FT Tier 2 bank in NYC (SocGen/Mizuho/BNP) or Off-Cycle Internship at BB (GS/MS) in Frankfurt
Hello, I am in my last year of university. Would you recommend me to take a 2-3 month internship at a BB in Frankfurt after graduation and hope I get an FT offer or go straight to NYC to start FT at a Tier 2 bank. Taking into consideration everything including the opportunity to live and work in NYC/Frankfurt (not a US/EU citizen), pay, culture, exit opp, deal flow, and so forth. Thank you.
Is it GS or MS?
MS is the craziest sweatshop with arguably the worst culture in Frankfurt. A few years ago a whole analyst class quit because of one MD.
The dude got fired but it hasn't improved at all. On a deal last year (those who know know :) ) the poor analyst frequently sent mails at Sunday/Monday AM.
If it's GS take it. Good culture at least among analysts/interns. If you hate your internship, plenty of opportunities to go elsewhere in Frankfurt or London for FT without problems
If you only think about career, a top BB will be your biggest boost but if you are dead set on NYC probably not. However, if you are really well ranked you can get a rotation to the US.
Is this MD still around?
Thought he left.
Thank you for the reply.
What are the chances for a return offer for the MS/GS internships in Frankfurt (of course if performing well)? Or are return offers not as common for off-cycles in Germany?
But isn't career-wise and pay wise NYC much better, even if it is just a Tier 2 BB?
If you do a good job and survived the internship at MS you mostly get an FT offer and there is no difference between summer or off-cycle as they always have 2-3 interns throughout the year consistently. Do you speak German? Otherwise I would highly suggest not going to Frankfurt.
GS only runs off-cycles in Germany and MS both SA/OC. Chances are therefore very high should you perform well
Also don't thin Mizuho or BNP are well-respected players in the US for IBD. These are much more DCM-focused platforms.
How about SocGen? They are strong in LevFin and Natural Resources I heard. Isn't BNP good in M&A in the US?
I do not speak German. May I ask why?
Oh. How come you got an offer without speaking German?
Without German, it's certainly challenging but immigration is a lot nicer in Germany than in the US!
They conducted the interview in English, so yeah. Not sure if it will be a disadvantage if I start FT in Frankfurt vs FT in NYC but Tier 2?
Europe is tier 2
Have you considered where you want to live? Spending at least 2 years in Frankfurt without knowing anybody or speaking German doesn’t sound too fun. Also significantly lower comp once you factor in 6 months of off-cycle slave wage.
Surprised by the responses. Seems like a no-brainer to take NYC offer.
Could you please elaborate on why it is a no-brainer?
NYC is the world’s epicenter of high finance while Frankfurt only has a local reach
Agree. IMO the only argument for him going to Frankfurt would be "prestige", which is a dumb reason anyways. Why turn away a great opportunity in a good bank in NYC to try to get GS/MS in Frankfurt when you don't even speak german?
I have two immediate reactions. On one hand, you have an option to go to GS/MS which is the best you can get for IB. On the other hand you have a FT offer which is the end goal of all internships. My advice would be to speak to as many people from GS/MS in Frankfurt to get an idea of what the off-cycle to FT conversion rate is and make your decision based on that. Off-cycle interns don't get as much love as the regular SA programs (although I know off-cycle internships are much more common in Germany than other places). In the end, if you're good enough to get a GS/MS offer (albeit, for an internship) you should be able to lateral after 12-18 months if you really want to. May not be GS/MS, but certainly around that calibre. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...
Can I DM you? I am also applying for internships in Frankfurt. Your advice will be valuable.
Thanks in advance!
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