Honest Opinions on Deutsche Bank
Just want some opinions, preferably from some people at DB, on the outlook. I'm going to be interning there next summer, and I'd like to know what I could expect in the next few years. I've really liked the people I've talked to there, but I've been told to recruit elsewhere for full time even if I'm given a return offer.
It can't be as bad as people on this forum paint it to be right? It's still a BB (though perhaps arguably now), and I'll still be getting paid a good amount of money (more than the majority of people in the US).
So is working at DB a huge mistake? Sure, things are better at other banks, but will anything truly terrible happen if I stick with DB? Be honest with me.
Thanks.
Dude just relax and enjoy the semester, then go out and kill it next year. DB is still top 15 in the league tables.
It would be toward the bottom of the BBs for me in terms of preference, but I would take it over any MM firm without hesitation. If you really like the people there, go for it. Don't underestimate the importance of fit
I love how I say my personal opinion about my firm preferences and get hit with MS for it.
Is it actually that good that any MM would be worse? What about EBs if all you cared about was prestige from people outside of finance who have not heard of Evercore?
That was just my personal preference. I too have met quite a few people that I like at Deutsche. I would likely take EBs over Deutsche. Especially Moelis. I just really like the people I met at Moelis. I haven't met anyone from other EBs though.
I'm friends with some DB guys and have spoken to some seniors there. As an IB analyst, you will be worked into the dirt. As long as the hiring freeze is still in effect, it won't get any better in terms of work life balance. Every junior is currently looking for the nearest door, which makes working conditions worse. Bright side, you will be auto promoted to an associate in 2 years (at least the ones I know), be paid very well, and work with some really good people (in my experience). DB still has a strong alumni base and will provide a nice network going forward. Moving to the time warner center will also be cool.
They still have awesome levfin, loan capital markets, and Real Estate operations. The rest of the shop is still respectable and will probably continue to be respectable. Definitely not a bad gig. Just don't expect to have a lot of fun.
As a current analyst, the sentiment above I think is fair. DB is not a world-beater by any means but if you are not insecure about prestige and memes, it’s still a strong shop when it comes to certain areas (LevFin, real estate, HCIT, business services). You’ll certainly get a better experience out of it than any MM, and in my opinion the people at DB are much much better than what I’ve heard from friends at other banks. It was one of the biggest pleasant surprises when I joined.
Would caveat the above comments by noting LevFin and FSG work/life at DB is actually on average very good relative to the average IB group across the street. But agree that certain groups do get grinded very hard (IND, HC in particular). Hiring freeze is only through the end of 2019 and doesn’t apply to the analyst program, those groups are just more grindy in general.
What do you mean by HCIT and business services?
Good stuff. Thanks for the info. Tired of all these interns/students clowning on DB as they fall over themselves trying to get into tier 3 shops
How would you compare DB to MMs like Jefferies and HL generally speaking?
You posted anonymously, but could you pm me? Interested to chat with you as a 2019 grad.
DB no longer a BB
All jokes aside, just kill it during your summer and FT recruit elsewhere.
Are you a student?
I swear most of these jokes come from students with nothing lined up. While DB has deteriorated signficantly over the last decade, it is still relevant in many areas as mentioned above. If you really liked the people there and think you'll be a good fit, you're not making a mistake.
They’re Deutschebags
Non-target and I've heard of at least one person in my college that got hired to S&T full time. Yes, that is after the cuts that happened. So the firm is still hiring mostly likely the layoffs were simply a restructuring and not much more.
DB is obviously not the best place to be in, but at the end of the day DB is a BB and that alone means a lot. For those who call it no longer a BB, you must have a misconception of what BB really means. They are still active in their business and as long as you are in the right group, any analyst would get sufficient experience that the market expects you to get out of through the analyst program.
Bottom line, DB >>> MM
But how would you compare DB to top MMs like Jefferies and HL?
HL restructuring is a completely different game, but otherwise the coverage universe in terms of company size would be very different. But Im not too familiar with HL and others can comment here. Jefferies is a bit unique relative to MM, though. They have ability to do deals sometimes at BB capacity. Not fair to use DB vs Jefferies as BB vs MM, at which point it probably depends on you.
Bump
The comments above are pretty on point. I used to work at DB and would like to share my thoughts.
It's not too bad to work at DB. To me what separates DB from other MM banks is that it still gets front page deals from time to time due to its global scale and connections at the senior level. LevFin, Industrials, REGEL are still very relevant. FIG, HC, Sponsors, TMT get deals too. I think M&T is top 3 on league table this year. The new head of US M&A used to be a senior partner at Goldman. While the sheer number of deals (especially high-profile ones) are not as high as it used to be, you can still make a solid experience out of it. But more importantly, people are generally very nice and some of them are really smart.
However, the most relevant issue for any juniors at DB is the loss talents. The US advisory business is not going anywhere. But no matter what positive messages executives & senior MDs convey in group meetings and internal emails, the morale is low. People are constantly thinking about jump ships, and turnover is extremely high. Just three years ago, major feeder schools of the analyst class include princeton, wharton, chicago, duke, georgetown, etc. This year, most of them are gone because either alums are gone or prospects not willing to commit. Whether DB is gonna recover or not, it will not be able to reverse this trend at least in the next few years. Banking is a people business. This is just how it is.
I guess my point is that always look out for your own sake. DB is still a place where you get can a solid experience and is still bette than any MM in my opinion. However, you should be fully aware of certain facts associated with DB at this point and should not expect the bank to fix itself anytime soon (better be conservative in this case). No matter how much you like the people or enjoy your summer experience, your own development is the single most important thing at the end of the day. You never know if your fulltime are gonna leave someday. So do your job, enjoy the summer, and try FT to somewhere else. DB is still gonna be a good name for FT recruiting. You will not regret the hustle.
Outside of finance, are names like DB and UBS recognizable? I feel like most people like doctors, lawyers, etc. would only know GS, JPM or Citi as banks...
No but who really cares. I tell people I work in banking and they think I’m some teller at xyz bank
Let's be honest. Most people outside of the finance know Citi and JPM because of their retail/credit cards. They probably don't even know what investment banks do.
What would people say about DB London?
Is it definitely above MMs like Jefferies, HL, RBC, Macquarie?
Instagram Meme accounts got your tongue? Still a reputable firm for a summer role and move on if it doesn't seem like upward mobility or deal flow is there
You’re a moron if you get career advice from finance meme pages…
DB is the top BB when it comes to lending/financing/credit business. Anyone who says otherwise has no clue of what they are talking about.
Credit business I know personally is best on the street by far, no shop is even close. Bigger risk appetite than any other bank. Think they made 1.3bn usd FY21.
Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-10-21/deutsche-bank-s-top-…
DB has let go of many people in their leveraged finance teams. I think they were the first bank to lay off junior analysts. Culture sucks. I had a negative experience during lateral interviews and swore I will never apply for a role at that bank ever again. Not only did they not want to break apart the interview sessions, but they had me do 7 interviews in one day and then never got back to me with a status update. FUCK DB
Sorry they didn't get back to you but I love the culture & people at DB, especially compared to people/culture at other banks.
Duh - what do you expect the culture to be like at a place that generates $$$.
like accept it, people that makes money are dicks due to ego..
recommend you either get thicker skin or apply to Res Cross
+1 SB
can you expand on their lending/financing/credit business pedigree
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