DB vs RBC vs UBS vs Barclays?
How are these firms doing relative to each other? If you work there can you please give some insight? (pls provide reasoning I'm trying to understand: not just ranking them)
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Barclays is pretty much better than all 3. Would say that UBS and DB are more or less in the same tier, with a slight edge to UBS, depending on the group (for instance, DB Lev Fin is considered a good group with solid PE exits). RBC is for sure below all 3.
What's your reasoning for this?
Barclays is a falling knife itself having lost a ton of MDs and generally stepping back from IB. Would take any american BBs even Citi or Bofa over Barclays.
With that said the other three firms here kinda suck so yes Barclays is still better, going by the league tables or otherwise.
1. Barclays
2. RBC
3. DB
4. UBS
Reasoning?
I personally would put say Barclays, DB, and UBS are all pretty comparable. On the ECM front, Barclays and DB definitely better. From a M&A front probably Barclays. LF definitely DB. Just based on league tables.
LOL at RBC as no.2
Why not?
Certainly won’t be DB given that they gave trump a free 500M loan back in the day and barely performed due diligence on his assets
They’re having a stellar year and both DB and UBS can’t help but trip over themselves.
You really think this is a list of tier 1 banks? Other than DB, you could make an argument for any of the three being top of the bunch. The non RBC banks have legacy brand names but are all shadows of themselves compared to 2007 whereas RBC never had a legacy brand but has just been fairly steady by comparison
Unless you are an energy banker, that 2-4 ranking makes absolutely no sense given broader league table rankings&exits from these banks. This ranking only makes sense for energy given UBS doesn't do energy banking and RBC/Barclays have strong groups there.
LOL congrats on RBC!
Would stay away from UBS if given the chance, will be another year or two until the teams a fully integrated culturally and the endless rounds of layoffs are over
How would you say their deal flow is right now?
Poor to the point they have to layoff juniors to even be profitable as a standalone business unit. Lots of groups basically do no revenue outside of refinancings
Yep, agree with this. UBS is terrible to lateral to. It's fine if you are starting FT in 2025/2026 given the integration is planned to be done by then, but it's terrible to join right now.
Never disagreed with every single person in the comments before. But ig there's a first for everything
1) Barclays : MDs have left on both coasts but it doesn't change the fact the firm still has great standing relationships with clients. They are still poised for fantastic deals
2) UBS : Would even put these guys at #1. They have bankers from Bofa and Barclays here + the CS acquisition. Huge upwards potential over the next few years.
3) RBC
4) DB
For #3 and #4 please just take a look at league tables before you come after me :)
UBS is over bloated to the point where they pay their top bucket Associate to VP promoted, 40% of base as bonus..
Agree with UBS being over bloated. CS forced marriage gives it potential for growth but also potential to trim in certain areas.
Barclays has lost lots of seniors and they’re scaling back IB side of things. Them zeroing 40% of analysts is just wild.
RBC is great but also suffering from post Covid boom adjustments.
DB not a BB and somehow always managing to be the shadiest shop
Can absolutely confirm this lol (happened to me).
UBS deal flow is picking up a bit and we actually have some pretty decent rebound in revenue this year already (would be impressive if JUST the existing UBS team..but you would expect revenue to almost double after acquiring CS.....)
Previous comments are very surprising – from the firms mentioned, would rank it as:
Lots of people cite ‘league tables’ in their rankings – headhunters and principals / partners in PE don’t care whether your group / firm was #5 or #7 in the tables, they’re just going off of historical reputation. Reputation is very sticky, and the folks in Power & Utilities and Natural Resources at BarCap are going to continue to exit very well – same thing with PU&I at RBC and Levfin & Sponsors at UBS.
Deutsche is still a solid bank, and a good PE exit is definitely possible for those in sponsors or levfin; probably similar caliber now as HL or Baird.
Regarding the UBS / CS merger, it’s gonna suck for the analysts and associates already there, but won’t matter for the undergrads currently accepting internships who would start in 2025 or 2026. When the integration is done, I can see UBS taking over from or tying with Barclays as the best non-American bank, which seems to be their plan – https://www.wsj.com/finance/banking/why-ubs-wants-to-be-the-no-6-investment-bank-in-the-u-s-yes-no-6-488118ec. The hires from BarCap (Marco Valla and co.), plus the new guys from CS / BofA / JPM all look like an upgrade from the moron incumbents that UBS has kept on payroll.
If you care a lot about exiting to MF / UMM PE, it honestly doesn’t even matter which bank you take from the given list. At that point, it’s probably in your interest to lateral to a top 3 BB or EB, which seems pretty doable.
The top groups at DB exit just as well as the top groups in RBC. DB REGL has UMM/MF exits just as RBC PU&I does. AFAIK, DB LevFin/Sponsors is also better than any RBC, and RBC's 2nd best group(M&A) is significantly worse than DB LevFin/Sponsors in terms of exits(some UMM exits from DB LevFin/Sponsors, but barely any from RBC). Both the top groups at RBC and DB are restricted in terms of exit opps by the nature of their groups, but it's not that big of a difference. Barclays also has multiple other groups that have kids exit into UMM/MF like tech, industrials, and HC. As you mentioned given the tier of banks, all of the groups you mentioned at these 4 banks require a lot of work to get said UMM/MF exits but it's 100% possible as evident by historic placement.
What's your position in the industry to have this opinion?
Top groups at DB exit much better than top groups at RBC. This post is misinformation. I know because I have friends at both banks and it's not a controversial debate...
Any thoughts on DB industrials?
i chose the britain over canada
I think Barclays and UBS are both materially better than RBC/DB with Barclays being the number 1 and UBS being the number 2 here. I personally worked at RBC before, so understand why everyone is so out at force to defend it, but I think you have to be realistic about where RBC stands.
I think despite losing all the MDs, Barclays still edges UBS as even for 2023 they barely finished below UBS in global M&A rankings a lot of their MDs, given where league tables are this year the 2023 UBS>Barclays global leagues tables seem like an outlier. However, UBS was still top 10 in global M&A while RBC and DB weren't.
Additionally, RBC remains not viewed as a BB by headhunters, and the only rationale for them being in the same tier as DB is DB's complete lack of deal flow and barely being top 15 in league tables the past few years. UBS still beats RBC due to its league table standings, increased MD hirings from CS/Barclays, and the reputation boost they get from acquiring CS. I think RBC/UBS was a debate pre-CS acquisition, but clearly isn't at this point.
RBC analysts do others a huge disservice by spreading misinformation. RBC is a great bank but its growth, exits, and overall "prestige" is way overhyped.
Despite the decline of the European banks listed, it's still clearly:
1) Barclays
2) UBS
3) DB
4) RBC
In Europe Barc, DB, and UBS are considered at the same level. RBC way behind
Europe as in continental Europe? I ask because in London Barclays is pretty unambiguously better than the others.
This is always a very strange position that people seem to take - whether the performance is for UK or Continental Europe.
Most teams sitting in London are covering the EMEA region - differentiating between UK and European performance is pointless. In terms of prestige, quality, and exits in London, all 3 of UBS, Barclays and DB are the same tier overall, however, a more precise ranking is highly group dependent. There are individual groups at each bank which are significantly stronger than the other two, and will get MF / UMM interviews in line with GS/MS/JPM - know this from first hand experience in the industry.
RBC is trash. Their analysts come on every forum hyping up their bank. Really a sad sight to see
RBC isn't trash but it's a clear step below Barclays, CS, and DB in terms of exits. This part is undeniable. RBC exits at the same level as middle market banks Harris Williams, William Blair, and Baird
Id argue RBC exits are below top MM banks since RBC M&A deal flow is concentrated within a select few groups. RBC is excellent for career bankers, though, layoffs are less common at RBC given the strong balance sheet and their focus on debt/lev fin, which keeps a healthy revenue stream for seniors.
Bro said a bank that's still functioning is a step below one that isn't
Definitely Jefferies as the first choice
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