry for years, spend 50k and then applying from the outside, even though you have an advantage compared to other uni students.
I would say the option I shared would rank #3 in what was said before, above going to uni (you can get to IBD within 2 years without spending the money to go to uni).
PM me if you want the name of the roles
Hi I’d like to PM you however you posted as anon. I’m in a very similar position as you, sharing the same goals. Would be great to get in contact. Please can you PM me?
PM'd you
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