choosing between ubs la, jp morgan, goldman
i'm aiming for a summer internship. have an offer from ubs la, waiting for jpmorgan first round interview and goldman first round results. between these three, which would you pick? one drawback from jpmorgan and goldman is that you don't know for sure which group you'll get whereas in ubs la there's the generalist program which is great and you don't have to choose a group. what do you think?
When do you have to tell UBS by? In this market, I don't know if I would turn down any offer if you don't have another offer on the table, or if you don't have like 4 superdays lined up. Definately not if you are still waiting to hear if you have moved beyond the first round. But then again... do you really want to miss the opportunity to work for Goldman?
They did not say when but they say they prefer their candidates to respond quickly. And when I told the Ass Dir that I had to wait till thursday next week after my JP interview to decide he said he's a little disappointed...
To be honest, lots of people in college on this board don't know what they are talking about so my first piece of advise would be to talk to as many people at each of those firms, and other people in the business before making your decision. That being said, this is what I would do.
1) DONT TAKE JP MORGAN -- the only groups worth working there are M&A and SLF. Levfin not being all taht hot right now, especially considering it s not going to get much better by the summer and its a 10 wk program I dont think you ll get a great exp there. M&A at JP is also highly dependant on strong financing markets so I think it s not as strong a group as it is in boom times. Finally, the chances of getting M&A are really low and thats the only group that would be comparable to UBS LA imo and tehre are 10+ other groups at JP you really dont want to be at.
2) GS -- Might take 2-3 wks to go through the whole GS process, frankly, might be worth it, but I think you ll destroy good will sitting on an offer that long. So this wouldnt be my no.1 option in this scenario unless you are particularly a huge fan of GS culture and people. If you have time to pursue the process considering UBS LA offers have historically had lower time limits then you might consider it depending on how much risk you are willing to take. Also, at GS group selection doenst matter for exits outside of you likeing the industry you are in or not.
3) UBS LA -- Frankly, not the no.1 or no.2 group on the street anymore - but still, I'd say, a top 5 or 7 shop on the street and will get you a look at most top PE firms down the road. Still have a lot of great bankers and the culture still holds true, like a CS LA after they lost Ken Moelis, then Hooks and Lannigan. People know UBS come early on campus too so you ll have tonnes of FT options. I'd take this now or depending on your risk tolerance wait for GS. You can leverage the hell out of a UBS LA summer as the experience there I've heard is very very good vs. other summer programs --
end of the day -- this opinion changes if you prefer a group of people more than the others, frankly people matter more than you think.
Wharton04, thanks man. going back on things you said, what are the consequences of destroying good will as you said it?
also, what are the risks of waiting?
UBS LA did tell me that they prefer candidates to accept offer quickly, but someone advised me to consider all options before deciding. Will UBS LA understand or... ?
peace
I'd very much disagree that the only groups worth working for at JP are M&A and SLF. They're industrials group is one of the top on the Street and they have many other groups that are very well respected.
However, I do agree that UBS LA is not what it once was.
They always say they're "disappointed." They want to guilt-trip you into accepting the offer. They know you're interviewing with other banks.
haha, thanks devil's advocate.. i'm guessing it's all right to wait?
They aren't allowed to give you a deadline, but they will get pissed off if they feel like you are shopping their offer around.
This is certainly not worth risking for JPM (since this is a top group), and its up to you for GS. I would take the UBS LA offer hands down. If you really like GS, or NY, that much, you could apply after your internship and probably have a good shot as compared to other FT candidates.
so it does look bad if you were given an offer early but then you sit on it for a while?
If the others will take a few weeks to a monh, I would just take the UBS LA offer. Yes, it's not what it once was, but it's still great and most people would kill to get it.
Yes, Goldman might look better but you're only in the first round so far and it's highly competitive. In this market environment, it's not worth it to take risks by shopping around offers unless there's a really good reason for doing so (e.g. you really don't like it for some reason).
If you can speed them along, do that and try to find out quickly, otherwise just go with UBS LA.
From what I've heard (including someone who worked there), UBS LA is a sweatshop, and like people have mentioned, it's not as prestigious as it used to be.
If hearing back from JPM and GS will take a long time (read: 2+ weeks), I would call JPM and GS and see if they could speed up the process because you the guys at UBS are waiting for a response. If they don't meet your demands, go with UBS.
On the flip side, GS has a HUGE SA FT hire rate (I think I heard 90% at an info session), which only means very few non-SA will get FT offers (someone correct me if I'm wrong). But keep in mind that if you reject UBS now, you'll probably never get the chance to work for them again.
Take three lobsters and label one UBS, one JPM and one GS. Place them in a circle outlined in your own blood. Whichever lobster makes it out of the circle first is your firm. Eat the two losing lobsters because you're a banker now.
doesn't matter where you work, pay is all very similar, exit opps are very similar between BBs, its all about the people you work with, I work at GS, but there's nothing extra special about it over JPM, or any of the others....at the end of the day find a group you get along with and you'll have a great career
thanks so much guys!!!
Given the market go with UBS LA. It is still a top 10 group in the U.S. and your exit ops on the West Coast are fantastic. Goldman will string you out and their offer rate to summer analysts is low.
Totally agree with what Wharton04 said above.
The Prince of Wall Street
http://www.princeofwallstreet.com
well it's JPM NY and GS NY but i think I'm gonna go with UBSLA if goldman doesn't get back to me soon. what da ya think?
No offense man, but you just asked the same question you asked in your original post.
Grow a pair and make some personal decisions. The previous posters have done a fine job explaining the pros and cons, so take what you have and run with it. You don't need people on a board to approve everything for you.
UBS LA. Hands down. GS moves very slow.
alright thanks again guys
UBS LA is a great place for a summer internship.
The amount of time and energy needed to prep, travel, wait for a possible shot at JPM and GS- is just not worth it, imo.
Congrats on your offer and good luck on your decision.
Kick ass and get the FT offer. Then you have some real room to move about.
Please check your facts before posting. There have been several posts of yours with inacccurate info.
In this thread, you write that GS has two waves--not true. LB has two sessions summer analyst sessions.
GS has a choice of two start dates to accomodate different school endings.
On another thread, IIRC, you posted MS and GS class of 2008 has a base of 65k USD, not true-it is 60k, same as class of 2007.
Better not to post if you do not know, makes what you have to say not very credible.
.
Have you considered the difference between how JPM NY, GS NY, and UBS LA deploy their summer analysts? GS and UBS LA use analysts in a more generalist fashion than JPM. The most significant result of this system being that you are more likely to do more of your own models yourself, rather than farm them out to analysts in product groups.
As a summer analyst, the bulk of your modelling exposure at any bank will probably be analyses like accretion/dilution or LBO/merger pitchwork that can be formed off the back of a thoughtfully modified model template. If you work in an industry group at JPM, you may find that the relevant pages of your pitchbooks get farmed out to kids in M&A/LevFin/Sponsors while you get stuck writing profiles and updating valuation summaries all night long (those kids will also work all night long, with many hours spent doubting the results of their model or being harassed by an angry industry group associate). I'm not saying that this is definitely what will happen, I'm just saying that it's unambiguously more likely to happen at JP than at GS/UBS.
A staffer at my bank used to work at UBS LA during its heyday. Allegedly, the sweatshop reputation is true. This shouldn't come as a surprise, given that that office's culture is directly descended from Donalson Lufkin Jenrette (DLJ) of Monkey Business fame. They pile on a lot of work. However, as a summer analyst, working at a sweatshop can be a blessing in disguise -- you're more likely to get staffed on the variety of work necessary to make you a hot commodity at the end of the summer.
My advice is to call up UBS LA and ask if you can visit them. One of my best friends interviewed there and apparently they're a great bunch to go out with. Once you have that set up, see if GS/JP are willing to make any concessions. If not, test the waters at UBS LA and if you like it, take it.
it's great to have so many inputs, you guys have helped a lot
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