If you compare all 4 of the Big 4 firms, is Deloitte the place to be for M&A work? How would you rank the Big 4 firms from best M&A (more deals, better comp, etc) group to worst?
Also side question, do the Big 4 have industry groups like banks have? (TMT, FIG, etc)
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Assuming this is for IB and not TAS, is this for the U.S. or another part of the world?
Isnt their "IB" service line just called M&A TAS?
Didn't work at Deloitte but if their internal structuring is anything like the Big 4 I worked at then TAS is most certainly not IB or corporate finance. The Big 4 do have small IB practices, but I don't think any of them call them TAS, that is its own thing. TAS typically includes some type of due diligence group, accounting advisory and sometimes a business valuations group. These groups are hired in addition to bankers on the deals. Diligence and valuations groups sometimes breakout by industry, the accounting advisory group builds expertise on types of transactions rather than industry groups. Make sure you know what you're applying for because if you end up in a traditional TAS group the pay and work is very different than IB.
No, Deloitte Corporate Finance (aptly "DCF"). TAS is QofE Due Diligence work
Yes Deloitte is the best
Deloitte acquired McColl partners and with it a pretty reputable mid-market operation. KPMG also has a decent corporate finance group. Of the 4, I've only ever had deals come in from Deloitte so I would say that they have stronger deal flow than the rest. Comp is equal to perhaps a bit below a more traditional bank from what I understand, with base being higher but bonus being lower. While I can't speak for all of the Big 4, I know that Deloitte has a healthcare group in my city (who get absolutely crushed btw) so it stands to reason that they have other industry coverage groups as well.
Do you know if the B4 firms encourage you to get a CPA even though you arent in their audit service lines? A friend told me that no matter which service line you're in, they always want you to get a CPA. That doesnt seem true but then again I've never at a B4 firm so I'm not really sure.
CPA is only required to be promoted to manager for the core accounting lines such as assurance (audit) and tax. It seems like a lot of people get the CPA or CFA in the TAS practices as well. For the actual B4 IB groups and Consulting, I know a couple of people that are in both and none of them has indicated that a CPA is necessary. Part of this may come from the fact that the IB and Consulting groups are often separate entities from the main firm. For example, Deloitte Consulting has different payscales and contracts from Deloitte & Touche. EY Capital Advisors is similarly a completely separate firm from EY.
Based on my personal experience, the true Deloitte IB-like group is called Deloitte Corporate Finance both in the U.S. and in Canada.
In Europe as well. However, usually the big 4 has an umbrella group (called "M&A" or "Deals") under which both corporate finance and transaction services falls. Under Corporate finance you then usually have the lead M&A team, a debt advisory team (MM private placements, LevFin, and structured finance), and usually a modelling and valuations group.
Hows EY M&A team in Asia compared to the other 3?
For U.S. only, Deloitte Corporate Finance is probably the best of the bunch mainly because it was basically formed by acquiring a fairly reputable bank (McColl).
The next tier down is probably a wash between PwC Corporate Finance and E&Y Capital Advisors. Though note in the U.S. these are small 10-15 MD teams that maybe do like ~$20M-$50M of advisory revenue per year. For size comparison the EB's have 100+ MDs and do 500M to $1Bn+ in advisory revenue per year.
KPMG I believe is the smallest
Most of these have industry groups (which may only be a single MD and Director) since it is basically a requirement in the U.S. market to win mandates.
Internationally the story is very different - many of the Big 4 are serious middle market players in Europe and Asia (the Bairds, Houlihans, Harris Williams, etc. of EU/Asia)
That is incorrect. KPMG is the 2nd best in the U.S. and has the most established team. EY is much smaller and PwC was non-existent until recently. I've seen E&Y repping sub-$5mm deals. PwC may have poached some decent bankers as I saw them sell side on a nice industrial business that went PE.
If PwC has dramatically staffed up, then this may be flipped a bit, but:
Deloitte
(big gap)
KPMG
(smaller gap)
PWC EY
Based on what I've seen, though we don't run into any of them that often.
Not sure what it's like in the US, but on the global scale, it goes like this:
KPMG > PwC > EY > Deloitte
Don't trust me? Just google the mid-market M&A league table. In fact, on the global scale, KPMG has been #1 for god knows how many years (in terms of # of deals only, not counting deal value)
In the UK I heard KPMG CF is so far ahead of the rest of Big 4 that it's considered a very solid MM "bank"
That said, it's very location based. In my city, PwC has the best M&A team, then a big gap, KPMG, then a big gap again, EY and Deloitte.
Funny how geography changes everything. In Canada, KPMG isn’t even invited to pitches, while PwC, Deloitte and EY fight it off, with PwC having a slightly bigger share and the other two being pretty equal.
Yep. I was surprised when I found out that EY is the #1 lead M&A advisor in India, and the biggest deals in China are not advised by big Western firms such as GS but by Chinese banks etc.
Location MATTERS.
Do you have any knowledge of the UK KPMG Strategy and transaction modelling group? From what I understand it's under their strategy team rather than Cf but do some deal modelling and are similar to Deloitte BMG group
Thanks
Just to add to my previous comment: it seems that in the US KPMG had the most # of deals out of all Big 4 in 2017, then PwC.
Deloitte and EY didn't even appear in the top 50 list. However, it's for 2017 only, maybe in previous years Deloitte was stronger.
http://dmi.thomsonreuters.com/Content/Files/4Q2017_MandA_MidMarket_FA_R…
Also from the list you can see that Big 4 are pretty much non-existent in the US, while they are very strong lead M&A advisors in Europe and Asia.
But anyway, I digressed. In my country, Big 4 M&A teams sponsor the CFA (along with ACCA and ACA - UK's equivalent of US's CPA), but most managers and above I see have the CFA charter. The hours at Big 4, while still bad, are not as bad as that at an IB, so you can still squeeze in few hours here and there to study for the CFA. Obviously the best path is joining a BB IB or an EB right from the get go, however, I still consider the Big 4 M&A experience + CFA charter path not too shabby.
I appreciate trying to bring data into the discussion, but you have to look at this in overall context. Deal volume isn't accurate based on the imputed fees, which tells me that these groups may have been "advising" in some capacity, but were not running a traditional process.
Each of the firms on this list has its own story. I can tell you first hand that Deloitte has been marketing a few $30+ million EBITDA businesses and is by far the most active.
I would rank them by whoever is willing to pay me the most for my time. Activity without monetary gain is a losers contest.
PwC, Deloitte and KPMG are all competitive within the UK middle market M&A space. KPMG is probably the best of the big 4 in central Europe.
yea agreed
They don't do industry groups like banks, but at least with other Big4s (I only know pwc and KPMG firsthand) they are split into something like auditing and consulting and then consulting has subgroups based on function rather than industry.
Again, don't know KPMG but it will vary from country to country and region to region. pwc is the strongest in the UK and Hong Kong, but not so much in other parts of Asia or America.
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