Destined for middle bucket?

Just a prospect so take my advice with a grain of salt, but someone who had been "perfect" their whole life and is afraid of feedback because they might hear something they won't like is in for a rude awakening. You seem to have the work ethic and intelligence but being able to ask your peers for feedback and develop better habits will make you 100x better. There's a lot to learn from others and it will only make you better. 

I want to speak to you as a person not a banker: you have a nasty habit. You should not be asking the question “what is the exact thing I need to do to be better than those around me” you should instead ask yourself how you can improve your own habits and work. What mistakes have you made? Have you made the same mistake twice? When you made mistakes, how did you handle them? Asking for feedback is like ripping off a Band-Aid, it can sting at first, but it's just something you need to do. 

If you’re at a top EB, your success in life is not going to be drastically altered if you were not the absolute godtier logo aligner. Again, if you continue thinking in terms of trying to outperform the people to your right and left, it’ll destroy you in this industry. If you follow the coveted path to a large cap PE fund, you will not survive there with this mentality. Always strive to improve upon the work you give and the attitude you bring.

Gotta ask for feedback. It can suck to hear some things but it’ll hopefully be specific to what you can change, which is infinitely more helpful than anything we’ve got for you.

It’s all well and good to get some positive feedback, but it won’t help you improve so specifically ask for the constructive feedback.

Some people are really bad at giving feedback and you’ll have to make it even more painful for yourself by walking them through it. Did I take too long on this? Were my pages completely fucked up? Did I communicate enough with you, what’s a better cadence? I did XYZ on this part of the model, how would you approach it?

A side benefit to asking for feedback is it shows you give a fuck about improving. Different story if you get feedback and don’t take it on board though.

Don't throw yourself into your job. Remember, your employer would not do the same for you. And personally, my goal is to do as little work as possible while still achieving middle bucket. It is the sweet spot. Is working 10-20 extra hours a week worth it for an extra 10-20%? With the compensation in banking, it doesn't make a material difference to your life IMO.   

Analyst 1 in IB - Ind

I was a hyper eager finance student, did everything, worked my ass off got mid tier BB SA traded it up for top EB but the other analysts are doing better than me. What should I do? I've never taken addy but considering it and I made myself available 24/7. I made my blackberry app wake me up every time I get an email (even those bs 4am market update ones). How do I get better? I'm afraid to ask for feedback and hear something I won't like.

Young banker with a Blackberry? Never seen it.

I have no idea how cutthroat is your environment but it feels like you are exaggerating or overdoing it a bit. There's only so far you can push yourself physically without significant trade-offs and you my friend are on the edge. Some people are just naturally better, or sharper or more liked. Try to find your sweet spot, and don't rely on 100% availability as a defining factor.

There was this other post regarding this new IB series Industry. I watched the first 2 episodes and your post reminded me of the Harri character that collapses in the second episode for some reasons (among others, sleeping in the office with regular alarms and 30 min naps). 

And ask for feedback! This move alone makes you seem proactive at least which is a good thing. I like to operate under the agreement that "if you have sth to tell me, tell me now. Let's not wait for a feedback session 2 months later." That's another way to go. 

It's sad to see you drain yourself in such unhealthy and inefficient ways..

Something people don't talk about enough on this website is that at some EB's there is no such thing as being a real top bucket analyst. Every bank prioritizes different attributes, some care a lot about being a team player, others care about how "hard" you work, others do a "holistic" review (which signals that it's like "holistic / 360" college application processes where there are factors you simply can't control impacting your rank). I have a friend at a top EB that everyone at this website regularly ranks as a top firm / group where buckets are basically determined when you are a summer intern, people who have prior banking experiences are viewed as the best of the best, and people who come from hardcore finance schools where they are taught to use excel and PPT properly have an advantage. The firm has a "holistic" review process basically meaning since the deal flow is inconsistent (a lot of whale hunting and a bunch of random stuff) so analysts who have closed a few deals are ranked lower than those who only work on non-complicated pitches / capital raises for a year. The expectations for the pitch analyst and the deal analyst are different since they are asked to do different things and it's easier to beat expectations as a pitch analyst. So much of this is totally out of your control. The places that have nailed this down are really the top BB banks where they've been doing it for so long and there are such strict standards about training and bringing non-finance analysts up to speed that the ranks there really matter because they are saying something.

There are very few analysts in banking who are totally honest about the experience, everyone is lying about how many hours they worked, or reading way too into some minor comment their MD said to them about how top bucket they are. There are MDs who will joke about how good I am but it doesn't really impact my bucket at all. There are VPs who think analysts nowadays are weak because they regularly worked to 5am... complete bullshit. This is just part of the industry, can't be changed.

You need to change your attitude about the job, you are a high achieving person. What do you want out of your experience? Most EB's have an A2A attrition issue regardless of what they tell you, so as long as you are decent you'll probably get the promotion, this isn't like GS / MS where it's highly competitive. If you want to leave, you don't need to be a top analyst, just be good enough that people generally think positively of you and then make sure you have a bench of reviewers who will say great things about you when the time comes. Furthermore, being a top analyst means you are good at crunching the numbers and getting shit done with minimal mistakes, but the majority of analysts don't really take a view on what's going on and have a voice. Depending on your teams, and it's more likely to be OK at a boutique, maybe step up and voice your opinion when it's appropriate. There are other ways to show that you are a top performer / person. The analyst skills are important, but people always overweight the "tangible" skills due to recency bias and lack of wholesome experience. This may not impact your rank, but will definitely impact people's perception of you.

You have a blackberry?

Watch the first episode of Industry on HBO. You sound like you are turning into Harry, finish the episode to see how that plays out.

Coming from a former analyst - the Blackberry trick is not helping your ranking at all. If you're asleep at 4am and wake up to respond to something no one will be impressed, people send stuff overnight expecting you to get to it in the morning. If they really need you they'll call you so just set your ringer really loud. Be responsive to emails when you're awake, check in with your associate if you're not sure whether you're okay to log off, but that is a really dumb idea with no value add. You need to learn some work/life balance or in 12 months you will be so fried you won't even care. It sounds like you overall need to take a deep breath, address your anxiety issues, and let yourself get up the curve as a first year. There's no reason not to ask for feedback.

The exits depend far more on school, resume, and preparation than being top or mid bucket. Recruiting happens too fast for PE shops to get a real idea of who is best.

Easier said than done but do not let your job define you. These places don’t care about any of us and would be glad to axe us in a down cycle. There are waaaaaaay more important aspects of life. As long as you do good work and that direct deposit hits, who cares? The times I’ve felt most at peace in jobs is when I just didn’t really care. If you care this much about buckets your career is going to be painful.

If you have no other reason to take Adderall, such as actual underlying conditions that warrant it, do not go down that road. It will show up in random drug tests, it's highly addictive, and is sure a recipe for disaster long term. If you decide to go that route, I would make sure your family does not have a history of cardiac problems and speak with a doctor / psychiatrist if you feel there are ACTUAL problems relating to ADHD that were undiagnosed at a younger age. 

Taking addy is not a long-term solution my guy. You've gotten this far without the need for it. Focus on developing healthy habits and ask for ways you can improve internally. 

Who tf cares if you're top bucket? Ain't worth the extra money over grinding the extra time and it won't get you better exits. Knowing your shit and having charisma get you good exits. Sit back and enjoy the ride my friend. Stop stressing so much.

Work smarter not harder... 

Better than a chum bucket ...

The most successful people in the world do not compare themselves to the world around them, they strive to be the best in their own right. Comparing yourselves to others creates limitations and an artificial benchmark, perfect the areas where you excel and improve the areas where you are under performing, and never be afraid of feedback. 

You know what’s funny? I actually think caring this much is actually counterproductive to what you’re trying to accomplish.

To use this crude analogy, think about two books: -one where the message is clear, succinct, to the point and real -another that is outright academic, hits every major nuance and detail you can think of, and has all the English language that’s been printed on the dictionary

Now ask yourself: what book would you read if you wanted to get an answer to something that was unequivocal and confident?

That right there answers your question about how to manage your career. We all are victim to our own type A personas, but by trying to overcompensate you actually become annoying and disorganised

Setting limits early makes people respect you and know that you are a person just like them. It provides a window for people to see what your values are apart from money and all the bullshit that comes with this job. Deals are done based on personal relationships, they are done because people like you. Nobody is gonna like you if you’re always trying to outcompete them or if you are manically obsessed with your job to the point where you become dull.

This is coming from someone who has all the dreams and aspirations here, as do many on this forum

Have enough confidence in yourself that your sole value add to the team isn’t being up at 4am to turn comments because the truth is that any hungry bastard would do that. The real meat comes from developing the experience and the acumen that is necessary to provide clarity and real insight, and that comes from positioning yourself to work on what matters and with the people you know are worth the investment of your time.

I've gotten some advice on this subject that I found really helpful although it may seem obvious: your mindset going into work everyday should be "what can I do to make my MD/VP's life easier." Junior employees are really just cogs in the wheel and if you approach this with the mindset of making the process go smoother for your managers who are actually making business decisions then you will see your feedback improving...and definitely don't be afraid to ask for feedback at any stage

Are your peers taking the time to ask for advice on WSO? No. Use this time to format more decks and ensure your logos are properly aligned. 

jk, just chill. do a good job and meet expectations, but you are pissing your life away caring this much about being top tier within the firm. You would prob be a more productive analyst by getting more sleep vs being woken up in the middle of the night responding to pointless emails. As others have said, work smarter not harder. 

Not everyone is destined to be top bucket. Do your best, but if you don't get there, don't take it as a failure. You are still in the top echelon of finance. Don't kill yourself over a self-imposed expectation; it may feel good to be able to say you were one of the best analysts now, but in the future, nobody is going to care. It'll be like clinging on to being high school valedictorian, when no one in college gives a shit.