Curious to hear if you’re interested in residing in or near NYC + suburban towns long term, or hope to move elsewhere after a certain point.
If so, why? And how much money do you think you would need to do so?
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I’m on the older side in this forum (late 30’s) and made the decision to stay here when I was probably late 20’s/early 30’s although I have many friends who decided to leave for all sorts of reasons (and to places like FL, CA, NC, IL, etc).
For me, I like to live in a city and have all the conveniences and experiences it brings, and then I like to travel to more laid back places (although also enjoy traveling to cities). Of all the cities I’ve lived in, NYC has the most to offer and brings the most energy. Although I would consider living in many cities abroad (London, Paris, Tokyo, Amsterdam, etc) and a few other US cities (Boston, SF, Chicago).
So it’s mostly around all it has to offer, a few genres of things:
1) food: any food you want at all sorts of price ranges
2) art/shows/etc: you have broadway, amazing museums, etc
3) density and ease of public transit: you can travel all of Manhattan by subway and the city is so dense. I have 4 restaurants I truly enjoy on my block alone and dozens with a couple block radius.
4) travel: 3 airports to pick from, so many international flights, and easy access to the NE
5) career growth and opportunities
6) social life: so many different types of people and relatively easy to find new groups or things to do
There are many more (just general experiences I could list off) but that’s the gist of it.
The big thing is cost. My wife and I are lucky enough that we make good money, so we can enjoy the city and still plan for retirement (and travel), etc. That to me is one of the biggest things to consider, most of my friends who moved away either did so for family or cost.
Interesting, I enjoy NYC for the same reasons you do, but do worry about costs as time goes on. What do your general costs look like on a monthly / yearly basis?
Right now I live in a 3 bed shared with 3 roommates and only pay $1.8k per month on rent, which is my largest expense. Surely as time goes on, I could see costs going up especially after having a family / kids. Then I'd either have to purchase a place and pay a lot both on purchase + maintaining it + mortgage interest, or rent somewhere very expensive. On top of that, I could see education and childcare being expensive as well, and these are just starting items I'm sure there could be other factors to consider.
I won’t be the best benchmark because we make very good money. I can give some info but it’ll vary significantly depending on your lifestyle. A simple example is public vs private school or nanny vs daycare. The thing you have to remember is nyc has people of all incomes and so there are options for people who make less.
My friends who live in NYC all make at least $500k combined, but these are all finance people so you’d expect decent comp.
Some breakdown of the types of cost you can expect if you have a family:
$75k/year nanny
$50k/private school
Then housing is a big question. If you go to the suburbs you can get by with $1-1.5mm, in nyc my friends in Brooklyn are around a similar price point but much smaller (2 bedroom apt with 1-2 young children around $1.5mm) and our condo was $4.5mm (but is a big condo in a nice area).
Everything else is small stuff (except for vacations, especially if you pay for in laws or nanny). But other costs don’t really scale all that much.
So like I said, for a “comfortable” but not amazing (by finance standards) you want at least $500k. It sounds ridiculous but again that’s to have a comfortable life.
Do you know anyone who lives in the suburbs? Which ones are generally regarded as the nicest balance between close enough to NYC to have fun, but far enough away so that you can have a somewhat larger property, more privacy, etc.? Does taking the train or driving into NYC get old quickly?
Yes I have friends in the suburbs (westchester, Rye, Greenwich, etc). The thing about the suburbs is that it’s not always about distance from the city (in terms of affordability). As an example, Stamford is more affordable than Darien (by a fair bit) and is a bit closer to the city (not much, like 10 mins).
Honestly, anything within 45-90 mins is going to feel about the same in terms of being able to go into the city for fun. You still have to take a train and most likely want to get a hotel if you are staying out late. Most of my friends settled in the CT area (Greenwich, Darien, Westport are some of the popular ones). Keep in mind that housing prices in the suburbs skyrocketed during the pandemic, so these areas aren’t really affordable.
Have seen plenty of folk move to suburbs in NY, CT and NJ.
If you’re in nyc, could see yearly expenses running from 150k to over 200k+ each year
Yes, I'd prefer to live in a suburban town nearby NYC long term. Reasons why:
1. Space and Environment: more space, bigger yards and quieter environment compared to NYC. More suitable for families
2. Cost of Living: Generally cheaper, with housing being more affordable on a sq/ft basis
3. Safety: Lower crime rates compared to NYC
4. Education: Nearby suburbs have good school districts, both public and private
5. Access to NYC: Relatively easy access to NYC by car or train, usually within 30 minutes to 1.5 hours
6. Greener Surroundings: More peaceful environment, closer to nature and away from the hustle and bustle of the city life
I wouldn’t mind moving to southern florida if there are opportunities to make money there. Warmer weather most of the year and lower expenses.
I might be a bit biased however as I grew up in central florida.
I would prefer to switch to the LA office for my group and reside there long term. Their office clearly works fewer hours than we do, and get paid about the same.
It is also sunny all year over there. Wonder if this is a grass is greener effect
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Did 5 years in NYC and have been in LA 7. I'm from the a flyover state and had no connection to LA when I moved here. Its a one way ticket, very few people go back. Your money goes farther on a per sq foot basis here vs NYC and if you play it correctly you can avoid commuting.
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Suburbs here and in the office in midtown 5days/wk when not traveling. It’s clean, safe, public schools are top notch, easy to visit family in the area since we have two cars and a driveway/garage, plenty of space for our dog, daycare is only like $2k/mo vs the nanny cost quoted above, etc.
No, it’s visibly deteriorating
Im from NY and moved to Texas in my early 30s. Been here almost a decade. I really wanted to opt out of the whole scene, and placed much less value on cultural amenities than I did space, less value on cosmopolitan colleagues than laid back friends, etc. to each his own
Life just flies by extremely fast in NYC
If I didn't have to work all day and had a trust fund, I'd live in NYC. But I don't, so I need space and a little more laidback place to rest that keeps my mind sane
Kind of hilarious whenever I read this sub on people staying in NYC having been born and raised in the WV and how overinflated the amount of money you need to live in NYC is. Having grown up here, do not intend to live anywhere else. Living in the suburbs 30-1hr away in Westchester, LI, or whatever random town in NJ is absolutely not the same access and should never be portrayed as such.
I guess if you just moved to NYC within last like 5-10 years how it looks now may seem normal but used to be a nicer place IMO. NYC facing very serious issues that are existential. If you don’t see that you are kidding yourselves.
Here is an ancedote for the future: NYPD FY23 budget is ~$10bn, down ~$90mm from last year in the face of rising crime. Don’t throw cherry picked statistics at me either, just look at the streets and subways. On the other hand, NYC is projecting migrant costs to be ~$12bn over next few years. Don’t think this can just go on forever without the dam breaking. Somewhat reminiscent of the 70s but NYC has become so ultra liberal that it won’t be able to self correct in the same way it did through the 90s. My opinion is that NYC is pretty phucked, have lived here for over 30 years & was born here.
Once many of the migrants become legitimately homeless it will look third world. Our elected officials invited them here and are paying the price. “Right to shelter” is one of the aspects that will destroy NYC. NYC will continue to move left until it is destroyed. The mayor actually used the phrase “(The migrant crisis) will destroy NYC.”
I don't think NYC is that liberal. Yes if you cherry pick the WV and Brooklyn trust fund babies maybe but much of the city still has a very blue collar, pro-police vibe (which is why Adams was elected in the first place).
That being said, NYC definitely peaked in 2006. Bloomberg was mayor, crime was next to nothing, and Salaries/COL were so much higher back then. It peaked again in 2013 (albeit with lower salaries) but has been on a slow decline ever since.
Agreed on 2006, great call actually
My point re liberal is that NYC will likely never elect a Giuliani / Bloomberg type again so it has become a liberal social experiment with no checks and balances.
I've seen this said on the forum before. If you don't think that NYC is that liberal, go to literally any other city/town in the country that isn't named Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, or Washington DC. I've lived in other areas of NY state, Virginia, Texas, and cities further west. NYC is ultra-liberal compared to any town or major city that I've lived in.
Interesting. I’ve spent considerable time in two west coast cities to have thought if eventually ending up in NYC, at least there would be less sameness in thought.
NYC needs mayor Bloomberg for another 2 terms. The city improved a lot and was stronger when he was leading it
This is why NYC is screwed. That playbook doesn’t work. The populace isn’t electing people using the Bloomberg type of playbook.
I’d go so far as to say NYC needs a Giuliani type for the foreseeable future. Thing is, that will never happen. The fact that he was once elected here shows the change, someone that conservative will NEVER be elected here again.
NYC politicians now are using a playbook centered around strange social issues and general populist woke stuff (I’m sure they don’t care about most of what they parrot). People have forgotten that we elect city officials to make sure the garbage is cleaned up, reduce crime, reduce homelessness etc. NYC electorate is looking for activists basically.
Adams is probably the “furthest right” NYC will see. He even bowed to people who thought sanctuary cities were a good idea, he was “welcoming migrants” etc and it totally backfired. Even now as he and the rest of them complain they’re not even asking for them to be deported, they just want more money to spend. This is a case study in not just doing your job.
I don’t think many NYC pols in general understand they just need to make sure the streets are clean, create a safe city, etc it’s all about ancillary stuff.
Guess it’s a question that’s a bit difficult to answer as a junior. If you can land a coveted senior role at a bank, pe firm, hf or some other high paying role, then any choice would make sense.
NYC and it’s surrounding suburbs are probably some of the nicest areas you’ll see on the east coast.
Aside from some nice coastal towns in CA and FL, there’s probably not many better places to be in the US (and if so, would be glad to learn where they are).
It’s likely the dream / goal for many people both in ny and from other geographies to live around here. Affordability is the most difficult aspect of the discussion though, as it’s costly to live in the nicer areas of the country.
what’s makes the NYC’s surrounding suburbs “nice” to you? i find the housing to be very run down, suburbs/schools lack any kind of diversity and you can’t buy a home that’s worthwhile or remotely charming unless it’s $1.5-2mm+. and even if you can - it comes with a long 90min-2hr door to door commute to the office in nyc. hard for me to see the appeal here long term if your household can’t reach a $500k income. can’t really have it all there
It’s interesting when people refer to nyc, I think most likely aren’t thinking of the boroughs outside of Manhattan which can be very different. I think Manhattan is a nice place to live for people in their early 20s to mid 30s. There are few other cities I’d want to live in that can provide a similar culture and experience.
And sure there are areas that have way too many tourists and vagrants like time square but there are tons of nice neighborhoods and fun areas as well. It’s expensive here but I live with roommates in east village and live fairly frugally. May splurge a little more if I can earn higher income over time
Want to stay in the Northeast but the suburbs. Love the NYC suburbs but they're all so expensive. Have seriously given New England a look as a long term place to live once I settle down and have a family.
I'm currently applying to a company that has their main office is near a lot of small and beautiful NE towns (MCOL / LCOL).
I am convinced that the NYC suburbs are some of the nicest towns in the country aside from coastal/beach towns in sunshine states.
I am originally from a town in a flyover state and would prefer nyc or some town nearby any day
Agreed, had a partner in our group host a party at his place in a nice suburb of Long Island last year. On be way there, driving around the area in general inspired me to become successful enough to one day live like him and the guys in his neighborhood.
I grew up in GA. Went to college on the east coast and currently working in NYC. I think this city and the areas around it are great in their own ways and could go on about what I’m impressed with for each place.
I still think I’d like to be on west coast eventually though. Not necessarily LA but somewhere around Orange County. Anywhere is better than GA though
I'm a NYC native and moved out to LA (LA County, not City) about 2 years ago after spending 25 years in NYC. I just want to offer some perspective as someone who is over NY. My parents live in NYC and in-laws live in LA. This part is relevant since being close to family for raising kids is non-negotiable for my wife and me. I'm not in finance btw, and only have a passing interest in it.
I prefer LA for a number of reasons.
Overall, I think the ideal NYC lifestyle is borderline unattainable, and something close to resembling one requires a ton of money and a lot of compromise. I think a lot of NYers, especially transplants, suffer from Stockholm Syndrome and rationalize a shitty lifestyle as a badge of honor or ruggedness. Sometimes I miss NYC, but when I think about why, I realize that it's not a longing for NY itself, but mere nostalgia for a simpler time of going to house parties and hanging out with my friends. That chapter of my life is closed, and NYC has nothing to offer for me moving forward.
NYC is still a great place to start your career. If you're young, hungry and hard working, you can get a lot done. However, I can't imagine settling down there.
Find this take interesting for a lot of reasons agree and disagree with some parts. For context, born and raised in Queens, worked in LA for 3 years after grad, move back recently. I lived in Santa Monica for two years and BH for one.
- the weather is undoubtedly better and that is most of what you pay for to get the mediterranean climate. However, the summers can get nasty and they are longer with the second one in October. NYC weather sucks a lot but when it is nice, it is so much nicer than LA especially with all the seasons (first autumn, first snow etc.).
- yeah you have to take the subway but lets not act like LA traffic is not real. To go from Santa Monica to WeHo which is a fairly common drive for people as that is where a lot of activity is takes anywhere from 1 - 1.5 hours anytime between 8am - 8pm (about 12 miles). Going 5 miles to the airport anytime between 8am - 7pm from Santa Monica to LAX is at least 45-1hr. With no reliable public transportation, you are mostly confined to your neighborhood as people don't want to be in a car all the time hence why people only want to stay in their respective areas. If you live in the valley, you are not hanging out in West LA everyday. I saw my friends who lived in Hollywood when I lived in SM about once or twice a month when they felt like making the trek. Going from Yankee Stadium to Coney Island is about 1.5 hours on the train and quite literally two different ends of the cities.
- NYC is not for you if you want a house and car plain and simple. Not really a great point of comparison. Even the wealthiest people I know live in apartments (when they could afford gigantic houses in any other city) because of the access NYC provides. Cost is all dependent on the person. If you eat out everyday and drop bottles on an analyst/assoc salary yeah it won't stretch far.
- LA is so much worse than NYC in safety. I lived in one of the prime spots of Santa Monica and there was a homeless encampment twenty feet below me. Saw a fair few in BH as well. LA homeless encampments in nice areas are quite a known issue. On schools, yeah public schools vary drastically regardless of what city you live in. NYC has public schools like Stuy, BxSci which are amongst the top schools in the country + the numerous prestigious privates. LA has a lot of cheaper private schools, but if we are being real the only two that hold a candle to the NYC elite schools like Dalton, Trinity, Horace Mann etc. are Harvard Westlake and Sierra Canyon which ultimately cost about the same.
- if you distill NYC's amenities down to museums and Broadway, you really did not explore or get to see too much in your time in NYC/you have a very narrow view of the cultural events in NYC. Yeah LA has better Mexican, Korean, and Japanese food but NYC has significantly better food in literally every other cuisine.
- Nature/Beach is a very specific location factor. SoCal has infinitely better beaches. Plenty of great hikes within a 1.5hr drive.
Culturally, I had a much more diverse friend group in NYC than LA from all socioeconomic statuses whereas in LA because driving is annoying people really did not leave their neighborhoods. If you want to compare the prime LA experiences, people who live in BH, SM, WeHo, West LA are not really leaving all that often so they tend to gravitate towards other folks in the same areas. A traditional home in those areas are easily going to run you 4mm+ as you defined it. If you live in the valley or east LA where a lot of nice 1-3mm homes, that is a rough drive to make regularly.
NYC is also easier to access the whole world. Easier flights to Europe while being only slightly worse to Asia.
The thread is mostly about the topic of wanting to stay in NYC past the early career phase. Having lived there for 25 years, starting from the age of 3, I had a great experience. The City shaped me as a person and as a professional. I've walked from Van Cortlandt Park in the Bronx, to Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn (it took ~11 hours). But it's important to note that priorities have obviously changed between being a teenager and young professional, to being a married adult. The once-great City has also changed, significantly for the worse.
Growing up, crime existed if you looked for it and were a troublemaker. Giuliani cleaned the city up, and Bloomberg kept it that way. This was peak NYC and everyone loved it. Today, the crime is palpable. You see it all around you and can't get away from it. I would encounter crazy/dangerous people on the train multiple times a week.
In LA, crime is highly segregated. It's possible to insulate yourself from it. I don't live in Santa Monica or WeHo, so I can't speak to that experience, and I don't often travel there. Instead, I live in Long Beach in a charming neighborhood where I don't really see homeless people, or interact with anyone shady. House prices are $800k-$2m here.
My commute to downtown is 20-45 minutes along the 405 -> 110. This is at 8 am, so definitely part of rush hour. I use the FastTrak lane so I can speed past the traffic at 80 mph. I carpool with my wife, so don't have to pay to use the lane.
As for the Santa Monica to WeHo slog, they're actually building a train tunnel there. It should lessen the street traffic considerably, as this is the busiest corridor in the entire city.
I get what you're saying about friends and hanging out, but I wasn't really hanging out with my friends more than 1-2x a month anyway in NYC. When you're married, working, and have family obligations, not to mention kids, this is par the course no matter where you live.
When I was in my late teens/early 20s, Brooklyn house parties were the shit. It was fun being out in the East Village till 3 am. Chaotic nights with drunk friends on the train were hilarious. But I don't care about that shit anymore. No one on their 30s really should unless they're some arrested development case.
As for schools, Stuy and BxSci are being gutted. They're being corrupted by woke curricula and rapidly dropping standards. You see, the schools aren't diverse enough, so it's time to bring them down a notch. Back when I was in HS, they were excellent options. Today, they're about on par with any mid-tier private school (of which there are plenty in LA). You don't need to send your kids to Harvard-Westlake to get into Harvard, provided that they have the necessary IQ, work ethic, and a safe environment.
Everything is changing so rapidly that many people are operating on outdated information as of 5 years ago. The things that indeed made NYC great are no longer there. Its a dying city and the trends don't point to anything good. That's why I bounced.
I’ll offer some additional perspective on the NJ suburbs. Some of the stops on the M&E train line are extremely popular with the “high finance” crowd looking for a nice, family-oriented lifestyle. From west to east, these would be Madison, Chatham, Summit, Short Hills (most expensive but lacks a proper downtown) / Millburn. Then continuing east toward the city you have Maplewood and South Orange which are “nice” towns though start to boarder rough areas, are a bit too lefty/crunchy for most, and their schools suck for some reason; same goes for Montclair which is farther north on a different train line but a relatively short commute into Penn Station.
Farther north you have towns like Saddle River which is very nice, and nearby Ridgewood which has a great downtown and train (albeit not direct into Penn station). Farther south you have Westfield which is another great option (great schools and downtown) but train terminates in Newark, which isn’t terrible if you work downtown. If you go to the shore, Rumson is a great town with a short drive to the ferry which is a comfortable, though long, ride to the city.
If you’re a real baller though there’s always Alpine, where I think the median home sale price is now >$4mm.
If you can afford living in Park Slope / Fort Greene, that strikes a nice balance of suburban 'safe' feeling but still accessible to Manhattan within 45 minutes by subway. Further South there are gorgeous mansions in Dyker heights that while are in the ~$4mm range, come with a ton of space, multiple garages etc. These are more like an hour to midtown but still closer than most of suburban NJ. Only issue is you'll still have to pay city tax.
Yes hands down in the city if I could afford it. I'm not a big fan of long commutes or owning a car (which is a depreciating asset anyways).
Besides Manhattan, I think a lot of people sleep on LIC - it's a quick train to Midtown and relatively speaking more affordable than Brooklyn by Prospect Park.
As someone else mentioned, the array of private school options in the city and boarding schools nearby absolutely blows the doors of LA. There are maybe 20 schools the quality of Harvard Westlake within 100 miles of Manhattan.
I will say the NYC suburbs would be a harder sell - nothing special about them versus a Boston/DC suburb except you lose a some NYC job opportunities. But even Bronxville/Manhasset are 30 min on the train alone, while that gets you in the outer suburbs, outside 128, in Boston. And property taxes in WC/LI are insane, essentially 1 private school tuition.
Agree on LIC but I find out it odd to assume your kids need to or definitely will get into the most prestigious boarding/private schools in NYC - not sure if that’s a useful selling point for people even on this board
Abso-fucking-lutely not staying in nyc long term
As soon as I hit my number I’m shoving off to one of the gazillion quiet corners in Europe where the average person has more culture in their little pinky than most New Yorkers have in their whole soggy body. From there it’s traveling around to random places and spending winters in the tropics. America is a business - good for making money but it’s not a place where people know how to live well.
I’m a NYC lifer. Love this city. Back when I was actively dating a dealbreaker was a transient person. Found a native NYer. This is our home.
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