If the sheer volume of recent threads addressing burnout and attrition for analysts/associates didn't clue you in, banking culture is in a very rough place right now. I would strongly advise all of you to deeply contemplate why it is that you want to pursue this industry. Typical reasons why kids are drawn to finance include money, prestige, and exit ops. These are all legitimate incentives to pursue a career in my opinion, but right now I would argue the costs at which you will achieve those goals have changed.
You truly can't know what it is like until you actually experience it
Everyone knows banking is hard and how draining it can be - you have seen it hundreds of times before on here. Reading the experiences of anonymous users on an internet forum can be easy to dissociate from because you have no basis of comparison or actual relationship with these people. However, I can assure you their testimonies are real. I speak from experience, and I'd wager many other juniors feel the same way, when I say that you truly can't know what it is like until you actually experience it. I was also gung-ho about banking when I was in college. I didn't care to listen to people when they talked about the importance of group culture and WLB. I figured I would just suck it up and it would all be worth it.
Well having now endured it for a few years, I can tell you it has not personally been worth it for me. The continuous mental health strain and erosion from this industry's broken practices have taken a significant toll on me, and have altered the way I will approach future career decisions. There is blatant disregard for the well-being of analysts, associates, and even VP's at times, largely due to the mass supply of kids looking to break into banking. High turnover rates and the mantra of "earning your stripes" aren't helping things either. The comradery and bonds that helped many juniors get through long weeks have been destroyed by WFH.
Those who stayed in finance and achieved progression in the banking or PE space STILL have no free time and are under constant stress and pressure.
I have friends making 50% less than me who are infinitely happier, work 40 hours a week, and can actually use their vacation time. They still have the opportunity to climb the corporate ladder and live a comfortable life, without sacrificing what I consider to be a lot, just for money and prestige. Bankers often times rationalize the sacrifices made in their 20's with the notion that things will magically get better later on in life. From my experience working with my superiors, those who stayed in finance and achieved progression in the banking or PE space STILL have no free time and are under constant stress and pressure.
Insecure AF
The point of me saying all this is not to gatekeep or to try and dissuade anyone from doing something they are truly passionate about. I think many young guys want to pursue banking for the wrong reasons. I'll tell you a big secret, and I think far too many people don't talk about this enough. A ton of junior bankers, and front office finance analysts for that matter, are insecure af. It seems as though many kids choose this career path to fulfill a need to prove to their peers, family, or whomever that they are smarter, harder working, or have the ability to earn more money than anyone else. I was one of those kids - I wanted to use banking a means to escape my economic situation. Contrary to what you see in movies and all over social media, finance guys are not always the imposing alpha male types. There plenty of people who clearly have some serious, deep-rooted personal issues and are out looking for validation.
There are plenty of ways to make money and become successful
Looking back now with a bit more perspective than when I came in, I can ascertain that there are plenty of ways to make money and become successful, and banking is only one of them. I didn't intend for this to be a sob story or a rant, rather a statement that could possibly offer a view from someone who has been through the process and found it was not what I thought it was going to be.
I'm here to tell you that there is a whole other side to it
Undergrads right now still have the opportunity to try and consider new paths, and I would highly recommend at least exploring alternatives if you are solely focused on banking. High schoolers - (lol) why tf are you even interested in banking? Seriously ask yourself that. If your answer is to make money, yes, banking will do that for you, but there are so many ways to achieve that, including other avenues of finance. IB has been hyped up so much recently with youtubers, tik tokers, and ig finmeme pages alike shoving the prestige, salary figures, and all the shiny aspects down your throat. I'm here to tell you that there is a whole other side to it and I hope you at least take into consideration much of the valuable information on this site.
Anyway, just my thoughts. Would love to have some other more experienced members jump in here.
I know most of the stuff in the past few days has been posted in the IB forum as it's the most popular but curious to hear if people are feeling the same sentiment about other career fields such as S&T, PE, AM, CO? Are the hours just as bad, the same, better?
Sounds dumb but would anyone be able to rank the increase in workload for each of these aforementioned fields?
I'll offer a perspective on S&T. I think the transition to WFH, for my desk at least, has been great. I can imagine starting as a first year would be pretty difficult without direct access to people for questions, and given the steep learning curve for many products. However, having already learned the product, I think the culture has improved dramatically. S&T work in general seems to be much more structured than banking with regimented daily deliverables for most analysts. I can easily separate work time and home time as market hours sort of help reinforce this. No more walk to work, no more paying $15 for lunch, no more sitting around doing nothing when there is downtime. I can work out freely during the mid-day lull, and also now have time to cook dinner and lunch. I truly feel for the guys in banking rn. Seems like they are getting absolutely worked.
A perspective from MBB with close friends in banking & consulting across a whole litany of "tiers": Honestly, OP's post is so achingly true. Many of us who joined these firms did so with praises rained down on us for how "talented" and "amazing" and "smart" we were. In hindsight, I find the biggest irony is that we were all smart enough to grasp the complexities of the interviews, the contextual knowledge, and the networking nuances, yet we completely failed to internalize the very real warnings we received from our peers and general internet resources on just how bad things can be in these fields despite the universal abundance of these warnings.
One thing you guys should consider: who is the bigger fool? The one who eschews suffering for potential long term satisfaction, or the one who deliberately suffers because there is a "promise" of a better future in years to come? I used to think it was the first one, but now I realize just because it's harder to be in the second position doesn't make it a better problem to have. We are all fools in one way or another.
High schoolers can't even make their own dr.'s appointments, what makes you think they can pick a career?
why bother when my mother can do it for me, besides ive got no other aspirations in life so i may as well sell my soul
I'm cringing so hard owowow
Ok please stop with the monkey shit now, I’ve had enough. I really was joking, I promise.
For reference, he was theorizing that other undergrads/high schoolers are posing as analysts and making these type of posts with the goal of trying to dissuade other prospects from pursuing banking to reduce competition
For reference, he said the n word then deleted it
It was tough before covid, but from my analyst class whose still there after I left my group it has without a doubt gotten worse.
I would take this with a grain of salt. Just like joining the army / navy etc, there's something about going through this "getting fucked in the ass" experience that really hardens you and is invaluable in how you approach your career afterwards.
I've left IB, started 2 businesses and have molded my outlook on work from my IB days into the new industries I'm in (telecoms + HNW advisory). It is a huge advantage to see a client email at 1 AM when they're in the UK and you're on the west coast and be OK with popping the laptop up and responding whereas your competitor is simply sleeping.
^ Musk did say that no one ever changed the world working 40 hours a week. I'm not trying to change the world lmao, but if it means building a successful enterprise, the 2 years in IB i got fked are more than worth it looking back
We are at the point where kids here are comparing banking to being in the military... Jesus Christ
I’m in the military as many of my superiors used to be. The sentiment this person is trying to draw is accurate. Know your place instead of trying to act high and mighty. The camaraderie and rank structure is actually similar, and I’ve been deployed and seen combat, not just a weekend warrior.
Honestly it’s not even that deep. It’s a pretty good job and im getting good pay. All I could ask for
As a college freshman, this post honestly really makes me think. Growing up in a low-income household (my parents made it seem middle class, but w/e), I always wanted to go into a profession that would allow me to provide my family with everything they needed. I thought that if I ended up in a 9-5 with middling pay, I would likely pick up a side job (hourly or independent) to supplement it. As I've been learning about IB, I rationalized that the cost of time spent working was offset by the pay. I mean, if I went through hell at work, all that I would have to do is sit back and think to myself: wow, I made $1,000 today.
However, seeing all of these posts, I've become pretty scared of committing to IB. While I'm no IFBB pro, I want to maintain a bodybuilder-esque physique which means time to sleep, train and eat correctly. I can't imagine going into IB without my body vastly deteriorating or literally only going to the gym and work. I also love animals, and a post I saw earlier today about people in IB (without a 9-5ish spouse) not being able to have a dog is definitely upsetting. I'm also a loving person who wants to have kids (not some kind of bluepill simp tho) and while I'm certainly not unhappy with the hookups that I've had, I struggle to rationalize my ability to pull a worthwhile woman while I spend 90% of my life asleep, at the gym or at work.
There's no real point to my comment here other than I greatly appreciate the advice from older users. It's easy to say that in a bubble, I wouldn't mind the hours, but thinking about all of the other sacrifices involved definitely makes it a lot worse.
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Facts. I mean, if I were rich I would do an easy job without caring about pay, but I grew up poor asf and my dad worked long ass hours for shit pay. I guess the standards/expectations of a job are different for each person. Im tryna help my parents and also have enough to have a family here in america in a good area. Maybe im in the minority here, but my experience hasnt even been that bad, and I couldnt really see myself going into another industry except maybe consulting
Can't agree with this post enough. Many years ago, IB was the place to be because it was one of the only career paths which offered such high salaries with strong exits. However, this is definitely no longer the case. Consulting, tech, product management, quant etc etc are all viable and better options.
Also, I went to a tough school but I still always had time to work out, chill, participate in greek life etc. I feel like 90 percent of my life now is getting up from bed going to my desk working till 2 AM and then trying to fall asleep right away. You gain weight, your mental health gets severely affected and worst of all, you're doing menial work most of the time e.g. adding columns, aligning logos.
I went to a target and really regret not being open to other career options. Please don't disregard OPs post and experience. Trust me, as a freshman / sophomore I too was absolute gung ho for IB
OP - you mention there are many other ways to make IB-type money with a similar time period as an IB career....without going into IB. So, the high probabilty potential to make 400k-500k per year by the time you are 26-28 years old
would you kindly list them out here, and give specific examples?
The probability of most college/highschool kids making MD, Director, or even VP in IB is incredibly low. Statistics can already tell you that SA positions are extremely selective - like 3-8% for all applicants depending on the shop. Then you have to get a FT role. Admittedly conversion rates are high for SA, but after that it really tapers off. Far less analysts will become associates, and even fewer will become VP's, and so on. Granted, many of them will go to PE or other investing roles and have great careers, but some will burn out, and others will go to corpfin or other general finance roles. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, all I am trying to say is the likelihood of these undergrads/high schoolers actually obtaining a seat where they can make the money you are describing is very low.
To answer your question though, I may have some suggestions: