How big of a difference is 3.65 vs 3.5?
I'm a junior at a semi-target. I have a 3.65 and have solid internships, I am going to a somewhat well known buyside shop next summer. I feel like I missed out a lot on "the college experience" so I'm currently pledging a frat. That combined with the fact I got a girlfriend, started working for a startup, and added a double major means my grades have started to look dicey. I feel like the pledgeship process has been a huge time comittment and has distracted me from school. If my grades continue how they are rn I'm looking at finishing with an overall GPA of 3.5. How bad would this be compared to the 3.65 I've got right now? I'm looking to recruit full time for both banking and buyside.
Also for those who are probably wondering why don't I just go FT at the place my summer internship is, I've heard its quite hard to get a return offer and they make up for this by making introductions for you at other firms.
0.15
I was hoping this would be the first comment I see +1
as all things are in life...
3.5 and 3.65 are not a big difference. one could even say negligible
but imagine a scenario where you are a finalist for a coveted role where the other candidate is your clone with 3.65 gpa vs. your 3.5... you know the outcome.
Good interview can -- but will not necessarily -- overcome the grade point discrepancy. You're interviewing with people, not algorithms.
lol in my experience interviewing well is way more important than grades (as long as you're 3.5+)
Higher GPA is almost always better even if it’s a shit major (if you’re at a target). Just do something finance related and forget the double major dude. Try to keep that GPA as high as possible without having to make too many sacrifices but also cutting loose with things that aren’t necessarily that important.
Saying this because I seen what a high GPA does in the recruiting process, makes shit so much easier for getting that first round.
Also get your clout within your frat up a little, if there’s a few banking bros they’ll understand and let you get away with having to a few less stupid rituals.
Lol a 3.7 in engineering outweighs any non stem 4.0 ever in existence.
Try to get at least a 3.55 because a ~3.6 is less questionable. 90% of the points basically. Enjoy college but make sure you interview well
Without being too much of a jackass. If you want to do banking I would try to raise your GPA not lower it. I used to do a lot of resume screening for my prior EB and a 3.5 would be an auto ding but honestly so would 3.65 unless it was a target and/or a really tough major. The amount of resumes we got with 3.85+ was insane and even if you are a better candidate, it is easier for the resume reviewer to pick the 3.8+ rather than the 3.5
GPA is generally just an HR filter, as long as you're above the posted minimum requirement you're good. You might get some shitheads that actually think that kind of thing matters but you generally don't want to work for those kind of people anyway.
3.65 doesn’t exist, it’s 3.7 So if a difference of .2 which is decently significant.
Have not worked in IB so take w a grain of salt, but you need a GPA that’ll get you in the door (imo bare min 3.5). Ultimately most important is how well you interview + ability to speak to the little work experience you do & will have. There will be so many people w higher GPAs, you'll likely have to find another way to stand out. And that's okay. Generally speaking though, 3.5+ is solid. I'd make certain you achieve that
I will say in hindsight, I took a few "interesting" classes (unrelated to major) that not only took up a lot of time but also hurt my gpa. Sad to say but if done again, I wouldn't take them and would focus on major / maxing GPA. If worried about GPA and want to enjoy college life, I'd seriously consider whether both majors are necessary + look at other classes that might weigh you down. Drop em. Real life experience > classroom (don't mean another night of partying, I mean reps via internship, club involvement, etc)
One other point as I was in a fraternity. The frat life will absolutely distract and take away, but it's also great fun. Just be serious about school and work first. Perhaps an obvious comment, but you'll look back and realize there was a party every night...and that doesn't mean you needed to go. Your friends will try and drag you along and guilt you into another night out. You don't have to do that. Put your education first and don't negotiate with yourself. If you prioritize properly and don't blow time on the couch doing nothing, you'll have plenty of time to balance school, work, and fun
I would say it is a big difference, because a 3.65 can be rounded to a 3.7 and 3.7 vs 3.5 is a pretty big difference. However, it really depends on every circumstance. You might have internship experiences, major difficulty, brand name school etc. At the end of the day, you are going to get dinged at shops that value GPA, but at other shops, your 3.5 might be overlooked based on your overall gpa and interviewing skills.
As long as you keep it above 3.55 you can round to 3.6, so 0.5 difference. If you account for rounding 3.65 to 3.7, then the difference is 0.1.
The GPA requirement is just to screen out resumes. It used to be a minimum of 3.2 but was raised to 3.5 after the housing crash. If you make a 3.5 you meet the "requirement". There is not sliding scale for non targets as well. Hiring is not like college admissions. The 4.0 target student is not always going to get the offer. Once you meet the GPA minimum, you should fill your resume with internships and relevant extra-curricular activities to prove that you have the skills to work in banking. After this, it is all all about how you do on the interview. Practice interviewing. It is not a natural conversation and no one is good at interviewing in the beginning. A non target with a sub 3.0 could get the job over you because of impressive internships and interviewing skills.
You may have clueless recruiters and first year hardo analyst who haven't yet experienced the realities of banking needing to have a near perfect gpa on the resume. You can also have the opposite. You could have another analyst who would not want to higher someone with a 3.5+ gpa because it is assumed that you did not have a social life and is all finance and nothing else. This is why networking is so crucial so you can overcome any weird biases.
Get the best gpa you can but not at the risk of your social life, mental/physical health, internships/relevant work experiences and networking. Again, a 2.6 non-target could get an offer over an 4.0 target. I have seen it happen. So the answer is no. There is no difference. Get relevant work experience, network and have fun.
What are you going to tangibly do with this information? Give up on improving your grades?
3.5 is qualitatively worse than 3.65. 3.7 looks a lot better than 3.5. It certainly won't make things impossible for you, particularly if you have very strong internship credentials - I had worse, but it will make it harder. If you have the opportunity to do better, put the effort in to do better. I don't really understand what this question does for you.
Asking cause I'm thinking of dropping from the fraternity to focus on my grades.
So that is at least concrete.
That's a decision you'll have to weigh yourself. In answer to your question again, 3.5 is materially worse than 3.65. Will it kill you? No. But it will make things harder for you. If you're sufficiently confident in the quality of your network and your internship experience, then you may be OK. If not, then it is a real risk.
It seems like it should be possible to juggle fraternity social commitments and doing well in your schoolwork, but again, that's really only something you can judge.
Try for the best gpa you can. Just do not neglect your social life, internships, networking, getting relevant skill sets, health, taking challenging classes and challenging yourself. If your fraternity makes you your happiest self to the point you light up like a Christmas Tree then stay in your fraternity. If your fraternity is toxic and causes you anxiety and depression, then you should quit.
Will getting a 3.5 as oppose to a 3.65 will be dramatically harder to get interviews? No. That is not how hiring works. The gpa minimum is used by recruiting to reduce the amount of resumes. That's it. Resumes below the 3.5 get screened out and resumes above 3.5 move forward. Even those with very low gpa have gotten interviews. Again hiring does not work like college admissions. Once you get the interview, your gpa is worthless, even with a 4.0. What matters in the interview is showing confidence, resourcefulness, understanding what investment bankers do, and also hinting that you want to stay for at least two years. Managers in finance want you to stay for at least a year and half. It is a burden to replace someone and train them while picking up the slack of the employee that quit. Flight risk is a true fear and no gpa will predict that.
When it comes down to all things being equal, it will be based on fit, chemistry, and how you interview. This will very from person to person as well as group to group. We all do not have the same personality. This whole narrative of your life is over if you get below a 3.7 and you will be homeless with a 3.4 that I see on WSO is such bulls..t. Your manager hires you because you have and skill and other potential skills to make their life easier. These managers have seen so many perfect gpa types crash and burn after the first month. You will be okay. I hope this helps.
PM me if you want to talk ab this. Experienced a similar situation
Same boat. Dropped from 3.8 to 3.5 at graduation. Luckily It didn’t affect my offer. I don’t plan on PE recruiting as an An1 though. I’m in a 3 year program. If I did recruit as an An2, they’d pay less attention to gpa since I’d have dealwork right?
3.5 GPA means you can forget about FO, might as well go work BO... I would break up with GF and stop pledging immediately
For many banks 3.5 is the hard floor for GPA allowance. You really don't want to be putting yourself in a tough spot by being just on the floor.
The difference between 3.65 and 3.5 is far worse than the difference between 3.95 and 3.8 .
Had a 3.5 and got interviews, but would recommend you to stay in the 3.7ish range. Grades really shouldn't slip materially during pledgeship (even with gf) if you're driven, motivated, etc. Just going to have to allocate your time wisely/proactively
Junior pledging a frat isn't worth it
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